Do i need more light?

[Xirxes]

I am not happy with the plant growth in my tank.

I have 125 gallon discus community, pH 6.8-7.0, heavy CO2 single diffusor at about 2 bubbles/second, adding flourish original about 3 caps twice a week, using RO/DI water with equilibrium, GH of about 7dH. Ammo/rites=0, nitrates currently about 30PPM but working on getting that down. Temp= 82-83F. Using Fert tabs under all swords.

Cannot grow baby tears or any red frilly plants really. I have 4x 36" t5ho bulbs @6700K currently on for 12 hours a day. Do i need 4 more x 24"? I can get 2 more retrofits to fit in, but 2 more 36" will not fit.

Want to make sure that this will solve my problem, and wondering if i have a "high light" tank or not currently.

[Bobears]

All I can tell you is that your lighting is NOT high lighting. From what I can tell you have 1.24 watts per gallon. I think high lighting is more than 3 watts per gallon. Don't forget it also depends on the depth of the tank as to how effective the lighting is, the deeper, the more intense light needed. Maybe someone can give you more info on the plants, but that's just my 2 cents.

[Surferdave]

Absolutely. 1.5 watts per gallon is not considered high lighting. With regards to the plants most red leafy plants along with ground cover plants such as glosso, baby tears and riccia usually need at the least 2.5 watts per gallon to grow well. I am currently running 2 watts per gallon and have problems with the red plants. To be honest a well maintained low light tank is much more manageable than a high lighted tank, with all the maintenance with cleaning after Discus, who wants to be trimming too. lol. Good luck.

David

[smsimcik]

I agree with the above replies. If you want to grow baby tears and red plants you will need to double your light, CO2 and fertilizer. Or, you could keep the set up you have and grow lower light plants like anubius, java fern, crypts, bolbitus, dwarf sagittaria and even amazon swords. I agree with David that it would be alot less maintanence to keep what you've got. You're not going to be able to grow high light plants with your current setup.


Steve

[Xirxes]

My electricity bill is currently 180 a month WITHOUT any A/C, so i think i will be heading towards low light plants :)

Thanks for all of the advice...I will be sticking with the larger leafed plants from now on.

[Ed13]

Not sure why the above posters seem to think you have low light:):confused: just kidding guys:) don't get mad at me

4 x 39w=156w. Sure it does equal to 1.248 w/g and is not "super bright" but that should be enough lumens PUR and Par. Remember guys he has HOT5 lighting, if he has individual parabolic reflectors, is effectively cooling the bulbs and has good and fresh bulbs. He should have plenty of light to at least grow baby tears and many red plants densly. I have a friend with 4 X 54w HOT5( 2.4 w/g)on a crappy fixture with not so good bulbs on a 90g(24" high) with almost no water changes and no ferts and little to no CO2 and the red plants are super red and the baby tears grows like glosso with so much light. So lets get back to the drawing board on this one.

What I would do
-If you can/want add the bulbs please do;), but adding good reflectors is just as important if not more, it also will be a long term cheaper option. I don't understand why not 2 more 36" bulbs though if you can fit 4x 24":confused:
-See if new bulbs(how old are they?) or changing the spectrum will help, 6500k while good for growth won't show red colors good. Try a red inducing bulb maybe a pink bulb or something lik GE 3500k.
-try adjusting water clarity and other water issues. For example 30ppm for nitrates unless targeted should not be the case in a planted tank at least it never was on mine even when I tried:D.

We do need more info on the set up though.

[Xirxes]

So i have 2 units with 2x24W t5ho 24" from my last 4 foot tank, and they were pretty pricey, so i am going to try and fit those in. They each have one 6700K and one pink, so it should help with color as well.

Water is pretty clear, with UV sterilizer. Nitrates are from overfeeding im sure, and i have cut back on feeding and increased to 2x 30G water changes a week to get rid of the problem since noticing it.

I will fit the new lights tomorrow and see how good they look.

Thanks for the help all, will keep informed.

[Apistomaster]

I am a big fan of T-5 lighting although all my experience is with normal output tubes.
Their efficiency throws off the conventional wisdom when it comes to comparing them to equivalent lengths of T-8 or T-12 tubes. They seem to produce nearly equivalent lumens with less wattage. I assume the same holds true for the High Output T-5 tubes.

Having said the above, I tend to agree that you should either increase the total lighting or opt for less demanding plants. Most of the plants you want also seem to best in fairly soft (low KH) water.
Something like 4KH would be better. Given the height of a 125 gal tank, low growing plants need some intense lighting reaching the botttom in order to thrive. Most red plants, especially the red leaved stemmed plants are very light greedy. I think you are close enough that with what lighting you proposed adding you should be able to grow the plants you like.
If they seem to do be growing but not quite as well as you hope, I would try add a couple more hours a day before totally upgrading to a new system.
T-5 lamps don't seem to have the same diminishing output curve typical fluorescent have. They seem to lose less intensity over their usable life time and then just burn out. Conventional fluorescents lose much of their effectiveness in as little as six months but the lamps themselves continue to burn for years.

[scolley]

I did some really undependable measurements on my own HO T5's, and came to a personal conclusion that I still work with. That is... if they are well reflected, a 1.35 multiplier is appropriate for equating the light with typical WPG numbers.

For instance, if someone said they had 2 WPG with a really nice, well reflected HO T5 rig, I'd regard that as 2.7 WPG.

But that's just my own flawed research. But one thing I can tell you for CERTAIN. Some multiplier < 1 and > 1.75 is needed for well reflected HO T5's. You just gotta figure out what that number is, and make your decisions accordingly.

[Xirxes]

So upon my install today of the additional lighting, the ballast for 2 of the 4 36" bulbs fried on me, and one of the two 2x24" t5ho fixtures died as well!!!

So until tomorrow i have one side with 2x 36" 6700k T5ho, with a dead 2x24", and the other side has 2x24" one 10,000K and one pink, with dead 36" 6700K's!

Will get a ballast and new unit tomorrow, looking for some really killer increase in growth.

Thanks for all the advice, and i will look to get my gH down to about 5dH and see if that helps.

[Ed13]

So upon my install today of the additional lighting, the ballast for 2 of the 4 36" bulbs fried on me, and one of the two 2x24" t5ho fixtures died as well!!!

So until tomorrow i have one side with 2x 36" 6700k T5ho, with a dead 2x24", and the other side has 2x24" one 10,000K and one pink, with dead 36" 6700K's!

Will get a ballast and new unit tomorrow, looking for some really killer increase in growth.

Thanks for all the advice, and i will look to get my gH down to about 5dH and see if that helps.
Check your wiring and properly ground those ballasts, reflectors and all. Too much dead ballasts to be coincidence.

If looking for new ballasts, IceCaps are some of the best, expensive but good and they will overdrive those bulbs.

[Wahter]

Are you adding any fertilizer for the plants through the water column? ie. liquid fertilizers? I've found that plants seem to do better when there are nutrients in the water (even when they are planted in nutrient rich substrates). They seem to prefer taking in nutrients from the water than through the roots. Since you're using RO/DI water, there's probably not much left in terms of iron, magnesium, potassium, etc... for the plants.



Water is pretty clear, with UV sterilizer.

If you're using a UV sterilizer, that will break the chelators in liquid fertilizers and not allow the plants much of a chance to take in the fertilizers (if you are dosing once a week). I'm experimenting with dosing liquid fertilizers once every other day.


HTH,


Walter

[Xirxes]

Re-wired today, got a bulk type ballast, and just replaced it within the current housing for the two bulb setup.

Also got a new fixture for the new additions, so now they are BOTH UP!

Now i have 119 watts of T5HO on each side of the 125, for a total of 238 watts (almost 300 with that friendly 1.35 multiplier mentioned above).

I should be in the high light range now (I hope! no more room!).

Very familiar with the icecap overdrive, but the price of the fast bulb replacement is not worth it to me.

**EDIT** i have been adding 3 caps (15 ml) of flourish original twice a week, after the 30G water changes.

[Ed13]

Are you adding any fertilizer for the plants through the water column? ie. liquid fertilizers? I've found that plants seem to do better when there are nutrients in the water (even when they are planted in nutrient rich substrates). They seem to prefer taking in nutrients from the water than through the roots. Since you're using RO/DI water, there's probably not much left in terms of iron, magnesium, potassium, etc... for the plants.

I've noticed the same. I rarely added root ferts.

[smsimcik]

Don't forget to increase your CO2 and Flourish with all your new light or you may be growing more algae than plants.

Steve

[Xirxes]

Pics of new light, plants are quite green since the upgrade!

http://i24.photobucket.com/albums/c39/NicholeS29/newlights.jpg

[Ed13]

I'm glad is working out, but I am a bit concerned with the safety of those cables, please be careful!

[fxie]

I have 4x54w HO T5s with Sunlife Supply reflectors going into a 135gal tank, no CO2, and once a week dry dosing of ferts. This works out to be 1.7 w/gal. Although I can't seem to grow red plants very well, I do have three 24" tall amazon swords that shoot out new leaves every couple of days. The vallisneria in my tank need to be trimmed back 6" every week, and are still 6' long and have leaves almost one inch wide. Surprisingly, I'm even able to grow Blyxa Japonica fairly well. If you have CO2 going in, I think you will be perfectly fine. Try to find some reflectors as well, you will definitely notice the difference :D