scolley
07-07-2008, 07:50 PM
I recently set up an auto-water change system for my 29g that I'm using as a quarantine for some new fish.
But in this thread (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=64796) there seemed to be some interest in how I set up the auto water change in my 29g. It's not pretty. And it could fail. But for the few months I'll be using in, I think the risk is low. It works pretty easily... I don't touch it. It just does a 50% w/c for me once each morning, and once each evening. It would be easy to set it up to do more, or less, as needed.
The "system" is simple, having four main components:
Control Equipment
Drain equipment
Fill equipment
Aging "Tank"
THE CONTROL EQUIPMENT
Everything is controlled by three digital timers. One timer controls the drain process. One controls the fill process. And I even have one shut off my my main filter while I'm draining and filling, because the fish seem to be bothered by all the extra water movement, and that helps minimize it. In my particular setup the drain process is 10 minutes, the fill process is 12. I've got the timers synchronized to the same time. So at 9 AM (and 9 PM) one timer shuts off the main filter. A couple of minutes after that, another timer starts the drain, and lets that run for 10 minutes. Then a minute after that finishes, a third timer starts the fill process, and lets that fun for 12 minutes. And a minute or two after that finishes, the first timer turns the main filter back on.
It's worth noting that the drain and fill timers need to be plugged into either the same wall socket, or into the same power strip. You do not want to risk losing power to one and not the other. They either need to be both woking, or both not working.
I prefer the Intermatic DT27C (http://www.intermatic.com/Default.asp?action=prod&pid=9231&did=5&cid=43&sid=114) timers because the buttons are covered, so you don't have to worry about something getting changed accidentally. And it has a battery backup, if you lose power, if never forgets the time, or it's programming.
THE DRAIN EQUIPMENT
To get the water out of the tank, I've got a simple little Aquaclear PH301 (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19862/si1378644/cl0/aquaclearpowerhead301) powerhead stuck halfway up the side of the tank on the inside. It's got a 3/8" ID hose that connects to the outflow of the powerhead, up and out of the tank and over to a drain I have in the same room. So when the timer turns the drain powerhead on, it sucks water out of the tank, and pushes it to the drain. While the drain timer leaves the powerhead on for 10 minutes, it actually only takes water out of the tank for about 7 minutes. Once the water level gets low enough to start sucking up a little air with the water, it tries to push more water, but can't. I let it spend the last 3 minutes of the drain cycle trying, but actually doing nothing. And because it is sucking up some water, but not much, it does not burn out.
This extra time is deliberate. Because if I ever drain LESS water than the amount that is going to be pumped back in, the tank is going to overflow. And since I can depend on the fact that the same amount of water is going back each time, I want to make sure that AT LEAST that much is removed first. The extra time on the drain process is just a little bit of of caution, just to make double sure there is enough time to drain every thing that is supposed to drain.
THE FILL EQUIPMENT
This is simple. It's just a Eheim Universal 1048 Hobby pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~pumps_eheim_universal_ho bby_powerheads.html) sitting on the bottom of my aging tank that pumps water up a 3/8" ID tube into the tank. It's on a timer, and starts right after the drain is finished, so it always pumps up the same amount of water at just the right time.
It's possible that some powerheads may have been able to do this. But since the aging tank is several feet below the aquarium, I thought that extra head pressure might take a hefty little pump like this one.
And it's important to note... the fill process is always 12 minutes. But the amount of water that is pumped in 12 minutes could vary. I always start the process with the aging tank full. But if it were not full, there would not be as much head pressure, and less water would be pumped. Or if I raised my aging tank up higher (relative to the aquarium) the total head pressure would be less, and I'd pump MORE water. That would be bad. But as long as my fill process always starts with a full tank. And if I don't go moving the aging tank, it will always pump a nice predictable quantity of water.
THE AGING "TANK"
To age my water I bought a 30 gallon trash can. The water coming into the trash can is from my tap water. I connected some RO/DI tubing to our home's cold water lines using a saddle-valve tap (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1319~idCategor y~FIRORARP~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-RO_Unit_Plumbing_Parts~vendor~.html). That tubing runs to two DI canisters - like these (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1191~idCategor y~FIRORARC~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-Replacment_Canister__Housings~vendor~.html). The water line goes into one canister, that canister connects to the next canister, and the final canister is connected to the 30 gallon trash can.
The first of the two canisters has a 5 micron carbon matrix filter (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1133~idCategor y~FIRORPCB~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Replacement_Filters-Carbon_Block_Cartridges~vendor~.html) in it. This caches big stuff in the water, and strips out the chlorine in it. The second canister is a 0.5 micron cartridge (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1131~idCategor y~FIRORPCB~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Replacement_Filters-Carbon_Block_Cartridges~vendor~.html), which really strips out any particulates, and further strips any traces of chlorine in the water. This works for me only because my water company uses chlorine. If they used chlorimines instead, I'd have to come up with another solution.
The second cartridge is connected to the trash can with more RO/DI tubing, and terminates with one of these float valves (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~KM1675~idCategor y~FIRORAFV~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-Float_Valves~vendor~.html). I drilled a small hole about 2" from the top of the trash can, popped this through the hole, screwed it down tight, and plugged in the tubing. It's just like the float in your toilet. If the water is low, it lets more water in until it floats up, and then shuts off the water. Simple.
And in the trash cans I've tossed a couple of aquarium heaters to warm the water. I've also got a little air pump pushing air through an air stone in the trash can, to pre-aerate the water, and to assist in the removal of any last traces of chlorine, if any.
It's worth noting that if you want to get a bigger storage container, and really crank the air stone, in many cases you might not need teh carbon filters I'm using. But if you have chlorimine in your water, you are probaly stuck having to use a commercial de-chlor product (like Prime) to deal with it. Sorry.
WHAT IF I DO HAVE CHLORIMINE IN MY WATER?
Well, things get a little more expensive. I know some RI/DO units can remove it. But I don't know much about that really, so you'll have to find those details elsewhere.
Or you could buy a liquidoser (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=EH3585&productid=EH3585&channelid=FROOG)or a peristaltic pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~AQ4511~idCategor y~FIDPETPU~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off-Electric_Powered-Plug_in_Units~vendor~.html) to dose your aging tank with de-chlor periodically. (Though I that is not my favorite peristaltic pump. They get better for a little more money.)
Or I think you could use staged aging tanks, where instead of just one, you had two, or three.
Another pump on a timer could move water from the "new water" tank to an "old water" tank. And of course you would pump water for the aquarium from the "old water" tank. And you would need aeration in each tank, but only heat in the "old water" tank. I'm not positive about the aging of chlorimine treated water though. So do check that out before you take my word for it.
These solutions are a little more complicated, and a definitely more expensive. Bottom line, you are lucky if your water only has chlorine and not chlorimine.
WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Several things.
The little float valve in the trash can could get stuck, and there would be a disaster. But as long as I don't introduce snails or something into that trash can, I guess that's about as likely as it happening to my toilets, which it does not.
The dog could chew through tubing. That'd be awful. But unlikely with my dog.
The house could lose power during a drain process, but resume before, or during, the fill process. That could indeed cause water to overflow... if the drain process didn't finish, then the fill process could put back more than was removed. That could get wet. But because the entire drain time is only 10 minutes, and because I schedule the drain/fill cycle at low power usage times, for this to happen would take quit a coincidence. Possible - yes. Likely - no.
A timer could fail. I have no idea what the likelihood of that is. I am hoping it's very low, for the first 4 or 5 years of service for these timers.
So it's not perfect. Accidents could happen. But they are all pretty unlikely.
For the purposes of this tank, and for the huge benefit I get in not having to change my water... I'm willing to risk it.
And it's not cheap. I suppose the question is, how much is it worth to never change that water again? ;)
And as I mentioned initially, you can get a lot more sophisticated with something like this. I've got a far more robust auto water change system on my main tank. You can look at how that works here at www.wetplantlogic.com (http://wetplantlogic.com/). Look at the "Technical Tank Diagram" post. But this is about the lowest cost, easiest to set up way that I know for never changing your water, with near zero maintenance to keep it running... The filters do have to be changed every 6-12 months. But that's about it. Not so bad.
I hope this was helpful.
But in this thread (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=64796) there seemed to be some interest in how I set up the auto water change in my 29g. It's not pretty. And it could fail. But for the few months I'll be using in, I think the risk is low. It works pretty easily... I don't touch it. It just does a 50% w/c for me once each morning, and once each evening. It would be easy to set it up to do more, or less, as needed.
The "system" is simple, having four main components:
Control Equipment
Drain equipment
Fill equipment
Aging "Tank"
THE CONTROL EQUIPMENT
Everything is controlled by three digital timers. One timer controls the drain process. One controls the fill process. And I even have one shut off my my main filter while I'm draining and filling, because the fish seem to be bothered by all the extra water movement, and that helps minimize it. In my particular setup the drain process is 10 minutes, the fill process is 12. I've got the timers synchronized to the same time. So at 9 AM (and 9 PM) one timer shuts off the main filter. A couple of minutes after that, another timer starts the drain, and lets that run for 10 minutes. Then a minute after that finishes, a third timer starts the fill process, and lets that fun for 12 minutes. And a minute or two after that finishes, the first timer turns the main filter back on.
It's worth noting that the drain and fill timers need to be plugged into either the same wall socket, or into the same power strip. You do not want to risk losing power to one and not the other. They either need to be both woking, or both not working.
I prefer the Intermatic DT27C (http://www.intermatic.com/Default.asp?action=prod&pid=9231&did=5&cid=43&sid=114) timers because the buttons are covered, so you don't have to worry about something getting changed accidentally. And it has a battery backup, if you lose power, if never forgets the time, or it's programming.
THE DRAIN EQUIPMENT
To get the water out of the tank, I've got a simple little Aquaclear PH301 (http://www.bigalsonline.com/BigAlsUS/ctl3684/cp19862/si1378644/cl0/aquaclearpowerhead301) powerhead stuck halfway up the side of the tank on the inside. It's got a 3/8" ID hose that connects to the outflow of the powerhead, up and out of the tank and over to a drain I have in the same room. So when the timer turns the drain powerhead on, it sucks water out of the tank, and pushes it to the drain. While the drain timer leaves the powerhead on for 10 minutes, it actually only takes water out of the tank for about 7 minutes. Once the water level gets low enough to start sucking up a little air with the water, it tries to push more water, but can't. I let it spend the last 3 minutes of the drain cycle trying, but actually doing nothing. And because it is sucking up some water, but not much, it does not burn out.
This extra time is deliberate. Because if I ever drain LESS water than the amount that is going to be pumped back in, the tank is going to overflow. And since I can depend on the fact that the same amount of water is going back each time, I want to make sure that AT LEAST that much is removed first. The extra time on the drain process is just a little bit of of caution, just to make double sure there is enough time to drain every thing that is supposed to drain.
THE FILL EQUIPMENT
This is simple. It's just a Eheim Universal 1048 Hobby pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_AquariumPage~PageAlias~pumps_eheim_universal_ho bby_powerheads.html) sitting on the bottom of my aging tank that pumps water up a 3/8" ID tube into the tank. It's on a timer, and starts right after the drain is finished, so it always pumps up the same amount of water at just the right time.
It's possible that some powerheads may have been able to do this. But since the aging tank is several feet below the aquarium, I thought that extra head pressure might take a hefty little pump like this one.
And it's important to note... the fill process is always 12 minutes. But the amount of water that is pumped in 12 minutes could vary. I always start the process with the aging tank full. But if it were not full, there would not be as much head pressure, and less water would be pumped. Or if I raised my aging tank up higher (relative to the aquarium) the total head pressure would be less, and I'd pump MORE water. That would be bad. But as long as my fill process always starts with a full tank. And if I don't go moving the aging tank, it will always pump a nice predictable quantity of water.
THE AGING "TANK"
To age my water I bought a 30 gallon trash can. The water coming into the trash can is from my tap water. I connected some RO/DI tubing to our home's cold water lines using a saddle-valve tap (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1319~idCategor y~FIRORARP~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-RO_Unit_Plumbing_Parts~vendor~.html). That tubing runs to two DI canisters - like these (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1191~idCategor y~FIRORARC~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-Replacment_Canister__Housings~vendor~.html). The water line goes into one canister, that canister connects to the next canister, and the final canister is connected to the 30 gallon trash can.
The first of the two canisters has a 5 micron carbon matrix filter (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1133~idCategor y~FIRORPCB~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Replacement_Filters-Carbon_Block_Cartridges~vendor~.html) in it. This caches big stuff in the water, and strips out the chlorine in it. The second canister is a 0.5 micron cartridge (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~RO1131~idCategor y~FIRORPCB~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Replacement_Filters-Carbon_Block_Cartridges~vendor~.html), which really strips out any particulates, and further strips any traces of chlorine in the water. This works for me only because my water company uses chlorine. If they used chlorimines instead, I'd have to come up with another solution.
The second cartridge is connected to the trash can with more RO/DI tubing, and terminates with one of these float valves (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~KM1675~idCategor y~FIRORAFV~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Reverse_Osmosis-Accessories-Float_Valves~vendor~.html). I drilled a small hole about 2" from the top of the trash can, popped this through the hole, screwed it down tight, and plugged in the tubing. It's just like the float in your toilet. If the water is low, it lets more water in until it floats up, and then shuts off the water. Simple.
And in the trash cans I've tossed a couple of aquarium heaters to warm the water. I've also got a little air pump pushing air through an air stone in the trash can, to pre-aerate the water, and to assist in the removal of any last traces of chlorine, if any.
It's worth noting that if you want to get a bigger storage container, and really crank the air stone, in many cases you might not need teh carbon filters I'm using. But if you have chlorimine in your water, you are probaly stuck having to use a commercial de-chlor product (like Prime) to deal with it. Sorry.
WHAT IF I DO HAVE CHLORIMINE IN MY WATER?
Well, things get a little more expensive. I know some RI/DO units can remove it. But I don't know much about that really, so you'll have to find those details elsewhere.
Or you could buy a liquidoser (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_viewitem.aspx?idproduct=EH3585&productid=EH3585&channelid=FROOG)or a peristaltic pump (http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~action~view~idProduct~AQ4511~idCategor y~FIDPETPU~category~Saltwater_Aquarium_Supplies-Dosing_Pumps_Top_Off-Electric_Powered-Plug_in_Units~vendor~.html) to dose your aging tank with de-chlor periodically. (Though I that is not my favorite peristaltic pump. They get better for a little more money.)
Or I think you could use staged aging tanks, where instead of just one, you had two, or three.
Another pump on a timer could move water from the "new water" tank to an "old water" tank. And of course you would pump water for the aquarium from the "old water" tank. And you would need aeration in each tank, but only heat in the "old water" tank. I'm not positive about the aging of chlorimine treated water though. So do check that out before you take my word for it.
These solutions are a little more complicated, and a definitely more expensive. Bottom line, you are lucky if your water only has chlorine and not chlorimine.
WHAT COULD GO WRONG?
Several things.
The little float valve in the trash can could get stuck, and there would be a disaster. But as long as I don't introduce snails or something into that trash can, I guess that's about as likely as it happening to my toilets, which it does not.
The dog could chew through tubing. That'd be awful. But unlikely with my dog.
The house could lose power during a drain process, but resume before, or during, the fill process. That could indeed cause water to overflow... if the drain process didn't finish, then the fill process could put back more than was removed. That could get wet. But because the entire drain time is only 10 minutes, and because I schedule the drain/fill cycle at low power usage times, for this to happen would take quit a coincidence. Possible - yes. Likely - no.
A timer could fail. I have no idea what the likelihood of that is. I am hoping it's very low, for the first 4 or 5 years of service for these timers.
So it's not perfect. Accidents could happen. But they are all pretty unlikely.
For the purposes of this tank, and for the huge benefit I get in not having to change my water... I'm willing to risk it.
And it's not cheap. I suppose the question is, how much is it worth to never change that water again? ;)
And as I mentioned initially, you can get a lot more sophisticated with something like this. I've got a far more robust auto water change system on my main tank. You can look at how that works here at www.wetplantlogic.com (http://wetplantlogic.com/). Look at the "Technical Tank Diagram" post. But this is about the lowest cost, easiest to set up way that I know for never changing your water, with near zero maintenance to keep it running... The filters do have to be changed every 6-12 months. But that's about it. Not so bad.
I hope this was helpful.