What are the key considerations to set up a well planted aquarium with discus?

[ojdewet]

I love the look of a well planted aquarium (I prefer the look of a well balanced ecosystem as opposed to discus in a bare tank) but if I consider how much care my garden takes to look like a show garden (and how much research I had to do and practice to get to that point) I am sure that my current approach is just not sufficient.

What is the mental thinking process to go through when you want to develop a long term well planted aquarium? What are the key considerations in terms of the following:

Substrate
Plants
Equipment (i.e. CO2 injection etc.)
Lighting
Compatability with discus
Algae management
Cleaning of tank, plants, substrate (incl. water changes)
Any other things I have missed


Any advice will be appreciated as I am inexperienced with freshwater plants - I kept a marine tank with chorals so I know how involved the hobby is and I am willing to put in the elbow grease but I also realise that I have to take my time and learn how to do it right (or pay the price of my mistakes)...

Thanx
OJ
:D :D :D

[Harriett]

I think you are looking at the key factors--so my two cents would be this:

Substrate: either go with one of the aquasoils specifically available for planted tanks, or go for an inert substrate like spa/pool sand and plan to fertilize [a subject unto itself]. The grain size should be smaller so food and debris are not trapped below and so plants can grab and root. I have used a lot of different substrates and my current pick is the pool sand--it is CHEAP, looks quite natural, plants root beautifully in it, easy to clean with the python because the grains are heavy and fall back to the floor, doesn't get sucked easily up into the hose if you pay attention. You just need to occasionally stir the sand to its full depth so as to avoid anaerobic pockets from forming which would foul the tank.

Plants: every planted tank is a unique environment--consider carefully the temp of the tank when you buy plants--many don't do well in the 82-84 degree temp discus a happiest in. Consider that if you go with intense light needs plants, it may be a little spooky for the discus..I usually stick with plants that require medium wattage, like 1.5-2 wpg.

Equipment: I saw significant changes from a low tech to a high tech tank when I put in my CO2. Plants do much better, and the discus like the lower pH. My tap is 7.5, and the 6.8 I keep the planted tank at works nicely! I encourage you to use the Co2 if you are comfortable with setting it up and the expense.

Light: addressed above--my discus are comfortable with the tank lit to 2 wpg--I have used different compact phlourescent bulbs over the years and it seems like the 67Ks are what I have settled on. The kind of bulbs you choose will affect how well the plants grow and whether the discus look more vibrant or more washed out, as does the color of the back of the tank..I go for a light color, like pale blue of blue green. Also consider the effect of added ambient light from windows when you set up.

Algae: it's all about balancing the nutrients [fertilizers both in water column and or root tabs], the lights, the length of the light day, the number of fish, the number of plants, the CO2. This is a challenging journey to get right and can take a fair amount of experimenting to see what works for your system. I encourage newbies to NOT start their twin hobbies of planted tank and discus tank together, but to learn each hobby separately...there is a definite learning curve and I think more success if you are not trying to learn to do both in the same tank. Building/developing a strong planted tank requires stability of water perameters and raising discus requires extremely clean water and LOTS of feeding and big frequent water changes....keeping ferts etc balanced when you are changing lots of water every day or other day to grow out fish present opposite needs...adult discus are great in planteds, growing out juvies is far better in a bare bottom tank.

Cleaning: Everyone develops their own system depending on where the tanks are and how the systems are set up--I use a python and in the warmer months run the hoses right out to the garden to empty. WHere as I change water in my adult discus bb tanks every other day, I only do the big planted tank once a week.

Hope this all helps a bit and good luck!!!! There are a lot of gifted people here on simply and I know they will help you out as you go along!
Best regards
Harriett

[GrillMaster]

If you want a tank like your garden, do the same amount of research and make the same amount of mistakes that you went through to get the garden you have always wanted!

Do the same thing with the discus! Do the research, grow some out in a BB tank, then combine the two when you feel you have sufficient knowledge to do so...My .02(mental thinking)...:)

[ojdewet]

Thank you for such great replies. I realise more and more that I have taken on too much in trying to raise juvenile discus in the same tank that I grow plants, especially given my lack of experience.

I am going to buy a second tank which I will set up to raise my discus (doing daily water changes) while I stabilise my main planted tank. This will give me time to experiment and learn as I go along on my planted tank. I want to experiment with CO2 injection because I unfortunately have a very high pH on my tapwater (8.2) and if I can use CO2 to bring this down I can recreate the environment of discus more effectively.

Just a quick question: how long will it take to raise a set of juvies to be ready for inclusion in a main tank? I know many factors influence but if I keep a bare tank and feed heavily with regular water changes (3 - 4 times a week) how many months are we talking about approximately?



Cheers
OJ

[GrillMaster]

Once they reach 5-6" in a year give or take a month or so. They will be nice and fat by then.

Keep in mind though...Now that you have introduced adult discus into your nice planted tank, your gonna want to keep em that way, nice an fat! That means feeding enough but obviously not as much as you did tryin to fatten em up.

This is where things can get a lil hectic. You have had a fert regime in your "pt" that you have been doing ever since ya started fattening these juvies up. Things look great in the tank! All of a sudded you have just put a pretty large bio load addition on your tank totally changing the tanks dynamics with the extra food and waste that the Discus will create. Your going to have to adjust your fert regime accordingly. Now you will have to find the balance of what ferts to add and what not to add...:) The food and waste are ferts in themselves...Get your test kits ready! ;) :D

The plants you have in your tank will dictate how often to do WC's. Obviously if ya have a ton of fast growing stem plants, WC's will be less frequent. If ya have alot of slow growers like I do, then Wc's every 3 days or so...

Then of course as Harriet mentioned....How much light, how long its on, what type of plants, how much c02 etc...There are just so many variables in this equasion!!! :crazy:

You can go to "TPT" and read a hundred different planted tank threads and no two tanks are the same. Read this forum on how to grow out juvies and care for Discus, it's the same, lots of good clean aged H20...

Now put Discus in a planted tank your back to no two tanks are the same scenario...;) :D :D :D

[ojdewet]

Thank you gents and ladies for taking the time to write very thorough and thoughtful replies to my question. I realise more and more that the best approach is 'try and try again... and then again".

I am going shopping this weekend for a tank to grow my discus out in - my current water change tank is too small.

I realise that removing the discus from the planted main tank will drastically reduce the bio-load but I will keep some other fish in the main tank. I will also get a new additional external canister filter in the new tank (which I will cycle before moving the discus) and when I eventually move the discus back to the planted tank that filter will come along which will effectively double my filter capacity in my main tank at that stage (with the matured bacterial colony moving to the new tank).

In the meanwhile I will experiment with plant types - I think I need to put more slow-growing plants in my tank as the algae seem to get more of a strangle-hold on the faster growing plants and get the nutrient balance right over time (which includes getting CO2 installed).

And then when I have mastered discus and plants separately - put them together again and start all over again.

Have a great day
OJ