Help- Chronically sick discus, others fine

[deanne]

Hello everyone,

I'm hoping to get to the bottom of this problem and any help would be much appreciated. I have four discus (5-6") in a 55g with 7 tetras, 2 loaches, and one small pleco. One of the discus, a 5" blue turquoise that I have had for over a year (my first, in fact!) has always had problems even though all the other fish are fine and thriving. She rarely looks "right", and then only for a short time immediately after my weekly 75% wc. The rest of the time it is darkened, and usually has some kind of skin condition or another- white pimples or patchy areas that look like the scales have been rubbed off. It eats well and behaves normally. Today it has a bumpy abdomen.

What can I do for it? Are some fish just more sensitive and this one requires more than the water changes I am able to do. I just can't manage more than one per week with my busy life. If it needs to go to a more diligent home, I can do that. But I'd like to rule out disease first. I like this fish, she would be quite the specimen if I can just get her healthy.

Temp- 88 degrees; pH- stable at 8.0 and moderate hardness. I use tapwater and Prime, that's all. Everyone seems fine with it, including my other 28g tank with a pair that keeps laying eggs.

I'll try to get a picture.

Any advice appreciated. Thanks!
Deanne

[deanne]

PS- I just tested the water, 3 days after my last wc because the fish in question was looking so dark. The results:
Ammonia zero
Nitrite zero
Nitrate 20

I had just cleaned both canister filters and suspected an ammonia spike, but nothing. I keep a lot of biofiltration media in both canisters and in two biowheels, and I'm careful with it.

d

[Don Trinko]

I would consider changing the water more offten. Maybee 40 to 50% twice a week. 20 nitrates is not going to kill your fish but they would probably like 10or less better. If you have gravel don't forget to vacumn it at every WC. Don T.

[deanne]

Hi Don,

Thanks for the input. So you don't think it's disease then, but just a fish that is more sensitive than the others to water quality.

I just took out all but the thinnest layer of gravel. It was a couple inches deep, and although I was vacuuming it every time it still had a lot of stored-up gunk in it, so I think that will help. I'll start doing more water changes and see what happens. Maybe I can get creative with some plumbing that will make it easier. It's getting out the hoses and running back and forth that limits my ability to do them more often.

I wish I could keep real plants but they just got ugly and died. Temperature too high I guess.

d

[Don Trinko]

It might be sick but if there is no specific disease WC will ussualy help.
When you change water once a week the water could get prety bad just before the next WC.
Read some of the threads regarding WC. It can be made fairly easy with the proper hoses and pumps and a heated storage container. Don T.

[deanne]

Thanks! I'll let you know what happens.
d

[kodey65]

I have the same issue with one of my fish. I perform water changes twice a week at one point I was performing three times a week and I still have the same issues. One day the fish is doing great the next he's in the bottom dark and limp, mean while the other fish are thriving!

[Autumn Wind]

How is it's appetite? Does it eat well?

[ShinShin]

Gravel can and does harbor pathogens. Canister filters, maintained improperly, can and do harbor pathogens. Chronic exposure to high nitrate levels can stress a discus. With the info provided, it sounds to me that your discus has a main problem, accompanied by a secondary malady. Time and time again, it is suggested that discus be kept in bare bottomed tanks and use sponge filters. This is excellant advice. It is a time proven method by the pioneers of the discus hobby as well as those considered today's experts. Read the disease section and read all about the gravel/canister filtered tanks and the health problems.

Or, your discus could have a congenital problem. Discus have these issues just like people, cats and dogs. There will be no cure for such an issue. Some discus are born weak and will never be a well fish. Ever. I've had such fish, spawned by myself, that just never made it. That is why culling is necessary. Small weak fish need to be elimenated by the breeder.

Another cause can be a young fish that got ill very young and sometimes these fish never bounce back, always bouncing from looking well to looking sick. I have had this happen as well. I just freeze these fish. They aren't worth anything to me.

Mat

[Kindredspirit]

I just took out all but the thinnest layer of gravel. It was a couple inches deep, and although I was vacuuming it every time it still had a lot of stored-up gunk in it, so I think that will help. I'll start doing more water changes and see what happens.
d

Take it all out and "see what happens"~ learn the basics of Discus keeping, and well. Then add substrate of choice.

Mat could not have said it all better IMO!

[deanne]

Thanks everybody!

The bare bottom thing is starting to sink in. I read Carol Roberts piece on it, and I see that my 1-pebble layer is just not going to give me the same benefits. So I think I'll be baring my bottom :-). I am very attached to the "natural" appearance of my tank and it will be a big adjustment for me. Furnishing a bb tank is a bit baffling to me, but I will give it a go. The gravel was harboring something all right- a zillion tiny snails! They are gone now that I scooped out every last bit of that old gravel and added clean pebbles for the thin layer.

I got my wc set-up more dialed with a water-aging-and-heating barrel and its easier. I have done wc's every three days and the fish in question looks somewhat better.

Yes it's eating, right along with the others. It seems to be a little more skittish than the others sometimes, which often leads to lesions b/c the poor thing crashes around so much.

So these sponge filters... do they replace the canister filter entirely or do they act as a pre-filter to take out the large gunk? I guess the idea is that the bio-media only goes in the canister? I have read a lot of the forum posts on water quality and filtration and it can be challenging for a novice to imagine the arrangement. I don't understand why the sponge filters are inside the tank rather than in a canister. Again this will be an adjustment for me as I am always trying to hide the mechanics of my tank.

This fish has been pretty sick in the past and I have considered the possibility that it was damaged permanently during those bouts. Like the time I poisoned my tank with Amquel combined with De-chlor and all the fish were lying on the bottom and black. It's an especially pretty turq with wonderful high fins, so I'm going to try to give it what it needs. The other fish will benefit- maybe they'll actually grow!

d

[deanne]

Update-

Getting rid of the gravel and doing more frequent WCs has helped the chronic fish to look a lot better. They all look better, partly I think due to the new pool filter sand which made them lighten up. It's true, I couldn't stand bare bottom and even the fish seemed freaked out. So I got sand and I really like it. I learned about it here on Simply (just like everything else I know about keeping discus).

My project all weekend has been plumbing a permanent PVC-pipe system so my WCs are now done by opening and closing valves rather than dragging hoses and pumps around. I'm quite smug about it. With the help of pipes that encircle the living room (almost invisible as they run behind a big couch) and hook up to their outdoor connection with a removable tube at the sliding door, both tanks drain to a fern garden and then refill through the same pipes from my water-aging barrel. It's so fun I feel like doing water changes every day! It will certainly be no problem to do them twice a week, even with my busy schedule. I think this will raise my discus-keeping success up a notch.

Thanks to everyone who has encouraged these upgrades in my practices, I really appreciate the generously shared knowledge here on Simply Discus.