Is it true?

[chemjab]

that dark (black) substrate will cause pigeons to "pepper"?

Is that the correct term pepper? I have noticed my Marlboro Reds sometimes have a lot of dark pigmentation around their circumference.

Mine are in a 120g with black moon sand, black flurite, black gravel substrate. I am currious to know if changing to a lighter color substate will cause them to "un-pepper".

Thanks for your thoughts
James

[Crstfr]

i dig that peppered look... i'm not that familiar yet with discus to answer that but i bet someone will chime in~.. also... are the black bars on discus a young thing?.. or do they loose the stripes when they mature?

[chemjab]

i.. also... are the black bars on discus a young thing?.. or do they loose the stripes when they mature?

As far as I know they will have the bars their whole life. As the discus get older their coloration fills in more and you see the bars less, Unless like on my wild you see them all the time.

Even on a cobalt or silver pigeon you can see the bars (faintly) from the right angle. Sometimes I can see them on my silver from the back when he is swimming away.

I have also noticed the lowest in the pecking order usually has stripes or bars. Maybe it is a submission thing???

James:bandana:

[dpt8]

They will show their black peppering if they have a dark background or dark substrate. That's why we recommend light colored backgrounds and white/ light substrate. Sorry. Some discus have the peppering, like pigeon bloods but they have that cameleon effect, and turn dark or show darker black peppering due to their surroundings.. Depends what you like. David T

[chemjab]

Thanks David,

I guess I will let it go for a short time. ( I don't have time to do a complete tear down now) Eventually I will try lighter colors and hope they lighten up. :)

James

[yim11]

They will show their black peppering if they have a dark background or dark substrate. That's why we recommend light colored backgrounds and white/ light substrate. Sorry. Some discus have the peppering, like pigeon bloods but they have that cameleon effect, and turn dark or show darker black peppering due to their surroundings.. Depends what you like. David T

This is one thing that has always confused me - are the fish showing the peppering more or are we seeing it more? And if they are showing it more is it like stripes during excitement or stress - the pepper shows up more during those times? On the 2 I have w/ PB strains and pepper I haven't really noticed a difference going from a dark to light background (already had white substrate).

I ask because it seems to me that a dark background and/or substrate would show the darker markings on the fish more?

Thanks,
-jim

[Fishguy2727]

In my experiene my pigeon bloods do nto vary the amount of peppering they are showing based on light, background, decor, pH, etc. At least with mine it has always been the same.

[chemjab]

I have 2 cases documented of PB pepper increasing against the dark background\substrait. I will experimenting to see if the pepper effect can be reversed.
For details see:
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?p=474025#post474025

[Harriett]

This is one thing that has always confused me - are the fish showing the peppering more or are we seeing it more? And if they are showing it more is it like stripes during excitement or stress - the pepper shows up more during those times? On the 2 I have w/ PB strains and pepper I haven't really noticed a difference going from a dark to light background (already had white substrate).

I ask because it seems to me that a dark background and/or substrate would show the darker markings on the fish more?

Thanks,
-jim

Jim,
The object of the fish is to stay alive--camoflaging and blending in keep them alive, according to the fishs' hard wiring. So, if the tank is dark [background, substrate], the fish will darken as much as possible to dissappear and be less at risk of attack. Bodies go dark on blue fish and turqs for example, and peppering comes out on pigeons, which have the genetics to pepper--this peppering doesn't come and go by the moment as in a stress situation--it sort of creeps up when the circumstances are there. Pigeons don't pepper in response to stress in my experience--just to the environment. Turqs show bars in various situations--it is more of a mood indicator, which includes stress as well as environment.
In general, if you have discus in a tank with dark background and or substrate, you will invariably find them going dark, as their genetics allow--albinos obviously don't have the pigment to do so. I have pure yellow discus and those that are not pigeon based do not darken at all, for example.
Best regards
Harriett

[chemjab]

Jim,
The object of the fish is to stay alive--camoflaging and blending in keep them alive, according to the fishs' hard wiring. So, if the tank is dark [background, substrate], the fish will darken as much as possible to dissappear and be less at risk of attack. Bodies go dark on blue fish and turqs for example, and peppering comes out on pigeons, which have the genetics to pepper--this peppering doesn't come and go by the moment as in a stress situation--it sort of creeps up when the circumstances are there. Pigeons don't pepper in response to stress in my experience--just to the environment. Turqs show bars in various situations--it is more of a mood indicator, which includes stress as well as environment.
In general, if you have discus in a tank with dark background and or substrate, you will invariably find them going dark, as their genetics allow--albinos obviously don't have the pigment to do so. I have pure yellow discus and those that are not pigeon based do not darken at all, for example.
Best regards
Harriett


Nicely put. That makes sense to me.
Thanks.
So in your opinion. Do you think they will slowly loose the peppering when in a lighter environment?

James

[Harriett]

I imagine they will lose some of it, and will retain a bit. When I made the changes in my planted tank from my dramatic and beloved black background and fairly dark gravel to a light blue green background and off light buff pool sand, my pigeons as well as my blues and turqs became significantly lighter and brighter in color. I am very pleased, though it was a PITA to accomplish.
Best regards
Harriett

[chemjab]

I imagine they will lose some of it, and will retain a bit. When I made the changes in my planted tank from my dramatic and beloved black background and fairly dark gravel to a light blue green background and off light buff pool sand, my pigeons as well as my blues and turqs became significantly lighter and brighter in color. I am very pleased, though it was a PITA to accomplish.
Best regards
Harriett

Thanks Harriett,

I am glad to hear that all the hard work to change the substrate and background paid off for you. This gives me hope and encouragement to continue on. You're not kidding it's a PITA to make the switch. I will be making the switch soon, but had an emergency discus health issue to deal with first. I will also be switching to a taller stand ( I have to build it first) and want to make all the changes at the same time.

Happy Fish Keeping,
James