New tank cycling...

[newe70]

Hello all,

I am new to this forum and this is my first actual post. I currently have a 55g tank with 10 discus varies in sizes. I also have a pair of Angels, and four Clown Loaches. I just recently decided to upgrade my tank to a 125g from 55g tank for my discus to have a bigger home for them to play.

During the new tank cycle process. I have used roughly about 20% - 25% volume of water from my established tank and transfer into a new tank. I also use the decorative plants, pebles, and drift wood and filtration system from my established 55g tank. I also used bacteria booster to aid the cycling process so the bacteria can multiply their colonies. So far, my new tank has been running over a week now; fishless cycling. My water parameter readings are based on the API test kit:

1- Temp. = 82 degree F
2- pH = 7.6 alkaline (trying to bring it down to 7.0)
3- Ammonia = 0 ppm
4- Nitrite = 0 ppm, and
5- Nitrate = 0 ppm

Why is the ammonia still @ 0 ppm. I have tested 3 times since the cycling begins and have not seen any spike. Am I missing something here, or is it because I have aided a cycling process by using the water and other things from my established tank.

Is it a smart move to start to transfer my discus to their new home slowly now? Do I need to do more cycling?

Thank you in advance for your inputs and feedbacks.

Here are some of my discus on my current 55g tank.

[geleen]

If you moved the filter from the 55 to the 125 what are you using on the 55?
I am confused :-) Are you using ammonia daily in the new tank?

I would have moved everything over at once.
The bio-load for the filter would remain the same only the volume of water would have changed.

If you are adding ammonia to 5ppm and it gets converted to 0 in 24 hours and there is 0 nitrites you have a cycled tank.
In a cycled tank nitrAtes are present unless there are massive amounts of live plants.

I would move the fish (but only If you used the filter from the 55 and added daily ammonia to keep the bacteria alive)
Just test daily for a week to make sure, and if needed do some WC.

BTW no worries about your PH it is just fine.
John

[Graham]

Hi Welcome to the form. You're missing a few things when it comes to the nitrogen cycle. First off transferring old water around will do nothing but transfer stale water around....

Second... the wood, pebbles, filtration were covered in the nitrifying bacteria and unless you've been adding pure ammonia that bacteria has been dying not increasing it's numbers. It's had no food source.....You will see no ammonia etc., in this tank. There is no increased cycling taking place.

What are the water parameters in the old tank since you moved all this stuff over to the new tank?

The size of a bacteria colony is directly related to the available food source IE: ammonia. That ammonia comes from the fish, if you're not adding pure ammonia. What you should have done was move all the fish and their decoration and filters in one move.

You can still do this.

G

[Roxanne]

if you're not adding pure ammonia. What you should have done was move all the fish and their decoration and filters in one move.

You can still do this.

G

Hi Graham sorry to interupt, is that what you should do to a cycled tank when it is emptied of fish to keep the colonies alive? And then change all the water before you add the fish to it?

Rox:):)

[Graham]

Yup, Years ago in the stores we'd goo several weeks between marine orders. The colonies would drop back so when we introduced a new shipment of fish we'd get a big spike.

Once we started adding small amounts of NH3 the tanks stayed at peak colonies

[newe70]

Geleen,

I have a different set of filtration system running on my 55g tank.

Graham,

My H2O parameters for the 55g tanks:

1- Temp. 84
2- pH = 7.2 - 7.4
3- Ammonia = 0 ppm
4- Nitrite = 0 ppm, and
5- Nitrate = .2 ppm

No wonder why I did not get the spike in the ammonia. Because I did not add the ammonia. Sorry for my ignorant...that is the reason why I did not get any reading from the ammonia. Can I get the ammonia from Petsmart? Luckily that I asked or else I just kept cycling and cyling the new tank w/o adding ammonia to it.

I got it now, I should have ask for help before starting on my new tank. I just wasted one whole week for nothing.

Thank you a whole punch for waking me up and for your super quick responses.

[Graham]

Why not just move all the fish and the filters etc from the 55 over to the 125 .there's no reason not to

[Patr1ck]

Something that I would do in your situation, since I have learned the hard way on this one, (lost a few fish in 24 hrs after adding to a tank that I thought was cycled. Thank god there werent any discus involved yet) is go to your lfs. They may have a few tanks of donated fish that are pretty inexpensive. The lfs in my neck of the woods does and there is always one tank full of different types of ciclids. I prefer Africans. They are pretty hardy fish and you dont have the attachment to them if for some reason something bad happens. Let them cycle your tank and when they're done bring them back to the lfs. To me, thats the safest way to do it instead of risking those beautiful discus and angels.:)

Patrick

[Graham]

Patrick...what if the LFS 's fish have parasites...now the new tank is contaminated.

In this case nothing needs to be cycled..it aready is

[Patr1ck]

I'd use my qt first to minimize the chances.

[Roxanne]

I'd use my qt first to minimize the chances.


Gday

And by the time they have finished quarantine it's all taken a bit too long hasn't it?....:confused:
I use my gouramis & africans to keep tanks cycled, but I have had them a looong time.

Graham is absolutely right. His wisdom has helped me many times, go with it.

Roxanne;)

[newe70]

I took Graham's advice by transfered the water, filter, decorations, and fishes into my new tank every at the same time. I tested my water parameter every other day, and everything fell within range, except the pH is still hanging around 7.6.

Now that my discus fishes are living into their new and bigger home. They seem to be shy and afraid. They tend to hide at corner more when I feed them and/or I watched them. May be they still getting use to their new home and environment.

I have an oily substance on the surface of my new tank. I am not sure how it get there or just may be from my hand. I have been to trying to remove it by using the paper towel. So far, no success. How would you recommend me to remove that oily substance?

I will post a new picture of my tank soon.

Thank you much.

[Graham]

Normally an oily film is DOC's and protein based. It would not be coming off your hands unless your using some type of hand cream and this wouldn't be a good thing.

What type of food are you feeding

G

[newe70]

I feed my discus with Hikari frozen blood worm, frozen shrimp brine, and Tetracolor Pellets.

[Patr1ck]

You can use a surface skimmer. The one that I have used is made by fluval. It plumbs right into the intake tube of your filter. It works really well and its adjustable too. It comes with a couple of different adapters also. I put it in my tank and 10 mins later the film was gone. Are you using RO water? Your first post tells me that the answer is no, but I thought I would ask. Also what substrate are you using? Any plants?


P

[Graham]

I feed my discus with Hikari frozen blood worm, frozen shrimp brine, and Tetracolor Pellets.


I'm not sure what you're film is then as these foods wouldn't create it. Any possibility of smoke, cooking fumes etc getting pumped in?

[DavidH]

Not trying to steal this thread but have another question for Graham from another thread.
As we spoke about in the other thread I'm maintaing a fishless cycle. Well thought I'd lost it last night, started to get high nitrite readings after taking ammonia to 1ppm. This morning all was well with 0 on both, but the ph had jumped to 8.2 from my normal 7.0. I dropped it back to 7.4. Then raised ammonia back to 1ppm this morning. Am I doing the right thing. What caused the ph jump?
Thx again Dave

[newe70]

I am not so sure why that oily film was there at first place. You are absolutely right Graham, the frozen foods will not make this mess. I never have this problem before during the last four years with my 55g tank. Do you think the salt that I added to my new tank and the protein from the Tetra Color Pellet have something to do with it and creating this mess?

I did a partial w/c last night seem to help quite a bit, but it still there. I am using tap water, no r/o water. I will do some more w/c tonight when I get home. Hopefully, daily water change will help to get rid of the oily film subtance on the surface of the water for my new tank.

I just ordered a w/d sump filter, do you think the overflow prefilter will does the trick? Currently, I am running on 3 Jebo canister filtrations. I will take one off, once I have the new Proclear Aquatic 125 model set up sometimes next week, I hope.

Thank you again for all of your responses and help.

[Graham]

Newe70 The salt wouldn't have caused it and yes the overflow prefilter will take it away, but I'd still be looking for the source of it.

David, getting a spike of NO2 after a spike of NH3 is normal and if memory serves me correct you get 2 molecules of nitrite for every ammonia one:alien:

As to the pH jump that has to do with buffering chemistry:bandana:.... the combination of GH and KH.

head spinning.... bacteria use the energy in ammonia to make ATP, a food that in turn is used to build cells and fix carbon. The carbon has to come from CO2 in the water or carbonate harrdness. If the KH is low them it'll use CO2...the less CO2 the more basic the water.

Then calcium levels come into play:crazy:

Anyway at this point I wouldn't be bounceing the pH around...correct it when the big water change is done before the fish are added

[newe70]

Yes, I also wonder who that oily substance get there. And of-course, I will try to find out a root cause, so I can take a preventive action. Thx, Graham for your quick reply.

Ov10pat, I have pool filter sand substrate and decorative plastic plants for my tank.

Thank you again.

[Roxanne]

Hey I just remembered. When I set up a brand new 125l tank out of a box, there was some oily film on top of the water, I didn't touch it & didn't last long..I rinsed the tank but not the power head & stuff so could have been debris left over from manufacture...:)

[newe70]

I did a couple more w/c...a layer of oily film is pretty much all gone now. I am glad not to see that oily stuff on the surface of my new tank anymore. Here are a few pictures of my new 125g tank. I am still staining the canopy and it will be done soon.

[mcbrix]

hi im mike sorry to but in im im thinking of getting anew tank. my present one is abount 150*76cm 46cm wide(around 500 litres)im thinking of getting a new smaller one around 250 litres because i need to move my old one. how would you go abount moving the fish into the new tank so i can move it and then back into the old tank again with minimium stress thanks alot and sorry abount boting in mike

[Roxanne]

...how would you go abount moving the fish into the new tank so i can move it and then back into the old tank again ..

Hi mcbrix

Check out the thread below titled 'Cycling New Tank with old.....' Graham, explains exactly what to do.
hth
Rox:)

[mcbrix]

Hi mcbrix

Check out the thread below titled 'Cycling New Tank with old.....' Graham, explains exactly what to do.
hth
Rox:)

thanks alot how silly of me not to notice

[Roxanne]

sorry, here it is.


http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=67089

[newe70]

I had a chance to snap a few more pictures of my tank and a couple of new guys for my tank last night. Here they are and enjoy...

Steve

[newe70]

and a few more pix...

[Roxanne]

That looks GREAT!!! Love that colour of substrate...you did a real nice job with that.

Roxanne

[stevey87]

WOW giant angels

I have 8 angels in my 65 gallon tank. Will they get those big too or are your angels just special? Do they get more agressive when they get that big?

[aquadiva]

Looks just beautiful! I love your Discus too, they are lovely!!

Anna:)

[newe70]

Actual my Angel fish is not that aggressive at all...she is just doing her thing everyday and does not bother none of my discus fishes nor my discus fishes bother her. Yes, she is very big Angel. I have her over 4 years now and just recently lost one.

Thank you all for your comments.

Steve

[stevey87]

Just curiuos, when your big angel died after so many years how do you dispose it? It's big so it won't flush down toilet and you had it for long so. I always wondered this.

[newe70]

No, I did not flush it down to the toilet. I always dig a hole at the corner of my backyard and buried all of the fishes that I have lost.