Suggestions are needed for a new discus tank

[Hattawi]

I am new to discus keeping.
I got 6 discus last week and I find it very hard to feed them. They eat only blood worms only if it sinks right where they are hiding at. This is very hard to achieve.
They hide at far left corner and they stay there until there is no one in the room then they move out a bit but still stay in the general area of the left corner.
Water parameters: PH 7.5, Temp 31 now, used to be at 26.
GH 5, Ammonia <0.5, nitrate 0, nitrate 0
Tank size: 85cm x 30 cm x 40 cm, the tank has an arch in the front panel that makes it like a dome, at the middle of the arch, the tank measures 40cmx40cm. So the tank size is roughly 120 Litres.
Light: 75cm 25watts 6000k florescent bulb. I had another of the same which was 4000k but I removed it since the tank had too much light with both running at the same time (I think). I have the light on for 12 to 14 hours per day on average. The plants are growing really well.
I do 40% water changes every day. I use Tetra EX600 external filter that contains activated carbon by default. I have a UV sterilizer but I’m not willing to install it.
Other fish in the tank are: 25 Cardinal tetras and 4 leopard corydoras. Planted tank with gravel.
The discus are 2.5 inches now. Judging from their eye size, I do not think they are stunted.
I uploaded some pictures. I would like to feed my discus to speed up their growth. Currently, I only attempt feeding twice per day only to see the blood worms snapped by the cardinals mostly and the rest just sinks to the gravel for good. I siphon it back at the end of the day when I change the water.

I would love if someone would give my advice on how to make the discus eat more. To make them more comfortable and not to hide constantly. How can I improve their hiding place? Any other general advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

[DiscussDiscus]

Hi Hattawi,

Many fish are picky eaters when you first get them. While I'm not an expert, I've done a couple things for my picky eaters in the past:

1) if possible find out what they were raised on (or fed most recently and try that.) I usually keep 3-4 different foods on hand and figure out what their likes are.

2) Try some flavor enhancers (such as entice, or garlic guard for the packaged stuff, or I know some people make their own with Garlic juice..)

Try skipping a meal and then coming back with your flavor enhancers, once the discus eat a few meals, they tend to eat more regularly.

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The skittish nature of your discus is to be expected as they grow accustomed to you and their new surroundings. Try limiting the light exposure, whether through indirect light into the tank, or shorter daylight hours with the lights.

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Anyway, those are my tips, one beginner to the next :)

Lee

[Roxanne]

Gday

Were the other fish already in the tank when you put the discus in? In my albeit limited experience, I found my newbies wouldn't settle with other type fish in the tank, even neon tetras, with their constant movement, it seemed to keep the younger discus intimidated and afraid to explore the tank. I think that may depend on whether these fish had other tankmates before too. Also, what was the tank like that they came from? Bare bottom? Tank Mates?

:)

[Hattawi]

Thanks for your replies :)

I have seen the discus eating bloodworms before I bought them. They were nipping the floating frozen bloodworms cube directly in the shop. I have bought the very same brand. My first feeding attempt was more than 12 hours after I bought them. Only 2 discus fish nipped the cube directly when I threw the cube in but the vast majority of the bloodworms sank to the bottom. The catfish did not eat them (I verified it) so I had to siphon a lot from the gravel that day.

The Cardinals were before the discus fish. The cardinals used to stay in the far left corner as well fearing any movement in the room. When the discus were added, they were forced to stay in the middle of the tank and that gave a very beautiful display for the tank with the cardinals. Since then the cardinals became more comfortable and started to snatch the bloodworms. So I start giving them flake food and then I put the bloodworm to minimize their consumption of the bloodworms.

The tank they came from had gravel as well. It had 1 internal power filter and a single plant in a pot. The lighting was not strong at all. The discus in the that tank would come closer to the surface if you tap edge of the front glass plate from above as if you are calling them to feed. I don't think I can do the same with my tank setup.

[Mello]

I had the same problem when I started first started my discus tank. They will come along you just have to wait. Mine didn't eat for 5 days after I got them. What I did is I took out all the plants and rocks and feed them with no lights on. They will come along after that.

[plecocicho]

You have clearly present ammonia but no nitrates. That sounds like your tankl is still cycling. How long is this aquarium been running? And 6 discus in a 120 liter tank is to much. At least give a 50 liters per adult discus.

[tcyiu]

Here's an idea: place a small shallow dish near the discus, and use a long wide tube (like the uplift tube) to "guide" the worms to the dish. If the worms are the dried variety, they might need a soak before they will sink.

Tim

[Hattawi]

It is a new tank and its still cycling. I decided to add the discus initially after 6 weeks but I couldn’t' wait since the stock the LFS had was going to evaporate. I bought 6 fishes in advance and I took them from him after 1 week as he wanted to move his stock.

Why did I deal with that particular supplier? His fish were provided by a French breeder and they looked really good and healthy compared to the other stock I see in other shops. Other shops stock poor quality discus that are imported from Thailand mainly. I saw really bad specimens.

I was stuck in the tank size initially. I was following the general rule of 1 cm of fish length per square cm of surface area for oxygen exchange. That’s why I added an air pump with an air stone just in case. I did not know this forum and I did not have experience with discus fish when I made the purchases.

[Eddie]

Hello there and welcome!

Definitely gotta watch your water parameters if you haven't cycled the tank prior to the discus. Are you using a water conditioner to treat the water? Are you using aged water or directly from tap? The tank is quite small for your discus and the tank mates. The other thing is that it is a planted tank. If you want your fish to grow, you will need them to eat quality food often. With 6 in a tank that small, you'd easily need to be knocking out heavy WCs daily if you are gonna be feeding alot. If your fish are new, they are just getting settled. Once their appetite kicks in, you'll want to pump them up with food. It will be hard to keep your water parameters in check since your tank is cycling. Usually if your tank is cycling, its best to feed lightly as to not build excess ammonia and stress your fish.

Eddie

[Hattawi]

Thanks for your advice.

I threw a whole cube of bloodworms at the far left corner. I saw 2 discus fishes picking up the worms from the gravel but the rest did not come close. The main fish (brown reddish discus with stripes) is pecking on the rest. All of them are of equal size roughly.

Total ammonia is still at 0.5mg (according to the leaflet, free ammonia is at 0.009 mg/litre. PH is stable at 7.5. Nitrite undetectable. (Using Sera liquid tests)

I currently do 40% WC every day. Should I increase it?

The discus breathing rate (mouth movement for breathing) is roughly at 2 breaths per second. Is that too fast? The water temp is 31.

[Eddie]

Not sure about the breathing, that does seem fast though.

I'm not really sure what .5mg of ammonia is, I know what .5ppm is. Is that what you mean?

Being that your tank is cycling, you are in a very large predicament. I would be concerned about the health and safety of your fish before the amount they are eating. Definitely siphon out any uneaten food. If you do huge WCs, it will take forever to get your tank cycled. Is there any way you can get some bacteria in a bottle, like cycle or stability? They are not miracle workers but it will speed the process.

Can you get some Prime water conditioner? It is your ticket to success and it will keep your fish alive.

Eddie

[Hattawi]

Thanks again for you advice :)

Yes, 1 mg/litre = 1 ppm so 0.5 ppm is the correct value. As you know, free ammonia is determined by the PH so the free ammonia will be 0.009 ppm.

I did not come across Prime water conditioner in the local shops here. I looked it up and it looks good to use. 1 ml of the product treats 10 gallons which is a great value to start with. I will be looking for it. I don't think the ammonia is playing a major part in the tank currently because of the daily water changes I make.

I use Tetra Aquasafe (for chlorine & chloramine removal). I also used Tetra Freshstart which contains live bacteria that hopefully seeded the filter by now. I used it like 5 days ago.

[Eddie]

Okay, that makes sense then .5ppm of ammonia. Something else to think about is your water. Do you use straight tap water? Do you have chlorine or chloramines in your water. Reason I ask is because if you have chloramines (chlorine and ammonia combined) in your water, tetra aquasafe will break the bond between the ammonia and chlorine and this will just add to your existing ammonia. Aquasafe is supposed to be used with established aquariums, cycled aquariums. So even with heavy water changes, you are just dumping ammonia back into the tank. Make any sense? :o

Definitely need to get some Prime. It will detoxify ammonia and still allow your bio bacteria to build. Also with bottled bacteria, you literally have to dose the tank everyday until your nitrites zero out. Long process if you are changing water. I guess with a 7.5 PH though, the ammonia is not as toxic. The nitrites are the ones to worry about when they start climbing.

Eddie

[DiscussDiscus]

Hattawi

The Tetra smart start stuff does work in a pinch, so make sure you added the proper amount. I recently had the opportunity to rescue 9 juvenile discus from a 55 gallon tank with an aggressive adult arowana. Due to the harrassment they were getting, I did not have time to let a tank fully cycle, so it was lots and lots of smart-start (the bacteria enhancer) and 24 hours later the water parameters were reading proper to accept fish.

Your new discus will take a while to settle in, especially considering they have tank mates in a new environment.

Also, some things to keep in mind -- Discus (In my opinion) are very intelligent/observant fish. Take a look at the room they are in. Are there lots of unexpected sounds? Do the lights go on and off frequently? All these external variables can take a while for Discus to get used to. I certainly wouldn't suggest changing your life (or wait, maybe I would...) for your fish, but just be aware of it during their first week or two. For example, my rescue fish were put on the counter in my kitchen. I put a moratorium on the food processor in the sink and the dish-washer for two weeks, just so they wouldn't bee too alarmed by out-of-tank distractions.

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Keep us posted!
Lee