hey guy's, newbie with q?? and tank pics

[cuprajake]

hi guy's

seriously starting to think about discus,

i have had my tank for over 3 years now, so its well cycled,

tank size is 4ft x 2ft x 1.5ft, filterwise i have a 3ft sump, ehiem external and penplaxx external, tank is seriously overfiltered with the tank turning over 10-12 times an hour,

fish wise i currently keep mbuna cichlids, with ocean rock, water params around 8.2ph gh/kd of 12 but i have slowly been weining the water down in 5 gal water changes so im getting the tank back down to my tap water of 6.8-7.0 4kh/gh which is ideal for discus, kinda blessed with this water.


this is my tank now:


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P200508_214803.jpg

some mbuna incarnations

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P010308_195502.jpg

my frontosa before they went into a bigger tank

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/frontosa-1.jpg

i also set up a fish house for breeding my fish, i bread tanganyki, tropheus and mbuna, it was set up on a auto water change and the tropheus loved it, they were wild caught...and were a lovely fish. but the credit crucnh and all the running got a bit too much so i sold the stock.

then the tank was previously set up as an ei dosed co2 planted tank

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/DSC01312a.jpg

so right now im thinking about going for a biotope style tank, no greens, i already have dried sunatra mangroves to go in the tank, i have looked into real red mangroves which may also be going in, im planning a 3/4 full tank with uplighting and overhanging faulse green leaves to give the impression your looking into the amazon,

fish wise i will be keeping my lion plec, 3.5"

then looking at 5 or 7 juve discus, nothing special, then maybe a shoal of cardinal tetra's

cleaning crew im unsure of, i like clown loaches, but have heard they dont go to well with discus so any ideas would be good,

final thing is feeding, what sort of foods do people feed, the fish i have will be uk breeder bread, as there is a breeder close to me in rochdale


water change wise im looking at changing out 5 gallons a day, which will give me about 9% of the tank,

i plan on doing a semi automatic water change, having a tapped bucket to drip in the water over a period of an hour, then at night i can syphon out the 5 gallons then repeat in the morning,


im quite luck with my water, ph hovers around the 6.8-7.0 mark gh/kh are both below 10 too

im just waiting for my memory card reader then will post pics of the new tank later, i think its the best one i have done yet

regards jake

[cuprajake]

here the new biotope:

first i made a background, this is stood behind the glass to give depth

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P301208_1311.jpg

then the tank:

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P020109_1655.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P020109_165501.jpg

jake

[White Worm]

Hey Jake,
Sounds like you have alot of talent but I recommend you getting adults if you plant to have a complete tank immediately. Juvies should be grown in a BB tank so that it is very clean and gives them to the best chance to stay healthy and grow to their potential. Adults may be better suited for your purposes since they are not as sensitive to their surroundings. Juvies require many feedings and many large w/c's for their health and growth. Nice tanks by the way. BN plecos and sterbai are great for scavengers and dont bother the discus. Cards are a nice choice for the school. As far as food, you will want to look through the food threads because people feed discus many foods...BH, bits, shrimp, BW, live foods, etc. There is no end. A good start is frozen blood worms or live worms because I have never seen a discus turn those down unless they were sick. They can be pretty picky with other foods until they understand that you are the boss and they need to eat what you feed them. I am HIGHLY allergic to FBW so they are SOL. W/c's for discus should be much more than 9% daily no matter what you get. More like 50% every few days or 80-100% once a week.

[GrillMaster]

Welcome to "SD" Jake!! Very nice cichlid tank you have no dought. You also had quite the green thumb from the looks of your planted tank. :thumbsup:

What made you sway towards discus if you dont mind me askin?

WW gave some great advice as far as juvies are concerned but they can be grown out in a set up like you have. It has been proven before as long as you keep the maintenance up. Lots of feeding in order for them to grow to the best they can be means you need to stay on top of the water quality. If your tank is highly over filtered and you have a great cleanup crew you might get away with a lil less WC's. You will see for yourself what kind of waste will be left after each day if you feed them alot. Keep an eye on the water quality by testing the nitrates and phosphates. If they start to rise you will need to do larger WC's.

I have a feeling that if you feed your juvies the way they should be fed, you will be doing a lil more than 9% a day... :)

[cuprajake]

hi,

i was planning on corydoras as the clean up crew along with the plec that stayed,

water change i may have to rethink haha, just dont wat to do large changes where the fish get spooked,

i have some indian almond leaves comming too.

filtration wise i have:

the sump 3ft
ehiem 2200 iirc
penplaxx 1000
and a tetra tec 150

then i have the option of my fluval 2 external which i may just put floss in to polish the water, but dont know, with that lot im turning the tank well over 10 times lol....water hey!

[rickztahone]

where do you get those wood pieces? i want something along those lines that they look like they are coming from above the water. nice setup, but i do recommend you take the advise of the members here as they have a lot of experience. water changes are a huge deal with discus even if you do have great filtration

[mmorris]

I agree with White, although I am not convinced that it is I who is boss! Growing out juvies into big, nicely shaped adults is not complicated. Start with the best stock you can. Feed 6-8 times a day, and do huge wc's. I do 80% a day on my tanks with growing discus. I do almost 50% every other day on my 125 gal. with app. one adult discus per 10 gal. I wipe down everything inside the tank two or three times a week. Yes, it is possible to grow out discus in tanks with substrate, but I wouldn't do it and I certainly wouldn't recommend that someone who is new to discus try it. If (and when) you have a problem, the fewer variables there are to consider, the better. You've got a great looking setup that would really show off some nice adults.

[scottthomas]

Jake,

Great looking cichlid tanks! I also used to breed tropheus and kept many tanganyikan cichlids for almost 20 years. I switched to discus about 5 years ago. I used to just read posts here for several years before I joined the forum recently. My biggest mistake was trying to grow out discus in a planted tank with substrate. Very difficult to do. You will find many experts to help you as they did me. But, IMO discus have cost me a lot more money and time than keeping African cichlids. Discus really are a hobby that takes time and a lot of water changes! I wish that I had a large fish room so that I could still keep the Africans. I love my discus but do miss the tropheus. Good luck! PS. many people do like corys but they sometimes go banannas for no reason and frighten my discus so I dont keep them any more.

Scott

[cuprajake]

hey guy's

well bit the bullet!! went to look at the discus breeders stock, he had fish ranging in size, from babies to adults to pairs, hi setup was really clean and well cared for, i took the advice and went for the larger fish,

i went for a group of 5 he said they were about 9 months old, size wise, the smallest is about 3.5" fin to fin vertically, checked all the eye sizes etc , the largest is about 4.5" id say.

god knows what i bought lol, very amatuerish thing to do haha, but i have a couple with spots and the rest jaguar markings, some really nice fish though.

i also got some of his food, dry tetra discus food, he does vary though, i aclimatised, them etc but checked his water to mine and our waters were practically the same, i also added black water tonic.

i also got the clean up crew:

Salt and Pepper corydoras x4


and the dither fish:

Black Neon Tetra x25

before pics, just a few ????
i gave the fish time to settle in, before the lights were dimly put on, approx 5hrs... none of the fish have coloured down, i have one pearl white that is hiding, near the durso, but does pop its head out, think its just shy lol- hopefully. i fed them sparingly but they didn't take any food that i saw, but thats expected, the corys liked it though, will discus feed off the substrate???, one has. also can i use normal tropical flake for the other fish???

pics are really crappy, need to learn how to do them, and clean the back of my tank too lol
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_183002.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_1831.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_183102.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_1833.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_183301.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_192802.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/P030109_192601.jpg
comments and tips very welcome haha
jake

[Eddie]

Nice set-up Jake, like the look of the tank.
Eddie

I just wanted to add that I liked the planted tank the best. A group of nice blue turqs or cobalts would have set that whole thing off!

[cuprajake]

well, had a good long think last night about a w/c system,,,,



and have been drilling holes in my kitchen,



the grey lines added are 15mm pipe, i used this in the fish house, one will connect to my water butt/submersibel pump, this will pump into a 10+ litre container, the container will have an hole, with check valve inserted into the bottom and an air line tube to the tank, the water on timer fill fill the container then the water will slowly fill the tank via the airline tube till empty. there will be an over flow in the sump attached to the other pipe which will go out side as waste.



by calculating the changing :



The drip system will change 9.52 % of the Tank's water in one day and 18.13 % in two days.

Assuming no additional pollutants are added, drip system will replace 50.34 % of the Tank's water in a week.



http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y192/cuprajake/fishchange1.jpg



jake

[plecocicho]

Jake, welcomme to simply! Your tank looks superb (to bad that photos are bad...)!:D. Discus look just fine, although in a setu like these with adding some floated plants wild discus would look amazing.:p

[cuprajake]

think i might stay away from live food stuff then, and try to mix it up with different pellets,

got up this moring and they hadn't touched the beef heart mix :( then looking into the tank i startled one and it went crazy for a few seconds, and nearly jumped but went up into the floating fake plants then settles down, they were all hiding in the corner near the overflow as that is hidden out of sight,

so i now have the lights coming on 30mins before i get up, so i can go down ,and not startle them and feed them,

today i will get my piping and rig up the water changer,

jake

[1077]

I have discus that will spend up to an hour foraging along the bottom for food after feedings. I too have corys and trumpet snails for bottom duty. The beef heart fouls the water quickly if what is not eaten isn't removed. Tetra color bits appear to be a favorite and are easy for the fish to see on the substrate. I keep four discus in an 80 gal and perform 25 to 30 percent water changes four times a week. I also keep threadfin rainbows in the tank along with a whitespot pleco.Were it me i would want at least 75 percent of the water changed out each week assuming the fish are adults .frozen blood worms, omni cichlid flake, freeze dried daphnia, spirulina based freeze dried brine shrimp, emerald entree, frozen krill (chopped) cichlid attack, wardleys tropical goldfish flake (gourmet blend), Sallys seaweed salad, beef heart, are just a few of the foods enjoyed by my fish. Variety in my view makes for happier and healthier fish.:)

[FLGirl1977]

Nice set up. I love the way the branches look like roots cascading down in the water. Good job. :)

[cuprajake]

thanks for the advice, i will see if i can up the wc a bit more,

i have tetra pro too which they do seem to be taking,

cheers jake

ps i want to get them to hand feed eventually

[Triadtropz]

nice tanks..I like the biotope you've created..good luck with the fish..

[cuprajake]

well plumbed it in last night, and got it all working, its a shame the water but is so far away, and the temp really dropped last night to -7 so i think i now have some frozen water in my pipes, but it only happens for about 3 weeks out of the year.



i now have the submercible in the waterbutt, this is on a timer, and comes on for 12 mins in the morning and 12 mins at night, the pipe work rises up to the house through the kitchen and into the back area of the tank, where it flows(slowly) into a collection tub (15l) on top of my sump, the tub is drilled at the top, like a normal tank would be - then has an overflow to take excess water into the return compartment of the sump. heres the good bit, the holding tank has a heater in there so the water that is left, pretty much 15l is heated and as the fresh water is pumped in, it mixes and takes the chill off it.



i then have a small fountin pump also located in the last compartment of the sump, this is connected to the waste pipe, this turns on for one minute in the morning, just before the water in gets turned on, and then on for one minute at night too, again just before the fresh water is pumped in, and that is



im currently pumping in 22l a day and taking out about the same, i need to jiggle with the timers to make sure i take out and put enough in obs but so far it works great, well when its not frozen haha



jake

[cuprajake]

btw if i do up chnages and add another interval making it 3 times a day, it will change from 50% a week change to 73% change a week

[White Worm]

With a drip system, you are not changing the amount of water you think you are unless you have done some thorough calculations because with a drip/overflow, you are not just removing the dirty water but the new water also. A drain / fill is more accurate as far as % changed.

"Assuming no additional pollutants are added" :confused:

pollutants are always being added. looks like you got some nice discus and with some close observation and a clean environment, they should do fine.

[cuprajake]

yeah the first calculations were from a drip system, which obviously dilutes...now im on a drain and fill, so timers set pumps off twice a day, i drain 10l out then 10mins later add 12l, the additionl 4l a day gives me enough water to vac the bottom of the tank with, so adds up to a 70% ish change a week