domestic water storage

[Peachtree Discus]

i was thinking of a way to store water using my existing water bins, so that i can fill from my heated water source....without having to move the pump from bin to bin... i know lots of us are using garbage cans, so i was thinking, how can i store more water, but "over there". so i thought of the following design. i am no physics expert, but gravity should allow this to work...i think.

if all 5 water bins are sitting on a level surface, will the water levels in all the bins remain the same when draining and filling?

[subcooler]

No Physics genius here either, but...
Your drawing shows no way to direct makeup water(faucet) into the remote bank of barrells.Wouldn't it just travel to the single barrell your pumping from (without ever reaching remote barrells)?
Unless your going to put a ball valve on each side if the "T" fitting in your drawing, to direct water flow which ever way you desire.

I would have a dedicated line going to the furthest remote barrell from faucet.Keep in mind that increasing make-up water pipe size over 3/4" is not needed ,as you likely only have 3/4" pipe upto faucet.Usually 1/2" copper pipe upto faucet.

Another observation: Is your pump going to move that much water to require 1" or larger PVC between all your water storage barrells? I doubt you'd need over 3/4" PVC between all the barrells!Smaller pipe size will save you $$$$$ on pipe & fittings!

I would have your remote storage barrels each a bit higher as you move further away from last barrell with pump-to ensure that gravity makes this operation fly!

What are you planning on using to penetrate the barrells & still keep them leak free? I'd use a hole saw & get tank bulkheads(JEHMco)sells them.I guess you could try sealtight electrical fittings(have used them in the past for tapping a storage barrell).They are available @ Lowe's/Home Depot.
Best of luck with your project -Keep us posted

Rob

[Peachtree Discus]

i really appreciate the feedback....

i understand how the ball valves would ensure water travels to each barrel. but since "water travels the path of least resistance" - i was thinking that gravity would ensure they fill (and drain) at equal levels even without ball valves. when the water level in 1 bin is slightly higher than another - the water will travel the direction of least resistance - to the bin with the lowest level. i am thinking, if you filled until a single bin overflowed - all of the bins should be very close to overflowing.

how to reliably connect the bins was going to be my next concern. rather than saying pvc, i'll say...i was thinking that some 1inch or larger connection between the bins would help ensure the water remains level across all bins...basically preventing one bin from filling too fast because of a bottleneck at the connection to the next bins, ...thought as you say, it may be overkill.

pls feel free to "blow me out of the water" if i am wrong on any of this.

[Tropical Haven]

With all the barrels connected together if you drain from one they will all go down at the same time.

[discussmith]

That is only true if the pipes connecting the barrells are large enough to match or exceed the flow rate of the pump or tap water pressure, as gravity has no or very low pressure compared to a pump or house pressure. My pump out and fill pipes are 3/4" but I had to connect my barrells together with 1-1/4" fittings raise and lower water levels at almost the same rate.

[Peachtree Discus]

great news!! glad this design can work....and glad to hear that someone has experience with a similar design. how did you connect your barrels...bulkheads? or pvc? bulkheads seem pretty slick, but cost :(. any complaints about this design? or any suggested improvements?

only related issue i notice.....i had 1 bin that developed a leak and i realize how. i noticed my current bins have a few small spots in the bottom that have melted. evidently the heaters have burned spots in the bottom of the bins. great! :balloon:(pop)

[FLGirl1977]

Very cool idea, I was wondering how to store more water as well, while being easily accessible to get the 'can' to my tank. Can you take some actual pictures of how you attached the 'cans' all together? and of the whole system?

BTW, LOVE your diagram... especially with your little smiley emoticons representing your fish! LOL!. ;)

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Ok, this design will work quite well. Instead of a typical bulkhead fitting which requires a flush surface (aquarium for example), use a Uniseal available at Aquatic Eco Systems: www.aquaticeco.com (http://www.aquaticeco.com) They are cheap and very easy to use. I have never had a problem with them.

Also, instead of connecting the barrels as described in your diagram I suggest that you have a single line going infront of the barrels....lets say a 1.5" line. Infront of each barrel have a T which connects into the barrel itself via a Uniseal (use a reducer bushing to go from 1.5" to say 1" pipe). I also suggest having a valve at each barrel before the T. This will allow you to isolate each barrel incase you are making water with different parameters (RO water for example, but you only need 1 barrel worth). And yes you can have a float valve in 1 barrel that will fill the entire setup.

-Ryan

[discussmith]

I will attemp to show how I did it by capturing some pics from a flip video camera I got for Christmas. The three pics show what the connections look like, the pieces involved, and what it looks like on the inside. FYI I was mistaken about the size. They are 1 1/2" not 1 1/4". I have connected three 55 gal. barrels. The parts are very common plumbing cpvc fittings and rubber couplings with stainless clamps. The black ring I used as a gasket on the inside is nothing more than the ends of the rubber coupling cut off with a razor knife and used on the male adapter which is on the inside of the barrel. The smaller holes are to stick a long 1/2" cpvc pipe into to hold the fitting in place from above while I screw the reducing coupling on the outside. I used silicone sealer on the threads of the cpvc reducing coupling to ensure a water tight seal. The cpvc fittings are less than $1.00 each and the rubber couplings were around $3.00 each if I remember correctly. Even with 1 1/2" the first barrel will fill just alittle faster than the other two by about 1/2" to 3/4" before the water shuts off.

[Hattawi]

I totally agree with Ryan. Infact, if you follow his suggestion, you will end up with a better setup. You will drill less holes and you will have total control on the water flow.

Remember, with your current setup, if 1 barrel leaks, the whole lot of water will just leak out aswell.

[Ed13]

Yup. it'll work!
Actually this is pretty much how this 200g puppies are plumbed, except as Ryan said instead of plumbing from tank to tank each has it's own drain line with ball valve. Only one has a fill line as, both drain at the same time, both fill at the same time as water looks to equate pressures.

Instead of a submersible pump though, I would invest in a linear.

[Absolute Angels]

Here's mine...

Barrel Closet...
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_003.jpg

Close up of the bulkheads connected together
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_005.jpg

Float Valve in first barrel
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_006.jpg

Pump is a Quiet One 6000. In the third barrel...connected to a set of valves in the fishroom. I can circulate the water in the barrels or pump it to the tanks. Controlled inside my fishroom.
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_007.jpg

Inside the fishroom...I can control where I want the water to go. First valve goes back to barrels(to circulate) and the second valve goes to the fill hose to the tanks.
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_001.jpg

Finished...Insulation(Reflectix) does wonders.
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_012.jpg

~Stacy

[Peachtree Discus]

...with your current setup, if 1 barrel leaks, the whole lot of water will just leak out as well.

owwwwh, great point! i appreciate all the feedback. ok, i will go with the suggested changes in design. those pictures really motivate me to get started. i agree - a linear pump will be a better. Stacy - could not view your pics...can't wait to see them when i get home.

a couple of additional questions. why circulate? ...and, what do you suggesting for heating? an in-line heater?

[Peachtree Discus]

stacey... :shocked: sweeeet

seems these shops only only carry toilet type float valves. i saw a couple of float valves on the jehmco website but not like the one in the pic below. any idea where i might find one of these?



http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd335/absoluteangels/water_change_006.jpg

[Absolute Angels]

I got this float from my local farm store...you might check there or let me know and I can get you one at cost(like $7) plus shipping. Send me a PM if interested.

~Stacy

[jeff@zina.com]

but since "water travels the path of least resistance"

It doesn't really. Water has only one property, it seeks it's own level. If you have five barrels connected by pipes, in an open system, and pour water into one, it will equalize to the same level in all five. You do get to deal with volume and flow rates, but as long as the inflow of water to the system isn't greater than the route to each barrel, there's no real issue.

Jeff

[Peachtree Discus]

i totally scrapped this project. :o i realized i was pumping straight up about 3' to get out of the bin, then again straight up another 3' to 6' to get to the top 75. entirely too slow.

thanks for the feedback.

[jeff@zina.com]

i totally scrapped this project. :o i realized i was pumping straight up about 3' to get out of the bin, then again straight up another 3' to 6' to get to the top 75. entirely too slow.

You just needed a bigger pump. GPH diminishes with the head (vertical pumping distance), a proper sized pump would fix that. The alternative is lifting the barrels.

Jeff

[Peachtree Discus]

a stronger pump would mask the problem, but still IMO, still not efficient. Yes, I lifted the water source. As my water needs increased, so was my concern about leaks - so i eliminated the bins. for now i am using a spare 75 to hold/heat the water. I am looking for an alternative.