nitrAte question

[mugzy213]

I pretty new the keeping discus and fish for that matter but I dont understand everytime i test my water the nitrate alway reads o or yellow. some times alittle orange but always seems to be yellow? does this mean my tank is not cycled?

I have had the fish for about a month now.

I do a 30 % every day

2- 4" discus and 2 babies in a 55 gallon

i use day old r/o water and add minerals.

so what can i do get some nitrate's?

ph 6.6
nitrite 0
ammonia 0

temp 82

storage water 82

[Eddie]

Maybe not change water until you have some ammonia/nitrite reading. Changing water everyday in a tank that is not cycled will take a long time to cycle. Another thing you can do is get a hold of some bacteria in bottle, like SafeStart or something like that. Try throwing some of that in the tank, don't change the water, feed lightly and wait to get some readings.


Eddie

[mugzy213]

ok thanks, ill goto to the fish store(again)!:)

safestart wont hurt fish? how long should i wait to change my water? just until it get some nitrate's?


thanks!

[Eddie]

ok thanks, ill goto to the fish store(again)!:)

safestart wont hurt fish? how long should i wait to change my water? just until it get some nitrate's?


thanks!

Follow the instructions on the bottle, you may be required to do no water changes for a certain amount of time. The process should go alot faster since you've had the tank going a month already. Might even be less than a few days. No telling.

Good luck

Eddie

[mugzy213]

thanks for all your help! :) I dont know where I'd be with out this website!


Hal

[Roxanne]

....alittle orange but always seems to be yellow? does this mean my tank is not cycled?

..
so what can i do get some nitrate's?

ph 6.6
nitrite 0
ammonia 0

temp 82

storage water 82

Somethings not right here...you can't have 0 ammonia....unless, the tank is cycled.. are you taking your readings before or after water changes? .if you are using API test kit, you have got to shake the bottle REALLY well before use and shake the sample really well also to get an accurate reading...

Your ph is also very low so your bacteria can't multiply at the rate you would expect...

If it isn't cycled, your fish are going to experience the nitrite surge, so keep salt handy to help them through it...

[mugzy213]

Somethings not right here...you can't have 0 ammonia....unless, the tank is cycled.. are you taking your readings before or after water changes? .if you are using API test kit, you have got to shake the bottle REALLY well before use and shake the sample really well also to get an accurate reading...

Your ph is also very low so your bacteria can't multiply at the rate you would expect...

If it isn't cycled, your fish are going to experience the nitrite surge, so keep salt handy to help them through it...

Im taking the test after water changes. should i put some salt in there anyways?

[mugzy213]

what is the best ph to have?

I just tested ph for

tap = 7.2

storage barrels = 6.8

tank = 6.6 ish

should i do a big water change?

[Roxanne]

No...First, take your readings right before the next water change and post them here so we can tell where your cycle is at. Leave your ph where it is for now...

(Only add salt if there is a nitrite surge...)

[mugzy213]

ok ill test it tomorrow afternoon:)

thanks

[jeremy calkin]

hey just checking do u have sponge filter for bacteria to live in [u said u r new to fish]

[csarkar001]

No...First, take your readings right before the next water change and post them here so we can tell where your cycle is at. Leave your ph where it is for now...

(Only add salt if there is a nitrite surge...)

what is the advantage of adding salt when there is a nitrite surge?

[Eddie]

http://freshaquarium.about.com/cs/disease/p/nitritepoison.htm

Eddie

[mugzy213]

hey just checking do u have sponge filter for bacteria to live in [u said u r new to fish]

yeah i have 2 Sponge filters

[mugzy213]

ok just re tested my water

ammonia .25
nitrate 0 (kinda between yellow and orange)
nitrite 0
ph 6.6

so should a do a big water change or jsut the standard 30%

[mugzy213]

ok just re tested my water

ammonia .25
nitrate 0 (kinda between yellow and orange)
nitrite 0
ph 6.6

so should a do a big water change or jsut the standard 30%

im going to quote my self:)

i retested again and ammonia was at 0... why would it change in 15 mins?

[calihawker]

I've found that testing with liquid test kits is akin to an art form. The method needs to be precise and even then results can vary. I can't recommend a specific kit over another but make sure to follow the instructions precisely and like roxanne said, especially with the API kits give the titrant a real good shake. I almost always do tests back to back to back to verify results. But then I hardly ever test.


Steve

[Roxanne]

im going to quote my self:)

i retested again and ammonia was at 0... why would it change in 15 mins?

I'm wondering why you have no nitrate at all...it's possible it is not mature enough to read high nitrate, but cycled enough to be converting the ammonia.......did you ever read nitrite during the cycle?

Do me a favour...take a cup and fill it with water from different places in the tank, then take your sample from that cup...shake the nitrate bottles until YOU turn purple...then, shake the sample for a good 20 seconds and keep shaking it every few seconds until the 5 minutes has elapsed, then tell us what it says...if it isn't yellow, you have some nitrate kicking around, so you are newly cycled and won't show a really high read anyway...

I second what Steve says about the test kits..

Roxanne

[discusjoe27]

what dechloranator and chemical if any (ph up,ph down,tetra black extract etc)
do you use.

hope this makes since. ;) welcome.
First, let me say that trying to provide live bacteria in a bottle, stored under ambient conditions, is a non-starter. The bacteria are far too fragile and few would survive. However, under conditions of environmental stress or deprivation, many species of bacteria will undergo SPORE formation. Essentially they condense and toughen to form durable survival structures, designed to protect their DNA and basic metabolic machinery. This is what Seachem has done in the laboratory. After the spores are collected, a chemical inhibitor is added that prevents the bacterial spores from reverting to the original vegetative state. When the spore solution is added to the aquarium, the inhibitor is diluted and the spores return to their original, metabolically active state. Bacterial spores should be able to survive easily for at least three years under ambient conditions. To me, this represents a simple, logical and robust approach to rapid cycling. The species of bacterial spores provided in the Stability formulation is proprietary. For fans of Biospira (I am one), I don't know if it's included or not...but it really doesn't matter. All you really want to achieve is a stable population of bacteria which are oxidizing ammonia and nitrite. Biospira (and other bacterial species) are ubiquitous and if they have a growth advantage in the filter, they will eventually outpopulate the other bacterial species.

Regarding my personal experience with Stability, I add it to my discus tank with every 20-30 procent water change every week.. Changes in ammonia, nitrite and nitrate were monitored with two different test kits/methods. I was quite impressed with this product.

question how long does prime stay "active" in a dechoranated tank?
I am curious as when I do my 50% water changes I dose for the whole tank. I am curious how long the unused prime floats around and what happens to it? Where would it go ?Thanks this would help solve a multitude of questions for me.I think after 48 hours it is mostly broken down.What would it be broken down in to? Salt and Water.Prime works by binding whatever the reactor element is with Chlorine and the Chlorine part of Chloramine. If you have prime jsut hanging out in your tank, and it doesn't react with anything it stays in there as prime until it encounters more chlorine, or it evaporates (about 24-48 hours or so).Nice , What makes it evaporate so quick? I would think that might depend on the stocking level and the amount used. Since fish are always secreting free ammonia, Prime will find those and bind to them. Although your ammonia test shows a high reading sometimes with Prime it is actually reading the converted safe ammonium levels so it will take several days for the free ammonia to get back up to toxic levels. This is my understanding and why I think it is probably unnecesssary to dose every 48 hours because that is the time it probably takes to break down in a "normal" tank. If your tank is uncycled and you have tons of free ammonia or chlorine in the water it may be neutralized at a much faster rate. So, really it probably depends on your tap water chlorine/ chloramine levels, the amount you dose, the period you are in your cycle, and your stocking level. They probably interact and why Prime is just a temporary band-aid to help correct water quality problems and why you can up the dosage depending on that. That may be why Prime is so good, it is so concentrated it is hard to screw things up and probably hard to under-dose your tank.Well, I have to admit that I don't know exacty what they use in Prime, but I DO KNOW that it contains sulfur and it also claims to be able to bind and detoxify ammonia and nitrite. Based upon that information, the key chemical constituent of Prime probably has two reactive centers:

* A carbon which reacts with the nitrogen found in ammonia and nitrite.
* A sulfur that reacts with the chlorine in Cl2 and chloramine.

When the carbon reacts with an ammonia molecule, a water molecule is split off and the ammonia becomes locked into a larger, non-toxic molecule that is eventually metabolized by the bacteria. If the sulfur reacts with a chloramine, [NaCl + ammonia] are formed and the free ammonia then reacts with the carbon, as previously described. I may not have hit it dead-on, but it probably works something like that. So how long does Prime last after it is added to the tank? I would guess that even unreacted Prime can be metabolized by the bacteria. So, when the pump is turned back on after the wc, both complexed and unreacted Prime molecules probably go to the filter and are meabolized by the bacteria. These bacteria are referred to as "facultative" and basically, that means that if they see something containing a carbon, they find a way to eat it. Of course, the aquarium contains many things which contain nitrogen, but the three key reactants would be: chloramine, ammonia and nitrite. Personally, I'm curious about what happens to the sulfur. I should look into that one of thee days.a lot of sulfur is in well water and a air stone can help remove it. As far as it dissipating or precipitating I am not sure. I would guess it maked sulfur dioxide and is gassed off.

[Roxanne]

...trying to provide live bacteria in a bottle, stored under ambient conditions, is a non-starter. The bacteria are far too fragile and few would survive. However, under conditions of environmental stress or deprivation, many species of bacteria will undergo SPORE formation. Essentially they condense and toughen to form durable survival structures, designed to protect their DNA and basic metabolic machinery. This is what Seachem has done in the laboratory. After the spores are collected, a chemical inhibitor is added that prevents the bacterial spores from reverting to the original vegetative state. When the spore solution is added to the aquarium, the inhibitor is diluted and the spores return to their original, metabolically active state. Bacterial spores should be able to survive easily for at least three years under ambient conditions. To me, this represents a simple, logical and robust approach to rapid cycling. The species of bacterial spores provided in the Stability formulation is proprietary. For fans of Biospira (I am one), I don't know if it's included or not...but it really doesn't matter. All you really want to achieve is a stable population of bacteria which are oxidizing ammonia and nitrite. Biospira (and other bacterial species) are ubiquitous and if they have a growth advantage in the filter, they will eventually outpopulate the other bacterial species.

....

I'm lost...what are those "bacteria" going to live on unless there is an ammonia source anyway?

Roxanne

[Graham]

Kind of talking apples and oranges here. The nitrifying bacteria, autotrophs, that we generally rely on, are aerobic and cannot form spores. These are the nitrifying bottled bacteria that have a very short shelf life, if one at all. Bio-spira is like that. Some species have been developed that have some shelf life but not much

Bacteria that can form spores are heterotrophic and they may be aerobic, anaerobic or facilitative. The spores that they form don't need anthing and can sit in a bottle on a shelf for years.

Rox Septic tank bacterial additives are basically what's in most of these bottled bacterial products...sludge eaters

[calihawker]

Rox Septic tank bacterial additives are basically what's in most of these bottled bacterial products...sludge eaters


Does that mean I can go and get scoop full out of my septic tank to do my cycle?


Uugh! I could have gone the rest of the day without posting that:p




Steve

[Graham]

It would give you a bacterial count;):D

[discusjoe27]

yeah it would basiclly give you bactria, but yes you would need ammonia.

[Graham]

Actually hetertrophic bacteria don't really need NH3 as an energy source as nitrifiers do. They get thier carbon via the decay of organic material through the process of mineralization