Normal Behavior & Cycling Q

[carriej]

As this is my first time keeping Discus, I just thought I'd double check.

I got my Discus on Sunday (3) and they are now in a bare bottom 29 gallon because my 55 gallon is not yet cycled. They will be going into this soon as the cycling should be done in a week give or take. Almost there ;)

When I first picked them up they just kind of hung out in the corner and they were eating (discus flakes, tetra bits, bloodworms) and I haven't had a problem getting them to eat anything (sometimes it takes them a few mins though, but they always eat)

Anyway now they are schooling back and forth in the tank and what my Fiance calls "moonwalking" (aka : swimming backwards) they seem to do that a lot, is it normal for them to swim backwards so much?

I've been doing daily water changes of 50%. But here's the problem.. This tank was already cycled when the Discus were put in, but I don't know if the big water changes in the past couple changes did it but it seems to have uncycled. What should I do? The water also seems cloudy, even though there is nothing in there but water and Discus. None of my other aquariums are cloudy. The Discus seem lively and OK but I just want to do this right.

Also, how often should I rinse the filter cartridges? I have pantyhose over my filter instead of a prefilter sponge as I couldn't find anything that fit over my filter properly.

Let me know!
Thanks,
Carrie

[seanyuki]

Hi Carrie,

I start everything from scratch....new tank,new heater,new sponge filter etc plus 80% water change daily.

You can have the tank running and put in discus and try to feed slowly for the first 2 weeks ...gradually reaching to normal feeding rate or the rate you prefer. By then, the biological filtration will be establishes and working effectively bi itself.

If you were to use a filter media or any equipment from another tank or another culture, you might just accidently innoculate disease from the other fishes to your further discus and that disease may not be harmful to the existing because the fishes there already got the immune but introducing it to the new discus might just make the discus sick if not mortality.

Just my 2 cents.


Cheers
Francis:)

[carriej]

I am all aware about the bacteria, I was just using that term in lack of a better expression; rather than explaining it all out I just used to term "uncycled" and figured you guys would get the idea.

I cycled the tank with ammonia, and my 55 is also being cycled with ammonia. The 55 is just taking a long time to cycle, it's on it's 6th week now and still isn't showing 0 ammonia.

Thanks for your answers.

[jerbear]

I cycled the tank with ammonia, and my 55 is also being cycled with ammonia. The 55 is just taking a long time to cycle, it's on it's 6th week now and still isn't showing 0 ammonia.

Thanks for your answers.

Carrie you need to put in at least 4-5ppm to get the cycled started..Have you ever had an ammonia reading?

[carriej]

I think I have been misunderstood, what I was saying is that my ammonia levels are still high, and not decreasing as they should. My ammonia reading is 5, and my nitrites is .5-1 and my nitrates are 0. I have never cycled a bare bottom tank before though, and it seems to be more difficult than cycling a tank with substrate and driftwood/plants etc.

[Eddie]

I think I have been misunderstood, what I was saying is that my ammonia levels are still high, and not decreasing as they should. My ammonia reading is 5, and my nitrites is .5-1 and my nitrates are 0. I have never cycled a bare bottom tank before though, and it seems to be more difficult than cycling a tank with substrate and driftwood/plants etc.

I basically do exactly as Francis mentioned above. Start fresh and the filters will cycle with fish in tank. Many don't recommend cycling with discus but I always have. I do like to get some bio in a bottle to get it all going though.

Sounds like your cycle stalled out.

Eddie

[carriej]

Tank is at 83 degrees as I've been getting it ready for the Discus, kH is around 3.5-4 and pH is about 7.3. I use regular tap water for my water changes (not aged, my pH does not change if water is aged) which is city water.

[TankWatcher]

I do like to get some bio in a bottle to get it all going though. what bio do you use, Eddie?

[Eddie]

what bio do you use, Eddie?

Japanese Brand called Bio, LOL. Works like champ.

I actually had a huge kick on the bio on one of my tanks when doing the double dose of F&MG. I used Tetra SafeStart and it was back 100% overnight. I think it is a pretty good product.

Eddie

[carriej]

Yes I de-chlorinate the water with Prime, been using that for a few years now. Pretty sure all my fish would be dead if I didn't use it LOL, considering my tap water reeks of chlorine.

Tested the water this morning and nitrites are a smidgen higher. Might be taking effect after all.

[Roxanne]

.... you come along and add a number of discus and feed heavily they are going to produce a lot of NH3, in comparsion to the fish that had been in there. The bio-film now has to play catch up, building itself to be able handle all this new food source.

..

;)....hence high ammonia readings...watch out for a nitrite spike now

[TankWatcher]

TW unless you're buying one of the very good actual real bacteria starters the rest are snake oils; ...save your moneyI know, but I was just curious, more than anything else.

...But, a strange thing was happening at the time of my question with my cycled filter, which I couldn't understand. I guess I was looking for a real miracle - but problem seems to have rectified itself last night:-


this canister filter was filter no. 2 on a tank running for 2 years.

Due to recent death of 4 discus (suspected pesticide poisoning), since mid March 09 it only had a light bio load of 2 adult discus & 6 adult sterbai cories.

28 April - 2 Challenge fish moved in (thanks Rox) & previous residents moved out

canister filter no 2 moved to a known healthy tank with 8 adult discus & 6 adult sterbai (to keep it cycled)

2 May - Canister filter no 2 moved to small QT set up for new juvi discus, plus 1 stunted "hero" juvi as a companion. Tank has 50% wc daily

4 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 1.0 for ammonia :confused: Panic mode. 75% wc, added Seachem stability (snake oil, yes I know)

5 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 0.5 for ammonia, 75% wc, added Seachem stability

6 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 0 for ammonia. 75% wc, added Seachem stability

7 May - If QT with canister filter no 2 still tests 0 for ammonia tonight, I'll go back to 50%wc & no Seachem stability


I don't know why i had those ammonia readings, but glad it got back on track fairly quickly.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, carriej. It is similar topic, so I hope you don't mind.

[Eddie]

I know, but I was just curious, more than anything else.

...But, a strange thing was happening at the time of my question with my cycled filter, which I couldn't understand. I guess I was looking for a real miracle - but problem seems to have rectified itself last night:-


this canister filter was filter no. 2 on a tank running for 2 years.

Due to recent death of 4 discus (suspected pesticide poisoning), since mid March 09 it only had a light bio load of 2 adult discus & 6 adult sterbai cories.

28 April - 2 Challenge fish moved in (thanks Rox) & previous residents moved out

canister filter no 2 moved to a known healthy tank with 8 adult discus & 6 adult sterbai (to keep it cycled)

2 May - Canister filter no 2 moved to small QT set up for new juvi discus, plus 1 stunted "hero" juvi as a companion. Tank has 50% wc daily

4 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 1.0 for ammonia :confused: Panic mode. 75% wc, added Seachem stability (snake oil, yes I know)

5 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 0.5 for ammonia, 75% wc, added Seachem stability

6 May - QT with canister filter no 2 tested 0 for ammonia. 75% wc, added Seachem stability

7 May - If QT with canister filter no 2 still tests 0 for ammonia tonight, I'll go back to 50%wc & no Seachem stability


I don't know why i had those ammonia readings, but glad it got back on track fairly quickly.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, carriej. It is similar topic, so I hope you don't mind.

Glad to hear you got everything under control Robyn. Stability isn't too bad of product. Didn't work for me last time but maybe you got a good batch. ;)

Take care,

Eddie

[TankWatcher]

Thanks Eddie, but why did it happen. Like Graham said to carriej, filters don't un-cycle themselves. It wasn't like it went from a small bio load to a huge bio load - that I would have understood. The bio load it went to was the smaller load.

Who knows if the stability (or snake oil) did anything or not. I've never used it before. Maybe the filter just got over what ever minor thing shook it up (shrug)

[Roxanne]

I.I don't know why i had those ammonia readings, but glad it got back on track fairly quickly.

Sorry for hijacking your thread, carriej. It is similar topic, so I hope you don't mind.

...you had some die off, but a mature filter will catch up real quick...without the 'help' of Seachem....

umm...you are moving that canister filter around from tank to tank?.....can I ask why, Watcher of Tanks?:)

[TankWatcher]

...you had some die off, but a mature filter will catch up real quick...without the 'help' of Seachem....

umm...you are moving that canister filter around from tank to tank?.....can I ask why, Watcher of Tanks?:)

Yeah, that's what I figure too. But using the snake oil at least made me feel I doing something (when I don't think there was really anything to do but wait).

But, it's the reason for the die off that's puzzling. Just glad it caught up again quick, as I didn't like to see that positive ammonia test happening at all.

I moved the filter because it was a known healthy filter that was not needed on the tank it was on. The 2 Challenge fish were moving into that tank & they were being treated with sterazin for possible flukes. To save that filter being exposed to the flukes, I moved it to the wild brown tank just before the 2 Challenge fish moved in. That way it would stay cycled. Then I decided it may as well go where it was needed more - to the QT tank of my new little white albino pearl (who's name is Peta Pearl BTW). That tank only had a sponge filter (which was cycled from being in the wild brown tank for some time prior).

So that was the reason for musical chairs with the filter :D

Hope that makes sense.