How I manage water quality....

[Chad Hughes]

Well, I've finally taken the time to snap off a few shots of the filtration system that I employ on my discus tanks. Attached are some pictures of the contest tank's filtration.

I basically run two filters. The canister (Fluval 405) is the biological powerhouse. It's contents are simply foam pads for mechanical filtration and ceramic biomedia. I won't explain away the canister. I think we all know how that works.

The second filter (wet/dry) is where I do all my voodoo magic. LOL! The wet/dry gives me surface skimming via an overflow box plus gives me room to put all the stuff that I need to make plants grow and keep water crystal clear and DOC free.

The wet/dry works like this...

Water leaves the tank through the "siphon" overflow box. It passes through a prefilter in the overflow and travels down to the sump. The water then trickles through filter floss and drips through a perforated plate down in to the bio ball chamber. Once the water makes it through the bio balls my pumps and reactors take over!

First, the water enters a protein skimmer. Now, protein skimmers don't really do much for a freshwater tank, but the manner it which it whips water around makes it a great ozone reactor plus it has a built in venturi. The water enters the protein skimmer and is injected with ozone. The ozone increases the ORP (oxidation-reduction potential) of the water and increases it's ability to break down dissolved organics.

The water then spews from the protein skimmer and is sucked up by the return pump/CO2 reactor. The return pump simply delivers that water from the sump back to the tank. While it's returning water to the tank It also delivers CO2 to the plants. The tank's CO2 is controlled by a Ph meter. Based on the KH of the tank, I set the Ph meter to allow the controller to dispense CO2 to the tank in order to maintain 30ppm CO2. When the controller senses a rise in Ph, it applies the CO2 to the return pump. The return pump pulverizes the CO2 bubbles and pumps the freshly mixed CO2 water back to the tank.

Before the water makes it back to the tank, it passes through a carbon reactor. Since I am using ozone, it's important to pass the ozone treated water through carbon before sending it back to the tank. Ozone can be as harmful to fish as it is to dissolved organics! I am not a big beliver in the use of carbon for standard filtration. With ozone, it is a must! The water goes back in to the tank and the process continues.

This filtration system will allow me to change water every 7 to 10 days without ill effects. Yes, there is a lot to it and it does require some occassional tweaking, but it helps me keep my water bill below $100 a month! LOL!

The attached pictures show the mess below this tank. I don't want to hear any complaints! :p This is actually clean and organized compared to most days! LOL! ;)

Best wishes!

[Chad Hughes]

And here is the rest.....

[MRQuad]

that is a killer setup.. goodluck chad!

[rickztahone]

i have a new level of respect for you Chad, that is a crazy setup. i wish i knew what half of what you posted meant, :o. your fish will do marvelously

[Scribbles]

WOW! That's an incredible set up! Did I also see an inline heater or was it all filtration etc.? Also, what size is the sump? Thanks for sharing.

Chris

[Chad Hughes]

that is a killer setup.. goodluck chad!

Thanks! And good luck to you as well!


i have a new level of respect for you Chad, that is a crazy setup. i wish i knew what half of what you posted meant, :o. your fish will do marvelously

Thanks man! That's kind of why we're here! To learn! LOL! Thanks for the kind words! I really appreciate it! Best wishes!


WOW! That's an incredible set up! Did I also see an inline heater or was it all filtration etc.? Also, what size is the sump? Thanks for sharing.


Chris


Thanks! The sump is a total of 13 gallons. 5 gallon bio ball chanmber and 8 gallon sump area. No inline heaters. I do have an inline desiccant dryer though. It's purpose is to provide dry air to the ozonizer.

[calihawker]

That's awesome Chad. Being an ex reefer I've always tried to fing ways to adapt reef technology to freshwater/planted tanks. You've done a great job here!:)

[jerbear]

WOW!!! I want to be just like you when I grow up Chad:D:D Great set up, I think:o:o So much to learn..

[Mr Wild]

Chad

You have come such a long way since I taught you all I knew re TDS! LOLOL

Now if I could just understand everything you said I know I would be very very impressed...for now I am just sooooooooooo :confused:

:vanish:

[Chad Hughes]

That's awesome Chad. Being an ex reefer I've always tried to fing ways to adapt reef technology to freshwater/planted tanks. You've done a great job here!:)

Thanks Steve! I really appreciate that. Have a great holiday weekend!

Best wishes!


WOW!!! I want to be just like you when I grow up Chad:D:D Great set up, I think:o:o So much to learn..

LOL! Thanks Jer!


Chad

You have come such a long way since I taught you all I knew re TDS! LOLOL

Now if I could just understand everything you said I know I would be very very impressed...for now I am just sooooooooooo :confused:

:vanish:

Hey Kath!

I have been so fortunate to have you as a teacher! :p

I know it sounds confusing. It's like smoke and mirrors! LOL! I'll have to draw it up in a diagram.

Have a great weekend! Best wishes!

[seanyuki]

Wow Chad that's is killer filtration set up and must learn from you how to set up my very first wet/dry system....thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.:)


Cheers
Francis:)

[Chad Hughes]

Wow Chad that's is killer filtration set up and must learn from you how to set up my very first wet/dry system....thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.:)


Cheers
Francis:)

Thank you Francis! Let me know when you're ready and I'll do what I can to help you out! Have a great weekend!

Best wishes!

[Scribbles]

In another thread you said that water use was an issue in San Diego, how often are you planning wc with this filtration?

Chris

[Mr Wild]

Hey Kath!

I have been so fortunate to have you as a teacher! :p

I know it sounds confusing. It's like smoke and mirrors! LOL! I'll have to draw it up in a diagram.

Have a great weekend! Best wishes!


Chad
You are a love, but I don't think I diagram would help me!!!! LOL I am flat out working out what power point I have everything plugged into! :D Wish you the very best and I hope all those gizmos help you win the contest!

[Chad Hughes]

In another thread you said that water use was an issue in San Diego, how often are you planning wc with this filtration?

Chris

Chris,

50 gallons weekly is all this tank will get.

Best wishes!



Chad
You are a love, but I don't think I diagram would help me!!!! LOL I am flat out working out what power point I have everything plugged into! :D Wish you the very best and I hope all those gizmos help you win the contest!

LMAO! Got it! Thanks for the well wishes. I'll keep you posted as things go on! Have a great weekend!

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Amazing filteration set-up Chad, I understood what you on about my friend

I'm doing a plant tank soon with similar design filteration which I can't wait for.

All the best!
Ahmed ;)

[Chad Hughes]

Amazing filteration set-up Chad, I understood what you on about my friend

I'm doing a plant tank soon with similar design filteration which I can't wait for.

All the best!
Ahmed ;)

Thank you Ahmed! I've kept planted tanks for many years. Obviously the asthetics are amazing, but what it does for water quality is amazing as well. I look forward to seeing your new planted tank! Keep us posted!

Best wishes!

[KDodds]

Boy, I think that's the first time I've seen/heard of a hobbyist using ozone in FW, kudos to getting it working. I'm wondering why, though, the carbon is post CO2 and not post skimmer. I suppose it probably doesn't make much of a difference being that the wet/dry is functioning as a wet/dry and not a refugium. With this type of set-up, plus it being a planted tank, I'd say your WC schedule is more than generous. Reefers with this type of set-up, where accumulated pollutants are FAR more deleterious than in a planted discus tank, even SPS keepers, can get away with changes of 10% monthly or even less, and that's long term.

[Chad Hughes]

Boy, I think that's the first time I've seen/heard of a hobbyist using ozone in FW, kudos to getting it working. I'm wondering why, though, the carbon is post CO2 and not post skimmer. I suppose it probably doesn't make much of a difference being that the wet/dry is functioning as a wet/dry and not a refugium. With this type of set-up, plus it being a planted tank, I'd say your WC schedule is more than generous. Reefers with this type of set-up, where accumulated pollutants are FAR more deleterious than in a planted discus tank, even SPS keepers, can get away with changes of 10% monthly or even less, and that's long term.

KDodds,

Thank you for the Kudos! There is very little written about the use of ozone in the freshwater tank. I feel that most don't even have a second thought about using it since it's so easy to change freshwater. Salt water is a whole different story.

To clear up any confusion, the carbon is the last stage of the filter. Basically it goes like this....

The water is delivered to the sump where the skimmer picks up the water and cotacts it with ozone. That water goes back in to the sump where the return pump picks it up. I've drilled a hole in the intake tube of the return pump to fit the CO2 tube. The CO2 is drawn in to the pump when it's dispensed. On it's way back to the tank, the water passes through the carbon reactor. The carbon reactor holds about 1lb of carbon.

I'm sort of using this contest as a platform to exploit these methods of filtration and plant keeping to promote water savings and let everyone know that there's more than one way to raise discus. It will be exciting to see how the different methods prove effective.

Best wishes!

[calihawker]

I'm sort of using this contest as a platform to exploit these methods of filtration and plant keeping to promote water savings and let everyone know that there's more than one way to raise discus. It will be exciting to see how the different methods prove effective.


Very cool Chad. I'm watching closely and may employ these techniques on my display tank.:thumbsup: I still have my sump, protein skimmer and ozone generator.

My only concern, with all the agitation, is the amount of C02 being gassed off in the process. I already go through a substantial amount.

[Chad Hughes]

Very cool Chad. I'm watching closely and may employ these techniques on my display tank.:thumbsup: I still have my sump, protein skimmer and ozone generator.

My only concern, with all the agitation, is the amount of C02 being gassed off in the process. I already go through a substantial amount.

Steve,

I go through about 10lbs of CO2 every 4 to 6 months. It costs me about $40 a year to keep the CO2 flowing. I had a concern about it early on too, but over the years it really hasn't been too much of a problem.

Take care!

[rbarn]

First, the water enters a protein skimmer. Now, protein skimmers don't really do much for a freshwater tank, but the manner it which it whips water around makes it a great ozone reactor plus it has a built in venturi. The water enters the protein skimmer and is injected with ozone. The ozone increases the ORP (oxidation-reduction potential) of the water and increases it's ability to break down dissolved organics.


Before the water makes it back to the tank, it passes through a carbon reactor. Since I am using ozone, it's important to pass the ozone treated water through carbon before sending it back to the tank. Ozone can be as harmful to fish as it is to dissolved organics! I am not a big beliver in the use of carbon for standard filtration. With ozone, it is a must! The water goes back in to the tank and the process continues.



With Ozone reactor you could probably go a month or more without water changes.
The ozone destroys all organic compounds it touches


Excellent artcl on Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

[blue acara]

Great to see people raising the discus in different ways. It will be interesting to see your results compared to the big daily water change discus. I like your setup and use of ozone, best of luck with it.

[Chad Hughes]

With Ozone reactor you could probably go a month or more without water changes.
The ozone destroys all organic compounds it touches


Excellent artcl on Ozone
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-03/rhf/index.php
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-04/rhf/index.php

This is true. In fact, I read the articles that you linked before attempting to use ozone. It's working well so far! I still do the once a week change though.

Best wishes!


Great to see people raising the discus in different ways. It will be interesting to see your results compared to the big daily water change discus. I like your setup and use of ozone, best of luck with it.

Thank you very much! I'm excited to see the results myself. So far so good!

Best wishes!

[Mr Wild]

Well I reas the articles too as I have never been a reefer they were a bit over my head I am afraid, but I continue to learn! LOL

[Chad Hughes]

;)

That's what it's all about Kath! I wasn't born smart (I guess that's an opinion) LOL! I had to learn.

Best wishes

[Marywouters]

Chad

I was wondering if the use of ozone can be compared to the use of UV-filtration. UV kills all the bacteria in the water and you don't have to pass through carbon after the UV-filtration. Am I wrong in this?
Also I would like to know what you mean with an overflow to your sump. Do you have a picture of this? I have a big tank that I would like to put on a sump, but there are no holes in the bottom of this tank and it is already filled with plants and discus, so I can't start drilling.

Mary

[shawnhu]

Chad is probably all tucked in bed, so I'll see if I can help answer.

The Ozone reactor is for breaking organics down, mainly TDS. Bacteria is killed via the UV steralizer, two seperate things. I don't beleive O3 can kill bacteria(just guessing here).

The overflow can be achieved in two ways(at least). One is to drill to allow pumped water to flow down into the sump, and the other is to have a box, hanging off the tank drilled, and have that flow down into the sump. You would need an additional "U" flipped upside down in order to achieve that, and would require "priming" each time your water level falls below the tube.

Hope this helps.

[shawnhu]

Chad,

My city water's report for 2008 is out, and it's even lower than the year before. Now my GH is 19ppm and TDS is at 48. KH is something like 12ppm.

http://nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate07.pdf

How's that for managing water quality?!

[Chad Hughes]

Chad

I was wondering if the use of ozone can be compared to the use of UV-filtration. UV kills all the bacteria in the water and you don't have to pass through carbon after the UV-filtration. Am I wrong in this?
Also I would like to know what you mean with an overflow to your sump. Do you have a picture of this? I have a big tank that I would like to put on a sump, but there are no holes in the bottom of this tank and it is already filled with plants and discus, so I can't start drilling.

Mary

Hello Mary!

UV and ozone work in similar manners however ozone works towards breaking down organics in the water. Many organics in the aquarium are not readily metabolized by bacteria. Ozone has the ability to make many organic materials more readily absorbed and metabolized by bacteria. Ozone triggers a bacterial attack that can reduce the load of circulating organic materials. This reduction in organic materials also applies to circulating toxins released by the aquarium inhabitants.

Ozone can kill many pathogens. Viruses are more susceptible than bacteria to ozone, and they may be effectively inactivated by typical use. UV does a better job with bacteria. Ozone produces a variety of highly oxidized halogens such as BrOH and BrO3-. If the ozone produced oxidants are not largely removed with activated carbon, they may enter the aquarium and be hazards to the most sensitive organisms in the aquarium. This is why I have a large GAC reactor in line with the return hose.

Ozone alters the aquarium's redox balance, raising the ORP. Ozone also oxidizes ammonia to nitrate.

Post #2, picture #4 shows my overflow box. The overflow box allows you to provide a means of delivering water from the tank to the sump without drilling the tank. It works great for display tans, but I would plumb racks of tanks. Basically the system works like this....

There are two acrylic boxes. One on the inside of the tank and one outside. They are joined by a "U" tube that stradles the back of the tank between the two boxes. The box in the tank has notches cut out about every half inch to allow water to trickle in to the box. The box in the back is longer than the box in the front and is fitted with a 1" diameter piece of PVC that connects the hose to the sump. This piece of pipe stands about 3" tall inside the back box and has a prefilter sponge over it. Once the back box is filled with water up to the top of the stand pipe and the fron box is filled with water up to the notches, you can start the "U" tube siphon.

With each end of the "U" tube submersed in the water that you just added to the boxes, starting the "U" tube siphon is as simple as inserting a piece of air line tubing in to the (now upside down) "U" and forcing it all the way to the top of the upside down "U". All you have to do is suck air through the airline. This will draw out the air that is captured in the tube and you'll see the "U" tube fill with the water from the boxes. Once you begin to pull water through the air line, quickly cap the air line and remove it from the tube. You now have a permanent siphon that will not break unless you pull the entire "U" tube out of the two boxes, breaking the siphon.

The system basically always tries to keep equilibrium between the two boxes. As the tank fills with water pumped in to the tank from the sump, the fron box fills. As the front box fills with water, the "U" tube draws the water from the front box to the back box and the water overflows in to the stand pipe in the back box, returning to the sump. The return pump in the sump keeps the system turning over.

These boxes have ratings. Mine is rated for about 75 gallons and has a single "U" tube other are rated much higher and have 2 "U" tubes for great turnover (bigger sump and pump).

It's pretty slick! Did I confuse you? LOL!

Best wishes!

[Chad Hughes]

Chad is probably all tucked in bed, so I'll see if I can help answer.

The Ozone reactor is for breaking organics down, mainly TDS. Bacteria is killed via the UV steralizer, two seperate things. I don't beleive O3 can kill bacteria(just guessing here).

The overflow can be achieved in two ways(at least). One is to drill to allow pumped water to flow down into the sump, and the other is to have a box, hanging off the tank drilled, and have that flow down into the sump. You would need an additional "U" flipped upside down in order to achieve that, and would require "priming" each time your water level falls below the tube.

Hope this helps.

Good call Shawn! Yes, I was definately asleep. LOL! What were you doing up? LOL!

Best wishes!

[Chad Hughes]

Chad,

My city water's report for 2008 is out, and it's even lower than the year before. Now my GH is 19ppm and TDS is at 48. KH is something like 12ppm.

http://nyc.gov/html/dep/pdf/wsstate07.pdf

How's that for managing water quality?!

You need to start breeding discus! LOL! You definately have the water! How often does that report come out? The ranges are very curious. I'm going to assume that they sample water throughout the year and then compile the data. Looks like you have a period of snow melt (low everything) then you have a period of ground water utilization (everything is elevated). Regardless, it seems that everything stays pretty good for breeding!

Best wishes!

[shawnhu]

You need to start breeding discus! LOL! You definately have the water! How often does that report come out? The ranges are very curious. I'm going to assume that they sample water throughout the year and then compile the data. Looks like you have a period of snow melt (low everything) then you have a period of ground water utilization (everything is elevated). Regardless, it seems that everything stays pretty good for breeding!

Best wishes!

You hit it on the nail Chad. Water that we utilize is routed from hundreds of miles. They come from the northern part of NY, and there is a considerable amount of snow. During the summer, I would assume that water utilization is at it's worse, as most fire hydrants would be open and depleting this water source. NYC is a very non-efficient city. All that Discus-perfect water, going to waste down the drain(literally).

Shawn

P.S. I think two of the 9 I have in my 46G is starting to show signs of pairing off. Not that I know what those signs are.. but they attack everyone else, but each other. I'm sure that's a good sign!

[Chad Hughes]

I think two of the 9 I have in my 46G is starting to show signs of pairing off. Not that I know what those signs are.. but they attack everyone else, but each other. I'm sure that's a good sign!

It starts with two.... ;)

Let the shimmy begin!

[Marywouters]

Chad

Thank you very much for the explanation. You must think I am stupid, but here in Belgium you can't find anyone to tell you about the best way of growing and breeding discus. You just get answers like: "O it's simple, just add soft water and the fish will do the rest themselves". So this is a great place for me to learn things. When I started with fishkeeping you only had a small box in the corner of you tank, filled with cotton wool. That was back in the dark ages. Hopefully this way my couples will start breeding in the near future and I will be able to raise the fry.

Mary

[Chad Hughes]

Mary,

I am not a big fan of imposing judgement on someone based on a question. When in doubt, ask. That's what I do. I'd rather be sure than make a mistake. I thought your question was very valid!

Best wishes!

[calihawker]

Chad

Thank you very much for the explanation. You must think I am stupid, but here in Belgium you can't find anyone to tell you about the best way of growing and breeding discus. You just get answers like: "O it's simple, just add soft water and the fish will do the rest themselves". So this is a great place for me to learn things. When I started with fishkeeping you only had a small box in the corner of you tank, filled with cotton wool. That was back in the dark ages. Hopefully this way my couples will start breeding in the near future and I will be able to raise the fry.

Mary


Not just in Belgium Mary.:(

[Arkangel77]

Good stuff here! I got a few Questions.

What Kinda skimmer do you use for the reactor and what pump do you use for the skimmer? I guess it seems you don't use a ozone controller - do you fear an overdose of ozone? I looked into this a while back but never found anyone with actual experence to pull from so a tabled it for a while. I am very motivated to try something like this. My Primary and only filter is a LARGE wet/dry filter for my 180 with just a few plaints. I use to run REEF systems years back and I loved what Ozone did for those systems. Thanks in advance.

Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

Arkangel,

I picked up a cheap, no-name skimmer off Ebay for about $40. I sjust wanted something to mix the O3 with the water. I do not use a controller. Early on in my setup I took ORP readings to see where I would be with timed O3 injection. I established a good plant with those readings and have stuck with it. I haven't had any issues. Maybe one day I'll take the plunge and go controlled.

This tank is extremely stable and the discus are doing very well and showing excellent growth. I am very happy with the results. HTH!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

Well let me ask you this. What Ozone generator are you using and what size tank is this set up on? I may start to collect parts very soon.

Thanks, Arkangel77:angel:

[Chad Hughes]

Well let me ask you this. What Ozone generator are you using and what size tank is this set up on? I may start to collect parts very soon.

Thanks, Arkangel77:angel:

I use a Supreme Aqua (OZ-150) by Aquatek of California. I have it set up on a 110 tall tank. Nearly all of the supplies for this setup can be found on Ebay for a fraction of retial cost. You'll just have to hunt!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

I am always on Ebay so that is not an issue for me. That's one of the first places I go to look for stuff. I was just wondering about the size of the generator vs the size of the tank.

Thanks, Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

I use a 150 mg/hr unit and I have it set to 75 mg/hr. It's completely adjustable. It's really not so much the size of the tank that has to be taken in to consideration. You have to identify bioload as well. Obviously the higher the population in the tank, the higher the DOCs. The manufacturer may have suggestions for the use of the particular unit as well. HTH!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

Thanks for the Info - Its great to have your expereance as a resorce.

Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

You bet! Let me know if you have any questions along the way. It's not too difficult to get started.

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

I was wondering how often do you change the carbon out? Was that posted or did I miss that? Thanks, Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

I was wondering how often do you change the carbon out? Was that posted or did I miss that? Thanks, Arkangel77

I just changed the first batch out at the 7 week mark. I am kind of regretting that. I probably should have waited to the 60 day mark. It's not that it's a bad thing, but GAC is not exactly cheap. My reactor is pretty big and holds a lot of carbon. I guess it would all depend on the size of the reactor and quantity of carbon. Mine holds about 1 liter.

[Arkangel77]

I understand - I need to figure out if I want to put just the outlet from the Skimmer threw Carbon or do I put the feeds from the pumps to the tanks threw a reactor like you did? Different ways to accomplish the same thing.

Thanks, Arkangel77:angel:

[Chad Hughes]

Very true!

[Condor]

Chad, what do you use as a carbon reactor and how is it hooked up. Also, I saw it mentioned that the ozone takes care of organics, but not so much in the way of bacteria. Do you think that adding UV would be helpful or unnecessary? Are there any things that you have had to change along the way?

Great thread by the way, some great ideas. Very interesting read.

Adrian

[Chad Hughes]

Chad, what do you use as a carbon reactor and how is it hooked up. Also, I saw it mentioned that the ozone takes care of organics, but not so much in the way of bacteria. Do you think that adding UV would be helpful or unnecessary? Are there any things that you have had to change along the way?

Great thread by the way, some great ideas. Very interesting read.

Adrian

Adrian,

I use a generic media reactor. You can find these on Ebay for pretty cheap. Here's a link to one similar to mine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Phosphate-Nitrate-Carbon-Hang-On-Media-Reactor-3_W0QQitemZ290287472313QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item43967b4eb9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Basically the reactor is plumbed in line with the sump return line. The return pump pumps water out of the sump, through the carbon reactor, back to the tank.

Ozone, IMO, works better on bacteria than UV. Ozone destroys bateria cells through cell lysing. Basically ozone attacks the bacteria and destroys it. Ozone is at least 10 times stronger than chlorine. I have use UV in the past and can't say that's it's really worth the money.

There have been no changes to the setup since it was started just a week prior to the contest fish arriving. I did tinker with the O3 levels a bit to see how much of an impact it would have on TDS. There was a point that I saw a drop in the TDS. This was NOT my goal. The goal is to maintain TDS as close to if not equal to the original TDS.

Thanks for reading the thread! Excellent water quality through filtration can be achieved and is much easier (less work) then changing tons of water. In 11 weeks of this contest I have changed water in this tank 11 times. The total amount of water changed is probably less than 700 gallons. My growth compared to others at this point is the same. We will not know until the end of this contest if, in fact, this method of grow out (size factor) is better or worse than that of frequent massive water changes.

Thanks again for reading!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

I am finnaly getting around to this build!

These are some parts I am considering.
What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110357547502&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220450011257&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270443234170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

maybe - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230354890699&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Does it look like I am forgetting anything?
Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

I am finnaly getting around to this build!

These are some parts I am considering.
What do you think?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110357547502&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220450011257&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270443234170&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

maybe - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=230354890699&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT

Does it look like I am forgetting anything?
Arkangel77

Not bad! I see your taking it up a notch with the ORP probe/controller. Very nice! I am assuming that you already have a sump? If you do, the you are all set! Nice job!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

Yep my 180 has a BIG wet dry with a sump and so forth. It’s a drilled tank as I always intended to use the Wet Dry. I am a nervous about the Ozone LVL's so the Probe/controller will put me at ease when it comes to that part.

I am gona start accumulating parts soon and get this thing on line.

ALL I use is the wet/dry right now with water changes twice a week. I am also thinking about adding a canister? I do plan to eliminate the UV when I get all this Online.

Thanks, Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

Yep my 180 has a BIG wet dry with a sump and so forth. It’s a drilled tank as I always intended to use the Wet Dry. I am a nervous about the Ozone LVL's so the Probe/controller will put me at ease when it comes to that part.

I am gona start accumulating parts soon and get this thing on line.

ALL I use is the wet/dry right now with water changes twice a week. I am also thinking about adding a canister? I do plan to eliminate the UV when I get all this Online.

Thanks, Arkangel77

Sounds like a sweet plan! Take some pictures when you're all done! We can start a collection. LOL!

Best wishes!

[Condor]

Adrian,

I use a generic media reactor. You can find these on Ebay for pretty cheap. Here's a link to one similar to mine:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Phosphate-Nitrate-Carbon-Hang-On-Media-Reactor-3_W0QQitemZ290287472313QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_Defau ltDomain_0?hash=item43967b4eb9&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14

Basically the reactor is plumbed in line with the sump return line. The return pump pumps water out of the sump, through the carbon reactor, back to the tank.

Ozone, IMO, works better on bacteria than UV. Ozone destroys bateria cells through cell lysing. Basically ozone attacks the bacteria and destroys it. Ozone is at least 10 times stronger than chlorine. I have use UV in the past and can't say that's it's really worth the money.

There have been no changes to the setup since it was started just a week prior to the contest fish arriving. I did tinker with the O3 levels a bit to see how much of an impact it would have on TDS. There was a point that I saw a drop in the TDS. This was NOT my goal. The goal is to maintain TDS as close to if not equal to the original TDS.

Thanks for reading the thread! Excellent water quality through filtration can be achieved and is much easier (less work) then changing tons of water. In 11 weeks of this contest I have changed water in this tank 11 times. The total amount of water changed is probably less than 700 gallons. My growth compared to others at this point is the same. We will not know until the end of this contest if, in fact, this method of grow out (size factor) is better or worse than that of frequent massive water changes.

Thanks again for reading!

Best wishes!

Good stuff Chad, thanks for the info!

Adrian

[Chad Hughes]

You bet! ;)

[Arkangel77]

My only concern, with all the agitation, is the amount of C02 being gassed off in the process. I already go through a substantial amount.


Steve,
I go through about 10lbs of CO2 every 4 to 6 months. It costs me about $40 a year to keep the CO2 flowing. I had a concern about it early on too, but over the years it really hasn't been too much of a problem.
Take care!

Chad, I got a question - When your water flows into your Overflow - Do you have a standpipe or IS the chamber full of BioBalls? Just how much turbulance does your water see on its way down? I am also getting a CO2 system and I am wondeirng if I need to be concerned about off gassing? My Overflow is full of bio balls and my water gets churned up a good bit.

Thanks, Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

Chad, I got a question - When your water flows into your Overflow - Do you have a standpipe or IS the chamber full of BioBalls? Just how much turbulance does your water see on its way down? I am also getting a CO2 system and I am wondeirng if I need to be concerned about off gassing? My Overflow is full of bio balls and my water gets churned up a good bit.

Thanks, Arkangel77

My overflow is completely open. I like the idea of the bio balls though! I would say that the amount of degassing/water turbulence is probably goign to depen on how rapid your turnover is. If you are moving a lot of water wuickly through the overflow, the you create more turbulence and thus more gass off. I'm about in the middle. Not slow flow but not a gusher either. I have to refill my 5lb CO2 tank two or three times a year. Not too bad IMO.

Hope that helps!

[Arkangel77]

Yes - I liked the Idea of the Bio Balls also - Sorta another section of filter. My water flow is a lot like yours I think. Not Crazy but I flow a decent ammount. I may just table this one & re-visit if I need to once the CO2 system is in place. The reson I did not do a Standpipe in the first place is because my Overflow is TIGHT! I can not fit a standard style standpipe - I have thought up a way to make a slimer desighn but I am not sure if it would work or not till I try it? I Think it will as the desighn is simple once you understand whats going on.

Anyway - thanks, Arkangel77

[Lytehouse]

Arkangel77,

What about the standpipe is a proplem? If it is the crook at the top, you try this type. It is the quietest I have ever used.

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/

[Lytehouse]

Here is a simple standpipe that doesn't take up much room. It is also very, very quiet.

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/

[Lytehouse]

Here is a simple standpipe that doesn't take up as much room as a standard one. It is also one of the quietest I have ever used.

http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/

[Chad Hughes]

Yes - I liked the Idea of the Bio Balls also - Sorta another section of filter. My water flow is a lot like yours I think. Not Crazy but I flow a decent ammount. I may just table this one & re-visit if I need to once the CO2 system is in place. The reson I did not do a Standpipe in the first place is because my Overflow is TIGHT! I can not fit a standard style standpipe - I have thought up a way to make a slimer desighn but I am not sure if it would work or not till I try it? I Think it will as the desighn is simple once you understand whats going on.

Anyway - thanks, Arkangel77

Sound slike you have a really good handle on what you're doing! ;)

Share some pics when you're done. I'd love to check out your setup!

Have a great weekend!

[Lytehouse]

Yes - I liked the Idea of the Bio Balls also - Sorta another section of filter. My water flow is a lot like yours I think. Not Crazy but I flow a decent ammount. I may just table this one & re-visit if I need to once the CO2 system is in place. The reson I did not do a Standpipe in the first place is because my Overflow is TIGHT! I can not fit a standard style standpipe - I have thought up a way to make a slimer desighn but I am not sure if it would work or not till I try it? I Think it will as the desighn is simple once you understand whats going on.

Anyway - thanks, Arkangel77

If you do a search for 'Hofer Gurgle Buster' you will find a stand pipe that will fit in tight places, is very easy to construct and is very quiet.

Best of luck....

[Arkangel77]

If you do a search for 'Hofer Gurgle Buster' you will find a stand pipe that will fit in tight places, is very easy to construct and is very quiet.

Best of luck....

Thank you House

Very Nice
http://home.everestkc.net/jrobertson57268/HGB/HGB_construction.html

[Lytehouse]

Sorry,

I didn't have enough posts to post the link. :)

If it works for you it is very, very quiet. The airline at the top either needs to be very tight, or you need to use rubber bands around it so the water current doesn't suck it in.

[Arkangel77]

Well I just got the 1st Item for this Set up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250488305415&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

I guess I ned to start a new thread maybe - LOL

Ark:angel:

[Chad Hughes]

Well I just got the 1st Item for this Set up
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=250488305415&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123

I guess I ned to start a new thread maybe - LOL

Ark:angel:

You're on your way! ;)

Best wishes!

[Lytehouse]

Get a thread started and send us a link:)

[Lytehouse]

Chad,

I have just come out of saltwater corals and trying to relearn keeping Discus.

Reading this thread is a head warp. Your filtration is much like what we used in salt and nothing like I used to use when I kept Discus before. I may have missed it and asking things you have already answered, but have you been in salt water or borrowed from salt water?

Are you keeping any information on the success of your different equipment in keeping Discus? Since keeping saltwater critters made me familiar with larger pumps, skimmers, sumps, overflows, etc.... it would be very interesting to use some of this technology. I am just wondering how much it is enabling you to keep these beautiful fish.

Honestly before all I used on adults were Marineland biowheel filters and 90% water changes once or twice a week and I had no problems. But your information here is very interesting. I have enjoyed reading it very much.

[Chad Hughes]

Chad,

I have just come out of saltwater corals and trying to relearn keeping Discus.

Reading this thread is a head warp. Your filtration is much like what we used in salt and nothing like I used to use when I kept Discus before. I may have missed it and asking things you have already answered, but have you been in salt water or borrowed from salt water?

Are you keeping any information on the success of your different equipment in keeping Discus? Since keeping saltwater critters made me familiar with larger pumps, skimmers, sumps, overflows, etc.... it would be very interesting to use some of this technology. I am just wondering how much it is enabling you to keep these beautiful fish.

Honestly before all I used on adults were Marineland biowheel filters and 90% water changes once or twice a week and I had no problems. But your information here is very interesting. I have enjoyed reading it very much.

Lynn,

The only salt water tank that I ever kept was in college and I didn't use ANY of this equipment. LOL!

Most of the success of this system is being recorded in the contest fish discus threads. I just posted a 14 week measurement thread. Since the system and it's parameters haven't changed too much, I really haven't maintained any "system" progress reports. I am relying on the health and growth of the fish to refelct the effectiveness of the system. So far so good! ;)

I like this system becaus eit allows me to be less "hand sin the tank" and more sitting on my butt watching it. :D

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

I just ordered the 2nd component. I caught a sale so I decided to go with a name brand I recognized. ALSO dealing with a US company as appose to Shanghai! Once I get this all together I will post a Link and thread as I did with my Macron Filter - Here is what I just Ordered!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+20793+19649&pcatid=19649


Arkangel77

[Chad Hughes]

I just ordered the 2nd component. I caught a sale so I decided to go with a name brand I recognized. ALSO dealing with a US company as appose to Shanghai! Once I get this all together I will post a Link and thread as I did with my Macron Filter - Here is what I just Ordered!

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+20793+19649&pcatid=19649


Arkangel77

Sounds good!

The reason that I go with cheap chinese components is due to the fact that they are cheap. If you pay hundreds of dollars for a component that does the same thing as one that is less than $100, then you don't feel so bad when the CD chip expires. The life of the chip is also dependent on how much you run the unit. Typically these chips are only good for about 7000 hours in aquarium applications. There are some industrial strenght generators that are actually cheaper than the one that you referenced that run about 15000 hours. I am in the process of adapting the indusrial strength to my larger scale fish room (2000 gallon system), rather than to a single tank.

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

well if it had not bin on sale I would not have bought it. I was more concerned about the Controller / probe part of the unit than the Generator itself. Lets hope I made the right choice! LOL

[Chad Hughes]

I looked at that early on as well. Rather than pay for all the controller parts, I monitored the O3 for a while and then set the unit to keep the ORP just under where I wanted it. A cheap ORP meter can help you out there. Piece of mind is well worth the investment though if it make you comfortable with the system. Either way, I think you'll like the results!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

YUP - I hope so! Did ya see my Macron Filter DIY thread?

[Chad Hughes]

Yes, I saw that. Very well done. I like your method of overcoming all the little obstacle along the way. LOL! Sorry to hear you flooded the room. I hate it when that happens. LOL!

[Arkangel77]

Ya I going to Update that thread right now - Still having Hickups.:(

[Chad Hughes]

Ya I going to Update that thread right now - Still having Hickups.:(

I know how hickups can go! LOL! I've had my fair share of not so stellar outcomes. You'll get it right!

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

Its working but the 200M bag is not catching as much. Obviously right! Just wish I could find a middle ground ya know. I dont want to keep guessing and buying bags. LOL

Ark:angel:

[Chad Hughes]

Its working but the 200M bag is not catching as much. Obviously right! Just wish I could find a middle ground ya know. I dont want to keep guessing and buying bags. LOL

Ark:angel:

Ark,

The only way that I make smller micron filters work in high volume systems is to go long. I use 32" 100 micron filter bags in large sumps. the chamber for the micron filter has to be the size of the bag, so 32". This allows the bag to stretch out and fill with the indound polluted water. I noticed in your setup that the bag is a little cramped. Since you have space limitations, a larger micron is about the only way you'll get around the flow issues.

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

yep there is no way I could fit a 32" long filter in my set up

[Arkangel77]

Well My Ozone Generator/controler came in today! I just need some time to put this all together. That wont happen for a few weeks but when It does I will start a new thread.:D

One step at a time.

Arkangel77:angel:

[Darren's Discus]

Chad,
nice set up,here is a picture of my auto water changing and filtering system.


cheers

[Chad Hughes]

Well My Ozone Generator/controler came in today! I just need some time to put this all together. That wont happen for a few weeks but when It does I will start a new thread.:D

One step at a time.

Arkangel77:angel:

Sweet! I'll be eager to check it out!

I got 40 bulkheads, 40 sponge filters, 2 Sweetwater high efficiency pumps, 900 feet of airline, four 32" 100 micron filters and a 1" diamond bit in the mail today. :D $2000 later! UGH! Yes, there will be another thread.


Chad,
nice set up,here is a picture of my auto water changing and filtering system.


cheers

That looks super familiar! :p

I've checked out your system before in another post! How's it working out for you?

Best wishes!

[Arkangel77]

Man You crazzy bro:D

[Chad Hughes]

Man You crazzy bro:D

Yeah, I think I may have slipped over the edge. :o

[Darren's Discus]

That looks super familiar! :p

I've checked out your system before in another post! How's it working out for you?

Best wishes![/QUOTE]


Hi Chad,
works well changes water 3 x day automatically saves me so much time,wish i had done it years ago.


cheers

[Chad Hughes]

That looks super familiar! :p

I've checked out your system before in another post! How's it working out for you?

Best wishes!


Hi Chad,
works well changes water 3 x day automatically saves me so much time,wish i had done it years ago.


cheers[/QUOTE]

That is awesome! I wish I had that much water! ;)

Best wishes!

[willbldrco]

I'm curious what you KH is typically and if it stays fairly constant or fluctuates with your water changes.

[Chad Hughes]

I'm curious what you KH is typically and if it stays fairly constant or fluctuates with your water changes.

I have to admit that I do not check it. I check the KH from time to time at water changes just to ensure that there haven't been any major changes in the tap water and then adjust the Ph controller accordingly. I've never had a reason to check it after a week. I will say that the Ph does not swing within the 7 day span, which is all I really am concerned with anyway.

Hope that helps!

[dbfzurowski]

Hey,
is that a Milwaukee SMS122 controller?
are you using the milwaukee co2 regulator ma957
with that?
I'm looking for a good co2 setup and was thinking about the milwaukee products.
Any problems with them?

[Chad Hughes]

Hey,
is that a Milwaukee SMS122 controller?
are you using the milwaukee co2 regulator ma957
with that?
I'm looking for a good co2 setup and was thinking about the milwaukee products.
Any problems with them?

Yes, you are absolutely correct and I would highly recommend Milwaukee products. Haven't had any issues with them at all! I got mine of Ebay. The comination of the SMS 122, regulator and bubble counter for about $170.

Best wishes!