Help with Aging Water Setup

[poconogal]

I decided I'm going to start aging my water again. I did when I first moved to my current house since I'm on my own well. At the time, I actually added a bit of chlorine to my water barrel just in case. I then tried using my water straight from the tap and found that the Discus were all good with it, no problems whatsoever, and I do have very good water. Things have been fine for a few years.

Recently though, I've started getting lots and lots of bubbles, not during every WC, but here and there and it really makes the fish uncomfortable. Also, one of the Discus has begun breaking out in little white lumps on fins and sides after WCs, not just the very bubbly WCs, but after almost every WC.

What I'd like to do is set up the barrel in my basement. I'd also like to use a pump to drain/siphon the tank, then pump water up to the tank from the barrel in the basement. I figure a pump that'd give 30 ft. of head should be fine, and I'm looking at one with a float switch, but what would be the best way to set this up, to keep running up and down the stairs to a minimum?

Thanks!

[DonMD]

Connie,

For a long time I used to string out a hose to drain my tank from upstairs to the laundry sink in the basement, then string out another hose from my aging barrel pump back upstairs, along with an electrical extension cord, to pump the water back up again. I always used a different hose for draining and supplying water, so as to minimize contamination. That worked real well, it just required uncoiling and then recoiling the hoses every time I did a water change.

When I decided to upgrade to a larger tank, I decided to get a little more carried away, and plumbed a waste line, and a supply line along with electrical switches, so that I can now change water without ever having to go up and down the stairs. I guess it depends on how elaborate you want to get. Here's what I did:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=72105

Have fun!

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I decided I'm going to start aging my water again. I did when I first moved to my current house since I'm on my own well. At the time, I actually added a bit of chlorine to my water barrel just in case. I then tried using my water straight from the tap and found that the Discus were all good with it, no problems whatsoever, and I do have very good water. Things have been fine for a few years.

Recently though, I've started getting lots and lots of bubbles, not during every WC, but here and there and it really makes the fish uncomfortable. Also, one of the Discus has begun breaking out in little white lumps on fins and sides after WCs, not just the very bubbly WCs, but after almost every WC.

What I'd like to do is set up the barrel in my basement. I'd also like to use a pump to drain/siphon the tank, then pump water up to the tank from the barrel in the basement. I figure a pump that'd give 30 ft. of head should be fine, and I'm looking at one with a float switch, but what would be the best way to set this up, to keep running up and down the stairs to a minimum?

Thanks!

Those bubbles you are seeing is supersaturation of gases. Most likely nitrogen since you are on a well up North. As you have seen already, the fish dont like it too much and it carries the possibility to actually kill them if conditions are right. So I would highly recommend aging your water (or degass it at the very least).

What size tank are the fish in and how quickly do you want the tank to fill?? How many gallons of water do you use at most at any one time? To minimize running up and down the stairs you could have the pump plugged into a remote system where all you have to do is push a button on a remote to turn the pump on/off. Im pretty sure they have fairly cheap remote systems like that at Home Depot/Lowes.

As for aging the water....you can take a 5 gal bucket filled with a very open media (large bioballs or bio barrels) and fix it in place above a storage container and have the fill pump push the water up to the bucket and have it shoot through the bucket and drain back to the storage container using several larger holes on bottom of bucket. The sheering action of the water going through the open media will degass the water and will bring the gas balance back to a more "natural" state (off gas nitrogen, co2, etc and add in O2, etc). We do this on the farm, but on a much larger scale using degassing towers that are 6ft tall. Of course, aerating the water overnight works too (just takes longer to get desired effect).

-Ryan

[poconogal]

Connie,

For a long time I used to string out a hose to drain my tank from upstairs to the laundry sink in the basement, then string out another hose from my aging barrel pump back upstairs, along with an electrical extension cord, to pump the water back up again. I always used a different hose for draining and supplying water, so as to minimize contamination. That worked real well, it just required uncoiling and then recoiling the hoses every time I did a water change.

When I decided to upgrade to a larger tank, I decided to get a little more carried away, and plumbed a waste line, and a supply line along with electrical switches, so that I can now change water without ever having to go up and down the stairs. I guess it depends on how elaborate you want to get. Here's what I did:

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=72105

Have fun!
Hi Don, I remember seeing your thread and thought it was an excellent idea. One question though, when you are refilling your tank, what do you do about the temperature of the water entering the tank?

[poconogal]

....What size tank are the fish in and how quickly do you want the tank to fill?? How many gallons of water do you use at most at any one time? To minimize running up and down the stairs you could have the pump plugged into a remote system where all you have to do is push a button on a remote to turn the pump on/off. Im pretty sure they have fairly cheap remote systems like that at Home Depot/Lowes.

As for aging the water....you can take a 5 gal bucket filled with a very open media (large bioballs or bio barrels) and fix it in place above a storage container and have the fill pump push the water up to the bucket and have it shoot through the bucket and drain back to the storage container using several larger holes on bottom of bucket. The sheering action of the water going through the open media will degass the water and will bring the gas balance back to a more "natural" state (off gas nitrogen, co2, etc and add in O2, etc). We do this on the farm, but on a much larger scale using degassing towers that are 6ft tall. Of course, aerating the water overnight works too (just takes longer to get desired effect).

-Ryan
Hi Ryan, I don't know why this excess of gas has started up again after several years, but whatever the reason, (I'm thinking it has something to do with a rainy season that we don't normally have, I feel like we live in FL now, LOL!) I know its definitely not good for the fish, even if its only once here and there that its happening!

The tank is a 75 (but one day I want to move up to a 125). I'm unemployed right now so I can take my time with WCs, but once I manage to find a job, its back to having about 2 hours at home a night before bedtime, so I'll need to get a WC done as fast as possible.

For the past few years I've done two to three 50-60% WCs per week, (so maybe 35-40 gals. used per WC) as my PH does rise after 24 hrs. By keeping to 50-60% WCs, my tank PH remains stable and it used to be that by refilling the tank very slowly, I was able to keep it to no to almost no bubbles appearing. Now that's intermittently not working any more, so I figured that if I went back to aging with aeration, I'd also be able to do larger WCs and also eliminate the teeny bubble syndrome. When I was aging my water several years ago, I would set the barrel up in a close by bathroom the night before, but I don't want to have the barrel in there again, it was a PITA. With the barrel in the basement, I can always have heated, aged water ready go. I also figured that there'd be a lot less water waste not using the Python for siphoning.

You mentioned a remote - do they actually have pumps that come with a remote system, or is a remote system something that gets hooked up to the pump, a DIY?

[DonMD]

Hi Don, I remember seeing your thread and thought it was an excellent idea. One question though, when you are refilling your tank, what do you do about the temperature of the water entering the tank?

I have two heaters in my aging barrel, set to the same temp as the main aquarium. So, when doing a WC, first I take water out of the show tank, then I pump water from the aging barrel (it's already heated). While pumping the water up from the basement, the valve to fill the aging barrel is closed. Once I'm finished filling up the show tank, I turn off the switch for the pump that was pumping up the water, then turn on the fill valve to the aging barrel, and once the barrel is topped off, I turn the heaters back on. I put the switches up in the cabinet under the show tank, but for a long time I just did it manually in the basement.

Let us know what you end up doing! ;)-Don

[poconogal]

Hi Don, I'll be doing things manually, the way you did before your great setup. But I do want to look into the remote system that Ryan mentioned to minimize the stair climbing. The construction of the house makes it more feasible. Because of the floor joists and the way the framing sits on the concrete block, there's no way to get up from the basement and into any of the walls. We'd have to cut holes in our wood floor and I'd rather not do that.

[poconogal]

Thanks for the help, guys.

Ryan suggested that I check out the X-10 controller, so I contacted the people that make it. They told me exactly what I'd need to set up a remote on and off for the pump. It will run approximately $45, so not bad at all! Now I just need to buy a pump and some more hose and I'll be all set.

[tcyiu]

Thanks for the help, guys.

Ryan suggested that I check out the X-10 controller, so I contacted the people that make it. They told me exactly what I'd need to set up a remote on and off for the pump. It will run approximately $45, so not bad at all! Now I just need to buy a pump and some more hose and I'll be all set.

X-10 is really cool when it works. I have a set up in my house (but not for fish).

A couple of things to watch for:
- Noise in between the source and the destination. Sometimes, things like microwave ovens or large screen TVs throw off electrical noise on the circuit. This prevents the X-10 from signaling properly and it won't work. The symptoms may be intermittent. In my case, the large screen TV disabled one circuit while it is plugged in.
- In the US, many houses have 220V coming which is then split into two separate 110V circuits. If your switch is on one circuit and your device is on the other, X-10 will not work unless you buy a bridge and have that professionally installed. $$$$ The reason is that this requires mucking with the 220V main which is dangerous unless you know what you're doing.

Tim

[barrowkwan]

If X10 signal is too weak and you need a bridge, get one of this.

http://www.smarthome.com/4826B/SignaLinc-3-Pin-Plug-in-Coupler-Repeater/p.aspx

This works well for me

[poconogal]

X-10 is really cool when it works. I have a set up in my house (but not for fish).

A couple of things to watch for:
- Noise in between the source and the destination. Sometimes, things like microwave ovens or large screen TVs throw off electrical noise on the circuit. This prevents the X-10 from signaling properly and it won't work. The symptoms may be intermittent. In my case, the large screen TV disabled one circuit while it is plugged in.
- In the US, many houses have 220V coming which is then split into two separate 110V circuits. If your switch is on one circuit and your device is on the other, X-10 will not work unless you buy a bridge and have that professionally installed. $$$$ The reason is that this requires mucking with the 220V main which is dangerous unless you know what you're doing.

Tim

Thanks for the info. Good to know in case I have a problem.


If X10 signal is too weak and you need a bridge, get one of this.

http://www.smarthome.com/4826B/SignaLinc-3-Pin-Plug-in-Coupler-Repeater/p.aspx

This works well for me
Thank you, too!

[diamond_discus]

I have multiple tanks and I am not very good at plumbing .. so ..setting up all those PVC pipe and valves seems too hard for me ...

So I just ordered a couple pump from Jehmco (and asked John to add an adapter for python hose). I found that python hoses are a lot easier to curl then a rigid garden hose. I have one to drain and one to fill the water.

I also use a remote-controlled power outlet for the pumps :

http://cgi.ebay.com/3-Pack-Wireless-Remote-Controlled-Power-Outlet-Switch_W0QQitemZ370224575704QQcategoryZ101356QQcmd ZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3907.m263QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DSI C%26its%3DI%252BC%26itu%3DUCI%252BIA%252BUA%252BFI CS%252BUFI%26otn%3D15%26po%3DLVI%26ps%3D54

I use a 75 ft python hose to run from my garage to my living room.
I also has a 20 ft hose to do the WC for the tanks in the garage.

Works very well ... no drilling, no pvc pipes, no plumbing work ... all the hoses and pump are portable.

[poconogal]

Thanks! That's just what I'm looking for. Does it work well, 100% of the time? Does it have a low battery indicator on the remote?

I plan on using the Python hose with the gravel tube and shut off valve, so that I can shut the water flow off just in case of a remote failure for some reason.

[diamond_discus]

Thanks! That's just what I'm looking for. Does it work well, 100% of the time? Does it have a low battery indicator on the remote?

I plan on using the Python hose with the gravel tube and shut off valve, so that I can shut the water flow off just in case of a remote failure for some reason.

I have been using it for 1.5 years and the battery still works. When you press the button, you will see a red light. I guess if the battery is low, you won't see the red light.

Between my living room and my garage (50 to 75 feets away), there are a few dry wall in between and the remote work just fine. I did't bother to use the python shut off valve. When the water reaches the top, I would simply press the remote button again. You might have to do it several times depending of the levels of interference. But to be safe, if it doesn't turn off after a few press, I simply start walking back toward my garage and press the button again. Never once fail on me and never over spill ..

For the pump, I got the PAQO-2200 (581 gph) from Jehmco. John added a nice python adapter for me (a few extra dollars).
http://www.jehmco.com/html/water_pumps___powerheads.html

[poconogal]

Okay, great! That's what I'm going to buy. The water barrel and outlet will be almost under where I'll be standing when I do a WC, so I'll only have my wood floor in between and the outlet will be around 7 feet away, so it should work great.

Thanks for the links and thanks again everyone for your help.

[DiscusOnly]

Yup. The remote from Ebay will work great. I recently bought a 3 pack from the same seller on Ebay.

[poconogal]

Got those remote controlled outlets off the Ebay seller that were recommended. Wow, they do work great! I turned my toaster oven on from my bedroom, pointing the remote so the signal went thru my closet, thru a bathroom, thru our entry foyer, thru our coat closet, then our kitchen pantry, finally to the toaster oven. Worked like a charm, thanks for the recommendation!

I opted to get a 1900 gph pump off Ebay too - it has 20 feet of head, which should work out fine. Now I just need some more Python hose or drinking water hose and a larger Rubbermaid than I have now. Almost there!

[diamond_discus]

Got those remote controlled outlets off the Ebay seller that were recommended. Wow, they do work great! I turned my toaster oven on from my bedroom, pointing the remote so the signal went thru my closet, thru a bathroom, thru our entry foyer, thru our coat closet, then our kitchen pantry, finally to the toaster oven. Worked like a charm, thanks for the recommendation!

I opted to get a 1900 gph pump off Ebay too - it has 20 feet of head, which should work out fine. Now I just need some more Python hose or drinking water hose and a larger Rubbermaid than I have now. Almost there!

Great Connie. You can simply get the python extension hose. I like the vinyl tube because it's easy to curl it up ... and it's not cheap by just buying vinyl tube from home depot or other places .. So I decided to just by a python extension (if you need a short one) or buy a long phython hose (but wait for a sale from some place like drfostersmith).

This makes the refilling process so much easier.