starting a planted tank

[rickztahone]

i tried to look up "silent cycle" and had no hits. i'm not really trying to cycle with plants per-se but i would like to know the technical aspect of it. my goal currently is to set up my 55 with a sand bottom and have a plants only tank. my questions are:
1. do i need a filter?
2. do i need to fert if i plan on doing a low-tech planted tank?
3. will i need to put any type of air in the tank via sponge filter/diffuser?
4. what is an ideal temp?
5. do you do WC's on a set-up planted tank?

so i plan on maturing these plants in the 55 to eventually transfer them over to my 125 when my discus are adults. btw i do not know almost any plant names (complete plant noob) but i would like some plants that require low light. My 55 only has 2 bulbs and they are both 15w, so 30w total for 55g which i know is not a lot at all but that's what i have. i only plan on putting a small colony of RCS in there to clean up a bit.

again, i only want plants that require low light but have some of the same characteristics as the vals or something similar, i really like that look. if there are more out there that do well in low light please name them as well. do you foresee any possible problems? i do plan on maybe adding a small school of rummy nose tetra and a couple of rams but that's it. that is why i'm inquiring about the silent cycle as well. at that time i would include the HOB filter. please guide me in the right direction and forgive me for the noob questions. any help is appreciated.

btw, in my 125 i will have 4x65w 6700k's running so i will have roughly 2w/g.

[snoopy65]

i tried to look up "silent cycle" and had no hits. i'm not really trying to cycle with plants per-se but i would like to know the technical aspect of it. my goal currently is to set up my 55 with a sand bottom and have a plants only tank. my questions are:
1. do i need a filter?If you plan on adding the shrimp, yes you need a filter and you need to cycle it prior to adding the shrimp or they will die.
2. do i need to fert if i plan on doing a low-tech planted tank?I run all of my planted tanks at 1-2 wpg and use no ferts. So no you do not if you stay low wpg.
3. will i need to put any type of air in the tank via sponge filter/diffuser?If you go strictly plants and do not have a filter on the tank, then yes for gas exchange. Other wise the filter will provide that.
4. what is an ideal temp?My planted tanks range from 78 - 86 degrees farenheit.
5. do you do WC's on a set-up planted tank?Yes, the plants help with nitrates, but water changes still need to be done.

so i plan on maturing these plants in the 55 to eventually transfer them over to my 125 when my discus are adults. btw i do not know almost any plant names (complete plant noob) but i would like some plants that require low light. My 55 only has 2 bulbs and they are both 15w, so 30w total for 55g which i know is not a lot at all but that's what i have. i only plan on putting a small colony of RCS in there to clean up a bit.

again, i only want plants that require low light but have some of the same characteristics as the vals or something similar, i really like that look. if there are more out there that do well in low light please name them as well. do you foresee any possible problems? i do plan on maybe adding a small school of rummy nose tetra and a couple of rams but that's it. that is why i'm inquiring about the silent cycle as well. at that time i would include the HOB filter. please guide me in the right direction and forgive me for the noob questions. any help is appreciated.

btw, in my 125 i will have 4x65w 6700k's running so i will have roughly 2w/g.Once the plants are transferred over, you may have to dose Flourish and Flourish Excel to help with algae as you will be borderline medium light. It just depends on if your plants out compete the algae for nutrients.

Plants that I have that I know do well in the lighting you have. They just grow slower than in higher light set ups.

Anubias - all varieties
Java Fern
Java Moss
Crypt Wendti - all varieties
Guppy Grass
Rotala Rotundifolia
Giant Vals
Spiral Vals
Hygro
Dwarf Water lily
Amazon Sword
Pennywort
Wisteria
Marimo Balls

[zn394]

Not going to add to the advice so far other than to say that all of the cryptocorynes would be good for your setup. I recently became a convert because of their variety and ease of maintenance.

The wendtiis mentioned are excellent, but for background grassy type plants consider c. retrospiralis, c. spiralis, and c. balansae. All have long slender leaves and can grow to 20" or so.

I have these in my 150 (29" tall) and the balansae are within 4" of the water line. Don't skimp on the substrate though - a plant substrate like Fluorite or Eco-Complete would be great. I have Fluorite in my 150 and layered potting soil, Eco-Complete, and sand in my 130 (setup for a little over 2 weeks now). Both are excellent, but I will say that I moved a sword in the 130 yesterday and its roots were 3 times longer than when I put it in!

Both tanks do not use CO2 or ferts and have 192w of cf @ 6700K on the 150 and 6500K on the 130.

[mehran]

Planting in a tank W/O filter and air is not possible unless you do daily water change. You have a stagnant water which start to smell very fast and you will have algea issue too. Plants also need water circulation in order to have a good growth. Some of the plants that mentioned in previous post are good for amount of light that you have but my question is why you want a full grown plant for your display tank?
Usually plants especially the stem one are best when they are young so you can start with small plants and enjoy them grow in your tank. With the type of the plants that mentioned before you can start W/O fert. if you have a nutrient rich substrate but it is a good idea to have some Excell if you have algea problem in future.
Mehran

[rickztahone]

the only thing about the rich soil is that i will not have it in my 125 when they get transferred. i want to have just straight sand, if i use excel then eventually i know my sand will be mixed in with the soil which is not the look i am going for. as far as why i want adult plants? i had read that it's best to start an established planted tank before introducing discus. for this reason i wanted to mature the plants in the 55 and only transfer over when they are adult plants down the line. i'm talking about more than 3-4 months here. so they will not be disturbed by the discus when growing and will have a tank to themselves...not a good idea :confused:

[GrillMaster]

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=55440

:D

[bs6749]

it is a good idea to have some Excell if you have algea problem in future.
Mehran

Some of the plants that Ricardo wants to keep would not do well with Excel in the tank, namely the vals. It tends to "melt" the leaves on vals, anacharis, and others as well.

Ricardo,

The 4 x 65w fixture over your 125g tank would give you 260w, but it's actually more light than what you are thinking. The watts per gallon rule was based on NO (normal output) bulbs. Since that time more types of bulbs have become available such as the PC/CF (Power Compact/Compact Fluorescent), which your 4 x 65x fixture more than likely is. That type of bulb is ~1.35 times more efficient than regular NO bulbs. You need to multiply the 260w by that number and then divide by 125 to give you the NO equivalent of about 2.8 watts per gallon. If you don't have a fixture already and are planning on the 4 x 65w fixture I'd suggest that you consider a T5 fixture since they offer better light penetration and they are cheaper initially, have cheaper bulbs, and they stay cooler. I have a PC/CF fixture myself and realized that I should have purchased a T5 setup after doing some research.

The watts has very little to do with the amount of light being put out by a bulb. If you were comparing an old style NO bulb to another NO bulb then the higher wattage bulb should put out more light, but when comparing two different types of bulbs the watts are useless to determine how much light there will be. You should be more concerned with the temperature rating of the bulb, which should be between 5,000-10,000k for plants, as this is their optimal growth range in the spectrum. Also, lumens is the measure of light intensity and not watts, which is merely how much power is required by the fixture to run the lights.

[rickztahone]

Some of the plants that Ricardo wants to keep would not do well with Excel in the tank, namely the vals. It tends to "melt" the leaves on vals, anacharis, and others as well.

Ricardo,

The 4 x 65w fixture over your 125g tank would give you 260w, but it's actually more light than what you are thinking. The watts per gallon rule was based on NO (normal output) bulbs. Since that time more types of bulbs have become available such as the PC/CF (Power Compact/Compact Fluorescent), which your 4 x 65x fixture more than likely is. That type of bulb is ~1.35 times more efficient than regular NO bulbs. You need to multiply the 260w by that number and then divide by 125 to give you the NO equivalent of about 2.8 watts per gallon. If you don't have a fixture already and are planning on the 4 x 65w fixture I'd suggest that you consider a T5 fixture since they offer better light penetration and they are cheaper initially, have cheaper bulbs, and they stay cooler. I have a PC/CF fixture myself and realized that I should have purchased a T5 setup after doing some research.

The watts has very little to do with the amount of light being put out by a bulb. If you were comparing an old style NO bulb to another NO bulb then the higher wattage bulb should put out more light, but when comparing two different types of bulbs the watts are useless to determine how much light there will be. You should be more concerned with the temperature rating of the bulb, which should be between 5,000-10,000k for plants, as this is their optimal growth range in the spectrum. Also, lumens is the measure of light intensity and not watts, which is merely how much power is required by the fixture to run the lights.

what would be a better choice than the Excel seeing as i wanted to do vals? would i still need to put root tabs in the soil or will rich soil alone support the plants?

[bs6749]

You would want something like Flourish Comprehensive for the plants. Eco-Complete would be a good choice and should be able to support vals alone without dosing. You don't need to put fertilizer tabs into the media but if you do you will see better growth rates provided that you have sufficient lighting for them. Go with a good planted media such as Eco-Complete or you will be dosing for nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium as well. Many people dose potassium nitrate to take care of both the nitrogen and potassium demand. With a planted substrate you still may need to dose for the 3 main nutrients that plants require.

[rickztahone]

i've decided to just do potted plants in my 125. i will be getting the soil and if ferts are needed then i will add them accordingly. thank you everyone for the help. now, does anyone have any plants to sell? anyone done any trimming lately? i'll gladly take the excess. i know Harriet did a trimming recently but 3 people pm'd her already