Mixing heckel with domestic

[Daniella]

So my heckel has been in quaranteen for 4 weeks and I put it with my other discus for a week now. I was told that they don't do well with the domestic discus and need to be with their own kind in a separated aquarium. Unfortunatly I only have one main tank and I could not buy another heckel because that's all they had at the fish store. I figured the heckel was better with other discus than alone.

So far so good. In the store aquarium that heckel looked almost sick...not moving and fins clamped in its corner, not mixing with others. I only bought it because I asked the guy to feed them and then that heckel went normal and eated. In my aquarium, he/she is looking much better, much more outgoing.

For the pecking order, the heckel has been there for a week and boss around 3 of my bigger discus, although there are no fighting. The only one that it's not bossing around is my female melon. Since no one is bossing that heckel around except my female, can I conclude that this heckel is a female? My female melon is tolerant of all the males around and she is displaying shaking at all of the males, except the heckel and the young discus. She has layed eggs this week as well (eggs were eated after 2 days) with 2 males side by side of her fetilizing the eggs, or trying to when they were not fighting together.

Is there a good way to see if that heckel is a female or a male? The fish now come to eat from my hands and snap at my fingers, so pretty much friendly and outgoing. Nobody bother him/her either. The female melon only chase it away a little when he/she come too close to her, otherwise she leave the heckel alone.

The heckel was only eating frozen blood worms when at the store, but I feed it live white worms and he/she started to eat beefheart mix yesterday for the first time, seing others eat it with gusto.

Overall I would say things are going well, but would really like to know the pointer to see if it is a female or a male? any hint on wild heckel sexing?

And can I assume that the heckel will do well with my domestic if there is no fighting and thing seem to be good between them?

My water is TDS 100 (with meter) and PH 6,9. I want to find a good compromise between soft water for the heckel and not too soft water for my growing up discus in there. Can a heckel adapt at such water and what are the first sign of a problem if it does not adapt?

thanks!

[discusjoe27]

I didn't have a problem with my wild caught tefe green discus with domestic,
just make sure to feed the heckel black worms, and give them a good mix of food(blood worms,black worms,beef heart,and flakes)

[Moon]

I hope you QT the Heckel before introducing it to the tank.
I have five Heckels in a 50g tank and these have been with me for 2 years. They are somewhat different compared to domestics and also other wilds. Becuse of this I keep them on their own. The other reason for this is to breed them one day (wishfull thinking).
Joe

[Daniella]

I do not have access to black worms here. No way to buy that.

All I have are white worms which is basicaly the only thing the heckel likes to eat. Yesterday it eated beefheart but today refused it and only took the white worms.

I keep offering beefheart though, just in case.

I will soon get some wingless flies and some scuds (little freshwater shrimp) so that will be 2 more type of live food.



I didn't have a problem with my wild caught tefe green discus with domestic,
just make sure to feed the heckel black worms, and give them a good mix of food(blood worms,black worms,beef heart,and flakes)

[Daniella]

4 weeks quaranteen like I said in my orginal post.

Treated it for worms and flukes with Wormer plus as a preventive but he/she was alway very healthy and eating well.

What differences are you refering to?



I hope you QT the Heckel before introducing it to the tank.
I have five Heckels in a 50g tank and these have been with me for 2 years. They are somewhat different compared to domestics and also other wilds. Becuse of this I keep them on their own. The other reason for this is to breed them one day (wishfull thinking).
Joe

[Daniella]

Well my heckel adapted so well to its new home that he/she is now the boss around. Even boss my larger tiger pigeon blood. No harsh confrontation but noboday stand their ground in front of that heckel except my female melon. Overall he/she was well accepted and now part of the gang.

Also the heckel does not bother my couple now attending eggs in the community tank. I would have thought that because it is wild it would have been inclined to try to eat the eggs but no such behavior. Maybe when/if the baby discus start to swim around, not sure.

[YSS]

Congrats! Glad it worked out well for you.

[SriAngel]

I hope you QT the Heckel before introducing it to the tank.
I have five Heckels in a 50g tank and these have been with me for 2 years. They are somewhat different compared to domestics and also other wilds. Becuse of this I keep them on their own. The other reason for this is to breed them one day (wishfull thinking).
Joe

Moon,

Im sorry i missed meeting you the last time I was in Ontario, would have loved to have seen that Heckel tank of yours.

[Moon]

Moon,

Im sorry i missed meeting you the last time I was in Ontario, would have loved to have seen that Heckel tank of yours.

Next time you are in Ontario give me a shout. We can meet.
Joe

[erikc]

There are several signs of Heckels not adapting Daniella :

a) Loss of appetite
b) Hiding in a corner (behind wood or in the upper potion of your tank)
c) Loss of weight even though they are eating.

You have done everything right so far (quarantine & treatment), so for the moment I would not worry.

Also I wouldn't worry about your Heckel going for another couples spawn, being a wildcaught it will know to keep away from a spawning pair. You could never imagine the havoc created by a spawning couple of wilds in a community tank !

[Daniella]

Ok none of this happen.

Now the heckel is the police between the spawning couple and the other discus. when one of the pair come to terrorise the other discus, the heckel gets in between them. They don't dare move on that heckel. good thing he/she is there to settle this! He/she eats very well and is outgoing. Now eating beefheart, hikary frozen bloodworms and live white worms as well as occasional moskitos larveas. coloring nicely too.

Discus never stop to amaze me with their intelligence and watching their behavior is fascinating.



There are several signs of Heckels not adapting Daniella :

a) Loss of appetite
b) Hiding in a corner (behind wood or in the upper potion of your tank)
c) Loss of weight even though they are eating.

You have done everything right so far (quarantine & treatment), so for the moment I would not worry.

Also I wouldn't worry about your Heckel going for another couples spawn, being a wildcaught it will know to keep away from a spawning pair. You could never imagine the havoc created by a spawning couple of wilds in a community tank !

[erikc]

Ok none of this happen.

Now the heckel is the police between the spawning couple and the other discus. when one of the pair come to terrorise the other discus, the heckel gets in between them. They don't dare move on that heckel. good thing he/she is there to settle this! He/she eats very well and is outgoing. Now eating beefheart, hikary frozen bloodworms and live white worms as well as occasional moskitos larveas. coloring nicely too.

Discus never stop to amaze me with their intelligence and watching their behavior is fascinating.

I had a Nhamunda female who would watch closely over a spawning couple of cobalts. Amazingly enough the cobalts would let her actually be present within the immediate vicinity. I find it interesting that you report this. However once the fry get to swimming stage things will get different. Do you have any pictures of your guardian Heckel ?

[Apistomaster]

I had to temporarily house a wild Blue pair along with 8 Peruvian Scalare(A type of wild Angelfish) including 3 mated pairs among the Scalare.

The pair of wild Blues would let the pairs of Angels spawn but would move right in and eat the Angelfish spawn as soon as they finished. Normally wild Angels will guard their eggs fiercely but they were more afraid of the discus pair than the discus were of the Angelfish.

The Discus have been moved to their own spawning tank but it was interesting to see how they ranked at the top of the pecking order

[Daniella]

no sorry I do not have pic of the heckel. I now moved the pair to their own tank as I was tired of the constant fighting and to see my fish confined in the very far end of the aquarium living in terror.

The heckel is pretty much the boss and I think it's a female because I saw it shake at my male eruption and also it only fight with the red melon female (my only adult female so far).

So fighting with the female and shaking to the male...it's a good sign it's a female :) All the fish are much more relaxed now that I moved the couple.

All the fry died one by one. I moved them with the parents and I found some at the bottom and some on the sponge filter. Nobody eated them, not even when they were dead. I am sure once they would have been free swimming all over the place, the heckel would have eated all it could. You should see that heckel with live moskito larveas :)

But it was interesting to see how that brave fish would stand the ground to the couple and preventing them to attack the others. I cannot say if it was with the intention of protecting the others (I doubt it) or just because it did not want to surrender to them (most likely). What ever the reason, it was good to settle fights.





I had a Nhamunda female who would watch closely over a spawning couple of cobalts. Amazingly enough the cobalts would let her actually be present within the immediate vicinity. I find it interesting that you report this. However once the fry get to swimming stage things will get different. Do you have any pictures of your guardian Heckel ?