URGENT!! Help needed.

[yashaswibs]

Hi, I am rather new to the discus keeping and had kept planted tank for a long time. this is a settled tank which was doing quite well.

Day before yesterday I did a 50% water change because I had few white spots on my discus. They were looking much better with an increased temp of 31 C. Now I repeated a 50% water change. The plants started to pearl like crazy and are still pearling, but the fishes shot up to the surface. I stopped the water change and am observing the fishes. Every fish except the discus seem to be doing OK.
The discus have turned dark and are close to the surface in the corner.

My set up is such
90 gallon tank with about 80 gallon water.
PH-6 -out of tap- well water, no chlorine or chloramine.
Discus - 4 4 inch blue snake skin (healthy before the event-eating frozen blood worms and mysis shrimp), 6 2 inch snake skin blue (2 of them had couple of white spots over last 72 hours.
Water temp- 31 C~88F
Ammonia-0
nitrite-0
nitrate-10

Substrate- 2inch of ecocomplete +aquariumplants.com substrate
Other fishes- 60 neon tetras, 12 Rasbora tetra, 4 cory cats
Plants-Lawn of dwarf echinodorus,
4 large crypts, 15 large echinodorus, 4 anubias, altherenses renekii.

What next?
I am willing to snap some pics if necessary or measure some other parameters.

Please excuse my spellings of the plant species.

[yashaswibs]

Equipment- Fluval fx5,
T5 Ho 4 tubes
DIY co2- which I disabled after all this happened.
Fert dosing is usually liquid ferts with substrate tabs but today I introduced Nutrafin Plant gro sticks- 6 of them.

Would be very willing to take them out if necessary.

[Chad Hughes]

Discus are hyper sensitive to subtle changes in water conditions. I understand that you are on a well and you feel that there is nothing in your water, but wells are the most vulnerable to contamination. Your water is not processed, tested and treated before it's used. There could be anything in your water. That being said, do you use a water conditioner such as Prime? If not, I would highly recommend it. Another sugestion that myself and a lot of others use is carbon filters for the tap water being used in the tank. Simply run your tap water through a carbon block filter and it removes a lot of the nasties that MAY be in the water. Never use "other fish" as a meter of water quality. It's the Discus that will tell you when there's something not right.

I hope that helps!

[yashaswibs]

I understand what you are saying and will incorporate carbon as addition to biofilteration.
In the meantime what next for these guys?

[bs6749]

My first thought when I saw planted tank and high temps was a lack of oxygen and too much CO2. I'd cut the CO2, drop the temp back down to 84, and add an airstone to see if that helps. You will most likely notice your fish breathing normally again soon if you do this and you will have to adjust the CO2 yourself. Do you have a bubble counter or a way to test how much CO2 you are putting into the tank? In the meantime you also might want to consider a large PWC in that tank.

[rickztahone]

My first thought when I saw planted tank and high temps was a lack of oxygen and too much CO2. I'd cut the CO2, drop the temp back down to 84, and add an airstone to see if that helps. You will most likely notice your fish breathing normally again soon if you do this and you will have to adjust the CO2 yourself. Do you have a bubble counter or a way to test how much CO2 you are putting into the tank? In the meantime you also might want to consider a large PWC in that tank.

definitely agree with Bryan here. the symptoms point to lack of oxygen. higher temps make it more difficult to breathe and more air needs to be pumped into the aquarium. lower the temp will help as well.

[yashaswibs]

There is only DIY co2 with yeast- so no real bubble counter. I also use Flourish Excel which helps with plant growth. It is unlikely to generate that much of CO2. But that being said the symptoms point to it with a burst of large amount of gas through the impeller of powerhead and plants pearling a lot.

In terms of PWC- what is PWC?
If I use a air stone, I will drive off the co2.
Of course I probably can use more Excel and not use any CO2.
Suggestions most welcome. Will drop temp slowly.
Thank you all for prompt and good replies.

[bs6749]

Even with DIY CO2 you could still have a valve in that airline tubing and could regulate the flow. Pearling of your plants indicates that they are growing and putting off oxygen, (as I'm sure you are aware). I missed that the first time and now I don't think it's a lack of dissolved oxygen, rather an overdose of Flourish Excel. I've used the stuff myself and know it's recommended to dose one capful per 50 gallons and then every day you can add a couple of mL to the tank. You aren't supposed to put in a capful every day. How much did you put in? That in combination with the other ferts you put into the tank may be causing your discus to hang at the surface. They certainly are "trying to get out" of something they don't like. I'd do a large PWC (Partial Water Change) as soon as you can. Make it 50-75% and then add fresh water back to the tank.

[yashaswibs]

OK
PWC ongoing.
Discus looks a little more settled down with aeration, temp coming down slowly, will go down to 29C by tomorrow am.
Flourish Excel is 5 ml for 100 gallon maintenance dose and 5ml for 20 gallon loading dose after large water change. I had not used it today and used only 5ml yesterday.
I do have a check valve for my DIY co2 to stop water from flowing back but I don't have any other valves.
Will keep you updated.

[yashaswibs]

OK
Discus looking much better. Accepting feeds, still hiding though.
I does appear to be increase in CO2 which did what it did. The well water must have had a lot of CO2 in it and almost no O2. Aereation for about 3-4 hours did the trick. The temp is down to 29C or 84F.
I am a bit hesitant to use Purigen/Carbon as it will remove all my liquid ferts and I will have to rely solely on substrate ferts. This business of managing both Discus and plant needs is tough.
Thank you guys for your help. If anything changes will let you know.

[rich815]

Purigen will not remove your ferts. I've used it for almost 2 years now in my planted tanks, no problems or issues with the plants. Continue to now that I am planted discus tank still no issues.

Even though it's well water I'd still consider a few capfuls of Prime at WC time. Cannot hurt and might neutralize something that's bothering them.

[Daniella]

Yes it is, and the younger the discus, the harder it is. I simply gave up and went bare bottom, throwing all my plants.

Best way to go with planted tank is to get adult or young adult discus of at least 5 inches, so they don't need that much food to fool the water. It is hard to grow small discus in a planted tank and give them all the food they need to properly grow without being stunted.



This business of managing both Discus and plant needs is tough.
Thank you guys for your help. If anything changes will let you know.

[Chad Hughes]

OK
Discus looking much better. Accepting feeds, still hiding though.
I does appear to be increase in CO2 which did what it did. The well water must have had a lot of CO2 in it and almost no O2. Aereation for about 3-4 hours did the trick. The temp is down to 29C or 84F.
I am a bit hesitant to use Purigen/Carbon as it will remove all my liquid ferts and I will have to rely solely on substrate ferts. This business of managing both Discus and plant needs is tough.
Thank you guys for your help. If anything changes will let you know.

Wells typically have a lot of CO2 in the water. There is no need to add "products" to a discus tank, other than a water conditioner such as Prime. The best thing you can do, especially being on a well, is to get a holding barrel set up. Fill your barrel with tap water that has been run through a carbon block filter. Allow the water to age for at least 24 hours and you can add that water to your tank without worries. It may sound like a lot of work and bother, but you have a huge amount of piece of mind when it comes to the health of your discus.

Glad to hear that things are looking up for you!

Best wishes!

[Patr1ck]

You can also get an ro unit and not have to worry about things that get into the well water.

hth
Pat