i think this is trouble now..

[MRQuad]

hi,

i sent this message to eddie.. i might as well just post it here so that alot of people can contribute..

just wanna let you know that my fish are not doing great now.. huhu.. yesterday almost all of them lying on the top sideways.. and i haven't seen them eat for almost two days now.. i moved them to a 40G tank without a paint.. right now, they are still pretty weak.. they don't move around..

i have noticed that whenever i do a water change, after a water change, the tank gets so cloudy.. i don't know what's wrong.. oh by the way, i didn't age the water, i used straight from the tap.. for a couple of days water changes.. i did this before.. do you think the city has something to do with this, though? what i mean is, the water thingy.. maybe they some adjustments?

what is the best way to put their eating habits back to normal? right now, i aged the water and see what's their reactions after water change.. right now, they all swimming with their heads down.. like, they are staring at something at the bottom..

do you guys know what caused this? guys, i don't have that much knowledge about disease but will pretty much know much after the experiences..

marvin

[MRQuad]

ok.. i have been reading the article from the disease thread.. i think i know what's going on.. if you guys know something and wants to share it.. that would be great as an additional information.. :D

[Eddie]

Marv, sorry to hear about this PM sent.

Talk soon,

Eddie

[MRQuad]

Marv, sorry to hear about this PM sent.

Talk soon,

Eddie

that is not a problem bud.. you've been helping me since i started discus.. you've done.. ;)

peace!

[calihawker]

Hang in there Marvin you got lots of support here as you well know. I can't contribute anything but I'll be watching closely.

Take care.

[yim11]

Is everything OK now? Was the problem due to something in your tap water?

Thanks,
-jim

[Wahter]

hi,
just wanna let you know that my fish are not doing great now.. huhu.. yesterday almost all of them lying on the top sideways..

i have noticed that whenever i do a water change, after a water change, the tank gets so cloudy.. i don't know what's wrong.. oh by the way, i didn't age the water, i used straight from the tap.. for a couple of days water changes.. i did this before.. do you think the city has something to do with this, though? what i mean is, the water thingy.. maybe they some adjustments?

marvin

Could be some gasses in the tap water, such as CO2, causing the cloudiness.

Do the fish 'recover' after time when the cloudiness disappears? If so, that might point to gas in the tap water.

If it's not too late, try aging the water in a bucket or empty tank with an airstone for a few hours before pouring it into the tank with the fish and see if that helps.

Hope that helps,


Walter

[Lytehouse]

Hope all turns out well for you. Did water change with your aged water work out?

[Eddie]

Marvin my friend, how is everything since we last talked? Hope all is well and hope the fish are settling. Please let us know.

Take care,

Eddie

[Scribbles]

How are they today Marvin? Best of luck with them.

Chris

[MRQuad]

guys, thanks for the follow up, i really really really appreciated it very much.. you guys are like my family.. despite of me having a difficulty writing in english, you guys still reads and fully understand what i am saying about.. guys, two thumbs up for all of you!

anyways.. so far, the biggest one that is swimming with head pointing down is doing good now.. he manages to swim around ok now.. balances really good act like normal..

just i have one another concern.. just now, the two other fish were darting around like crazy.. almost broke the heater.. i don't know what's going on.. and you know what? the other one manages to jump out of the tank and flapping around at the back of the stand.. i can't get it right away because i can't move the stand with the tank.. i can hear this guy flipping because i heard a loud bang on the wall and this fish. and manages to reach him and put it right away into the tank..

right now, he is swimming sideways on the bottom and top.. MAN, WHAT IS HAPPENING TO ME?

is there some sort of an internal bacteria that develops inside them? when i am saying about darting, as in they don't care what hit them.. and then, this two just swims around sideways..

should i give them metro? or what kind of medicine do you suggest? i only have metro and prazi handy..

right now, i saw them they started some aggression to each other.. the other two that darts around is very calm.. but breathing heavily.. hopefully they'll be fine..

guys, this is the worst thing that happened to me since i started the discus.. that is why this problems is pretty fresh to me.. please, consider this ignorances.. taking care and grow them is not hard, just like kids, but if they will show some symptoms, that's what i have to learn more about..

thanks for reading..

marvin

[Disgirl]

Marvin, so sorry to hear you are having this trouble. I think your English is fine, we can all understand you! Do you have a top on your tank to keep them from jumping out? I am thinking the problem may be in your water. Do you do a big water change daily? Have you called the city to see if they have done something different to the water? Are you using Prime when you change water? Is there any possibility you could have ammonia in your water? Maybe your biofilter is not working right? If it was me I would look to the water before even thinking of medicating them. Keep telling us what is happening and something will turn up as the cause. Good luck!
Barb

[MRQuad]

Marvin, so sorry to hear you are having this trouble. I think your English is fine, we can all understand you! Do you have a top on your tank to keep them from jumping out? I am thinking the problem may be in your water. Do you do a big water change daily? Have you called the city to see if they have done something different to the water? Are you using Prime when you change water? Is there any possibility you could have ammonia in your water? Maybe your biofilter is not working right? If it was me I would look to the water before even thinking of medicating them. Keep telling us what is happening and something will turn up as the cause. Good luck!
Barb

thanks barb! appreciated it.

the reason why he got out is because i open the lid to do water change.. i did a 50% water change daily.. i am not sure about the city if they did something into the water, actually i am on the phone right now to talk to them about the water.. i'm using a big-al's water conditioner every time i change water..

so far, the parameters of the water are the same as before this happens to them..

NITRATE = 5.0
PH = 7.2
AMMONIA = 0
NITRITE = 0

the above water parameters are the same result before and after water change. i hope this guys will be ok.. i don't care if i lost the contest as long as i can make them back to normal.. :(

[wgtaylor]

Hi Marvin,

Sorry this is happening to you.
Not sure the current situation with tank and water, but try to age the water and add prime. No medicine now. I also think it is a water problem.
To calm your fish you can add 1 tablespoon salt for each 10 gallon of water. It's not much but it should help. Don't change more than 1/4 of the water each day for a few days and replace that amount of salt with new water.
Disolve the salt in a glass of warm water before putting in the tank.
Feed less until they calm down and start begging for food again.
Let us know how they do. I'm sure they will pull through this, they are strong fish.
Take care

Bill

[Disgirl]

Marvin, I am not familiar with the water conditioner you use so I looked it up on the Big Al website. I see it has Aloe vera in it but it doesn't list the other ingredients. Read your bottle and see what all is in it. I just wonder if there may be something in there that is not good for the fish, using a lot of it everyday. I remember when I had angelfish trying to jump out of the tank it was due to poor water quality, in my case it was high ammonia I didn't know about then ( a long time ago). What temp do you keep the tank at? Any possibility of an electrical current in the water? Broken heater? I can't help but think it is something in your water.
Barb

[wgtaylor]

I agree with Barb, I don't think big-al's water conditioner removes chlorine and chloramine. Not good to detoxify water. I would use Seachem Prime from Big Al's if you have city water. You may have been lucky by aging the water before but I think you quit and started using it straight from tap. That may be ok if you use prime. Anyway that could be the source of the problem.

Bill

[mmorris]

I agree with Barb, I don't think big-al's water conditioner removes chlorine and chloramine. Not good to detoxify water. I would use Seachem Prime from Big Al's if you have city water. You may have been lucky by aging the water before but I think you quit and started using it straight from tap. That may be ok if you use prime. Anyway that could be the source of the problem.

Bill

Agree with Bill - Big Al's water conditioner says nothing about removing chlorine or chloramine and so we assume it doesn't. Marvin, get yourself some water conditioner that removes chlorine and chloramine immediately!

[calihawker]

If I remember correctly, aging the water will not remove chloromine. Another reason to rush out and get some prime.:)

[MRQuad]

guys, thanks for everything.. should i get a salt and a prime right now?

as of now, the biggest one i think it's not gonna make it.. it went back to swimming with the head point down and losses it's balance. and he's very weak. swimming upside down now.. and his tummy is kinda bloated.. according to article in disease thread, i will treat it with epsom salt or something? the others are breathing heavily.. some will dart as usual.. i called the city earlier about the quality of the water but don't get an answer because of almost 5 o'clock pm.

here's what the big-als back label says:

BIG-AL'S MULTI-PURPOSE AQUARIUM WATER CONDITIONER when added to the aquarium, replaces the natural slime coating on the skin and fins of fish which may be damaged in handling, netting, fish fighting, or in other times of stress. The Aloe Vera in BIG AL'S WATER CONDITIONER provides natural healing power, preventing the loss of internal fluids and electrolytes through the skin. BIG AL'S WATER CONDITIONER also conditions aqarium water by removing chlorine and buffering the pH of fresh water.

here's what the big-al's front label says:

-replaces the natural slime coating fish may lose in times of stress.
-removes chlorine from tap water
-contains aloe vera to promote the healing of skin wounds and torn fins
-use whenever setting up a fresh or salt water aquarium, changing water, adding new fish to the tank, and fish are damaged by injury or disease.

thanks for reading.

[2075turner]

guys, thanks for everything.. should i get a salt and a prime right now?

as of now, the biggest one i think it's not gonna make it.. it went back to swimming with the head point down and losses it's balance. and he's very weak. swimming upside down now.. and his tummy is kinda bloated.. according to article in disease thread, i will treat it with epsom salt or something? the others are breathing heavily.. some will dart as usual.. i called the city earlier about the quality of the water but don't get an answer because of almost 5 o'clock pm.

here's what the big-als back label says:

BIG-AL'S MULTI-PURPOSE AQUARIUM WATER CONDITIONER when added to the aquarium, replaces the natural slime coating on the skin and fins of fish which may be damaged in handling, netting, fish fighting, or in other times of stress. The Aloe Vera in BIG AL'S WATER CONDITIONER provides natural healing power, preventing the loss of internal fluids and electrolytes through the skin. BIG AL'S WATER CONDITIONER also conditions aqarium water by removing chlorine and buffering the pH of fresh water.

here's what the big-al's front label says:

-replaces the natural slime coating fish may lose in times of stress.
-removes chlorine from tap water
-contains aloe vera to promote the healing of skin wounds and torn fins
-use whenever setting up a fresh or salt water aquarium, changing water, adding new fish to the tank, and fish are damaged by injury or disease.

thanks for reading.
Hi Marvin

Sorry to hear of your difficulties. I would get some Prime right away and start using it. Same for the salt...it will relieve your fish of some stress. Stop doing your water changes to see if it is indeed the water from the tap. There might be some work being done on some water lines around your area that would affect the water chemistry coming into your home. I use prime myself and I fill directly from the tap. It sounds like it is the water more than a disease that you are dealing with. Hope that all turns out okay for your fish

[MRQuad]

it's been brutal watching this guys dying.. the big one is lying down now and not moving around.. after that, there is this two darting around and lying sideways and starts to lost their balance....

guys, i don't know.. but i feel like someone been pinching my heart and try to tear up into small pieces.. i think this is it for this guys, i hope i can save some of these guys.. :(:(:(:(

[MRQuad]

man, i called every pet store in my area and they don't even have an epsom salt.. gggggrrrrrrrrrrr..

guys, is the sea salt be fine?

[Disgirl]

You don't want epsom salt Marvin, that is for constipation in the fish. You need uniodized table salt or sea salt is good. Use 1 tablespoon per each 10 gal. of water.
Barb

[MRQuad]

You don't want epsom salt Marvin, that is for constipation in the fish. You need uniodized table salt or sea salt is good. Use 1 tablespoon per each 10 gal. of water.
Barb

ok i got it.. that's what the article says.. use epsom salt.. anyways, eddie mentioned that i use 2 tbsp / 10 gallon and you said 1 tbsp / 10 gallon is two be safe?

[MRQuad]

.

thanks graham..

[Disgirl]

If it was me I would start out with 1 tablespoon in 10 gal. See how they look. You could add another tablespoon /10 gal later on. As before, epsom salt is for bloat due to constipation. Regular salt is for calming and making more comfortable in the water.
Barb

[wgtaylor]

Marvin, didn't know your fish had bloat until after I posted. Yes for bloat use epson salt, can start with 1 tablespoon per 10 gallon, if not better in 4 hours add another 1 tablespoon per 10 gallon. If that is what it is they should be better in 24 hours.
I think you feed a lot of pellets and bloat could be a possibility.
I think if I were you I would still get prime to be on the safe side.

Bill

edit, good post Barb, beat me to it.

[MRQuad]

i know you guys will tell me about how ignorant i am about this, but please blame me later.. this is unexpected..

i got back from a LFS and got a PRIME with me.. i just added 5ml on the tank.. the instructions says: 5ml every 50g.. should i go beyond that? or, should i just follow the instructions.. what do you guys think about the dosage of this prime thing.. as for the salt, im still melting it.. it will follow soon after i make it to melt..

keep it coming guys..

[MRQuad]

guys, here's the video of the poor fish.. after this video, there is 3 more doing the same thing as this guy.. so, there's four all in all..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FiN-fNmWews

[Disgirl]

Well, it sure looks like it is something in the water Marvin. They just don't look diseased at all, very healthy up until now. Something has "poisoned" them. I still say use regular salt, not epsom. Fish wouldn't look like this from bloat. We all feel sad for you and the fish Marvin. I sure want to hear what the water company has to say about the water. You can use 1 or 2 teaspoons per 50 gal of water with Prime.
Barb :(

[wgtaylor]

Marvin, I would follow instructions on the prime.
In video that guy is one that jumped out of tank? Maybe cannot help him.
I couldn't see bloat in fish in video but not so easy to tell on video.
Epsom salt will do good for bloat, won't hurt if not.
You have them in another tank again. Was this tank clean, free of any polutants for sure?
You have 2 heaters in this tank did you always have 2 or was there a problem with one?
Just trying to cover all possible causes,
Don't worry buddy, we are all here only trying to help you. It happens to all of us sometime.

Bill

[MRQuad]

Well, it sure looks like it is something in the water Marvin. They just don't look diseased at all, very healthy up until now. Something has "poisoned" them. I still say use regular salt, not epsom. Fish wouldn't look like this from bloat. We all feel sad for you and the fish Marvin. I sure want to hear what the water company has to say about the water. You can use 1 or 2 teaspoons per 50 gal of water with Prime.
Barb :(

thanks a lot for your time barb, i really appreciated it very much..

[MRQuad]

Marvin, I would follow instructions on the prime.
In video that guy is one that jumped out of tank? Maybe cannot help him.
I couldn't see bloat in fish in video but not so easy to tell on video.
Epsom salt will do good for bloat, won't hurt if not.
You have them in another tank again. Was this tank clean, free of any polutants for sure?
You have 2 heaters in this tank did you always have 2 or was there a problem with one?
Just trying to cover all possible causes,
Don't worry buddy, we are all here only trying to help you. It happens to all of us sometime.

Bill

tanks for the response bill.. appreciated it very much.. yeah, i have them in another tank, it was clean and free from pollutants.. on the video, it wasn't the guy that jump out.. it was the biggest one that first should some symptoms.. and as for the heater, i have them two to heat up right away the tank, i unplugged the other one, just forgot to take it out of the tank.

[MRQuad]

this is sad in my part.. I LOST MY JOB, LOST MY TRIO (discus), LOST ANOTHER PAIR (discus) and now TWO OF MY CONTEST FISH (discus)..

yeah guys, two of them didn't make it.. the one on the video and the one that jumped.. they're both dead..

the size of the two:

BIGGEST = 4.75"
SMALLEST = 4.0"

that's official.. i will post a picture of both..

as of now, i got 3 more struggling, swimming upside down.. that leads to one only healthy discus in the tank left..

my little boy still keeps crying because of the fish died..

thanks guys for the help..

[Disgirl]

So sorry to hear this Marvin. What a sad thing to happen. But try to keep things in perspective. These are only fish. We love our discus but after all is said and done they are just fish. It is your family that really matters. Hang onto them and enjoy your family. You will have more discus in the future. Don't be too hard on yourself, these things happen in this hobby. Just do the best you can and keep moving forward!
Barb :)

[calihawker]

Man, this is so hard to watch and read.:( I really feel for you bro. Don't worry, no one's gonna blame you for anything. We're all in the same boat with these fish. It can happen to any one of us at any time. Hang in there, chin up.

[Chad Hughes]

Holy cow Marvin! I just read all of your posts. I'm sorry to hear about all of this. Do you have any idea what went wrong? Sorry for the losses.

Best wishes!

[wgtaylor]

Hey Marvin, sort of at a loss for words, that is a lot of bad luck lately but I know things will have to get better for you. Show your boy how to be strong.

Do you have the epsom salt in the water yet? Have you seen any poop from them. If they don't get better in 4 hours add the second tablespoon and just try to get them through the night.
When they get through this, some people soak the pellets in a little water before feeding. Pellets can swell up to twice size. Especially with little greedy ones.
I did the same thing when I first fed mine pellets they looked like little yellow golf balls. Very scary.

If you do water change in morning, add full dose of prime to tank before refilling their water.
Hope they are better tomorrow.
Take care buddy,

Bill

[Eddie]

ok i got it.. that's what the article says.. use epsom salt.. anyways, eddie mentioned that i use 2 tbsp / 10 gallon and you said 1 tbsp / 10 gallon is two be safe?

Marvin, sorry to hear about the events. I did not advise you to use Epsom salt, I said table salt (non-iodized). As others mentioned, Epsom salt is for bloat and you do not have any bloat issues going on.

Eddie

[MRQuad]

thanks guys for the inputs.. i know it's freakin' hard.. i think if i lose all of these fish, i will try to cool off on discus a little bit.. and be back maybe a couple years.. well, it happened..

right now, i think the 3 is not gonna make it through the night.. they are hardly breathing at all.. i think i can keep just one.. :(:(


Hey Marvin, sort of at a loss for words, that is a lot of bad luck lately but I know things will have to get better for you. Show your boy how to be strong.

Do you have the epsom salt in the water yet? Have you seen any poop from them. If they don't get better in 4 hours add the second tablespoon and just try to get them through the night.
When they get through this, some people soak the pellets in a little water before feeding. Pellets can swell up to twice size. Especially with little greedy ones.
I did the same thing when I first fed mine pellets they looked like little yellow golf balls. Very scary.

If you do water change in morning, add full dose of prime to tank before refilling their water.
Hope they are better tomorrow.
Take care buddy,

Bill

i didn't got a chance to buy an epsom salt.. i called all the LFS but don't have any.. i did use the sea salt though..

[Eddie]

Marvin, is there no way to get Prime from anyone? Have you added air to the tank?

Eddie

[MRQuad]

Marvin, is there no way to get Prime from anyone? Have you added air to the tank?

Eddie

eddie,

i got a prime, i put a dosage right after i got it.. i have 2 inlet of air.. right now, they are in a 40G tank.. and the air pump capacity is at least 60G tank.

[wgtaylor]

Marvin, I'm so sorry. That went so fast. In the video only one looked bad. Still not sure what happened but sometimes we can only do the best we can and feel good that we made our best effort.

You may give up on discus for a while but don't give up on your friends here. We will still want to hear about your family, new job and citizenship. :):):)
Take care, good luck with everything,

Bill

[Scribbles]

Marvin,

You have taken excellent care of your discus. Sometimes bad things just happen. Sometimes alot of bad things happen. It's not your fault. Try not to beat yourself up. Things will turn around.

Chris

[rickztahone]

sorry for the loss Marvin but it happens. many of us go through such things, heck Eddie is going through his 3rd outbreak as i type.
first, Epsom salt can be bought at any pharmacy. people buy this salt for foot baths.
second, i think having Albino's is a little more challenging than with regular discus just because they do not show symptoms like other discus do. usually you can tell from tell-tell indicators when a fish is starting to get sick. regardless, now that it happened you can learn from this experience. i honestly think that this was water related but at the end it just seemed like there was something else wrong (per the video). i once had a small discus do that kind of crazy swimming action and it was due to me not properly cycling my tank. i know yours was cycled but maybe something got introduced into the city water, it does happen. i know we test ammonia, nitrite, nitrate but those are really just the bare minimums when it comes to testing the water. there can be other elements in the water column that might have been affecting those discus. either way, you still have some that you can still save. the prime will eliminate most of the stuff that needs to be eliminated, it might have been too late for the ones that passed. what other symptoms are you noticing? tell us everything, and i mean everything you notice that is out of the ordinary. are they breathing from both gills? breathing heavy? cloudy eyes? do they flash? do they react to your presence? have they ate anything? if they are i would suggest just feeding bloodworms. again, i know it's difficult to go through these things, i had to treat my fish at least 7 times with at least 5 different meds. hang in there and try to save these fish. keep us updated buddy

[Eddie]

Marvin, I have not been able to see the videos, only read about the problems. I am lost as to what happened really. You moved the fish to the 40 for what reason? Was the 40 gallon sterilized and totally free of any possible pollutants prior to putting the fish in? Was there ever a diseased fish in that 40?

I really wish I could see the videos and help you out. I feel your pain and I am definitely there with you every step of the way. Don't give up, no matter what. You will pin this down and learn from it.

I am sorry and all my best,

Eddie

[Disgirl]

Once again Marvin , I am so sorry. Eddie, have a look at the way his fish were swimming on Aug 19, when he had them in the newly black painted tank. Check the video, they look like something is going on with them then. So, I am thinking the problem started in the big black tank and continued when he transferred them to the 40 gal. What do you think? Sure hope the problem can be solved. Hang in there Marvin.
Barb

[2075turner]

Marvin,

So sorry to hear of your bad news. I was hoping that they would pull through for you. Please don't take it out on yourself about these fish. As it was mentioned...they are fish. Things will go wrong with them, we will treat them the best that we can and sometimes it just doesn't work out for us. I still believe that it has to do with your water coming in through the tap. Keep treating the water with prime and see what is going on with the remaining fish.

TC Evelyn:)

[MRQuad]

hi guys,

thanks for the effort.. but i think that's it for this guys..

this morning, i got 1 died after like 15mins another one died..

here's the measurement of them:

THIRD FISH DIED = 4.25"
FOURTH FISH DIED = 4.0"

that's when i woke up in the morning.. now, i performed a 100% water change again.. after that, the two that remains are darting around like crazy for almost a min. after darting around.. boom! they are lying on the bottom now..

i noticed on my water even the aged one.. they are still cloudy.. even i put in the prime and it's been 12hrs. but still the water in the age bucket is soo cloudy.. i feel like i wanna use my aikido to someone who has something to do with this..

again guys, i got two remaining lying on the bottom with a cloudy water and dying.. i hope this fish will forgive me.. :(:(

[Eddie]

Marvin, very sorry to hear. Is there something in the storage container? I just don't understand what it is that is dropping them directly after a water change. That pushes me to toxins in the water. Do you have any way of filtering the tank water with activated carbon. It may be too late but worth a shot.

Eddie

[Condor]

Marvin, very sorry to hear. Is there something in the storage container? I just don't understand what it is that is dropping them directly after a water change. That pushes me to toxins in the water. Do you have any way of filtering the tank water with activated carbon. It may be too late but worth a shot.

Eddie

I am thinking the same thing. Maybe something in the water that is poison. Also, is this happening in multiple tanks? Did anything happen to the filters in the move? Maybe kill the bio? I am sorry to see this happen Marvin, hang in there.

Adrian

[MRQuad]

Marvin, very sorry to hear. Is there something in the storage container? I just don't understand what it is that is dropping them directly after a water change. That pushes me to toxins in the water. Do you have any way of filtering the tank water with activated carbon. It may be too late but worth a shot.

Eddie

eddie,

there is only a heater and an airstone on the storage container.. the fish is dying even i didn't use the container to age the water.. i suspected TWO that has something to do with this.. THE CITY AND THE COMPANY that i have the system installed last 6 months ago..

i already called the city but no answer.. i called the company they said they'll send someone to check everything up for a faulty system and go from there.

i don't have any other filters to use with activated carbon. man, it's very heart breaking bud.. i guess i want to express all of this misery to our DOJO tonight.. it's haunting me..

thanks bud!

[MRQuad]

I am thinking the same thing. Maybe something in the water that is poison. Also, is this happening in multiple tanks? Did anything happen to the filters in the move? Maybe kill the bio? I am sorry to see this happen Marvin, hang in there.

Adrian

thanks adrian.. there is nothing happens to the filter right before or after i moved them.. the same thing, it's just that different tank with new water..

other tanks? they are all dying on me.. all of them died before this.. now, i got:

1 X 40G = 2 dying fish
1 X 30G = empty
1 X 110G = empty
1 X 55G = empty

that is all i've got.. :(:(

[Eddie]

Man, this is frustrating, wish I could be there to help you! Can you get a cheap filter and filter the tank with activated carbon for now?

Eddie

[wgtaylor]

Hey Marvin

I wouldn't do a water change for a couple days, they don't need to have the daily changes.
Maybe your water source will clear by then.

Bill

[Disgirl]

Well, dang it all Marvin! We know you tried to save them. It just has to be something in your water. Be sure to keep pestering the city to tell you about the water. And let someone come check it out in your home if you can. Did all your other fish die the same way? How long has it all been going on? Just days or much longer? Somehow the cause has to be found. Try to be strong and you will get through this, just keep looking forward and don't spend too much time looking back. It will help.
Barb

[MRQuad]

guys, thanks alot for all of your inputs.. you know what until now, the water is still so cloudy.. i never had this cloudy water before.. that even a couple of days, it's still sooo cloudy..

anyways, here's the video of them dying..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFnJ_TRFae0

[wgtaylor]

Marvin, ya, that video is tough to watch. I know how hard you have tried with them.
Prime should have got rid of the chlorine, chloramines and most heavy metals so
charcoal filter or ro water would be your only choice now.
It's possible they have put copper pipes in your house and it's leaching into the water too
or work on the main lines by you, it's really impossible to tell, no crystal ball for this one.
Cannot tell if your cloudy water is tiny air bubbles or milky sediment?

You have lost a lot of discus and that's not good, if the fish cannot live in your water then
if I were you I would invest in a small ro unit for drinking and cooking water and maybe a
little left over to run one of your tanks.

I hope one or two are able to get through this, they will be your hero's.

Bill

[Scribbles]

I feel for you Marvin. We've all been there but that doesn't make it any easier. I agree that there is something in the water. Who knows what. We are all here for you.

Chris

[Eddie]

Man Marv, that is very hard to watch. The fish still look gorgeous just not surviving. I am very sorry this has happened and hope that you can figure out what went wrong. Are you 100% positive that you have never used any old equipment that the fish are around now. Was the tank new or sterilized, was the net new or sterilized? Anything at all, was it ever used with other fish?

From the video, I don't see any cloudy water. I see white particles floating around and stuff collected on the filter but no cloudiness really.

Eddie

[MRQuad]

thanks again guys for the kind words..

this is official and final report about the contest fish.. the two fish didn't make it.. they both died..

here's their measurements:
5TH FISH DIED = 4.25"
6TH FISH DIED = 4.0"

i think that's it for me now..

eddie,

what i knew before i moved them.. i sterilized everything and after two weeks i used the sterilized equipment.. such as, python hose, heater, return pump. but that was two weeks from a good rinse.. i used bleach 1:10. i am pretty sure that everything been rinse properly after the sterilized.

other than that, i can't think of anything else that i didn..

[Eddie]

I am very sorry to hear Marvin, I hate to see it. Not sure what happened but it was fast and there seems to be alot variables involved. I am very very sorry my friend. As mentioned, you may be out of the discus thing for a while but don't be too far from Simply. You have many great friends here and it will always be nice to have you around.

Take care and make sure you stay in touch,

Eddie

[MRQuad]

I am very sorry to hear Marvin, I hate to see it. Not sure what happened but it was fast and there seems to be alot variables involved. I am very very sorry my friend. As mentioned, you may be out of the discus thing for a while but don't be too far from Simply. You have many great friends here and it will always be nice to have you around.

Take care and make sure you stay in touch,

Eddie

thanks bud.. like i said a while back that simply discus been part of my life.. every time i turned on my computer the default website that comes out is SIMPLY.. i have a lot and great friends in here.. i will never forget this site and to those people that help me a lot.. and you are one of those people bud.. thanks for never giving up on my questions.

i might cool off from keeping discus but learning and sharing in here will never be off.. (you made me cry eddie)

[Eddie]

Aw Marvin, its all good. When something happens to our fish, we all feel it. It affects all of us. Always here for you my friend, always.

Eddie

[kirkp]

Marv, I just ran across this post and I don't know how I missed it earlier. I'm very very sorry to hear about all of your losses both in the fish and your job. It's tough to watch the videos. Remember to keep a stiff upper lip as it WILL get better. Wish there would of been something I could have done to help but you had a lot of good help from forum members. I'm curious, you mentioned that you lost a trio and a pair. Did they act the same before they died?

Again, hate to see you give up but I can understand because it's very disheartening when you have put so much effort into something and then it goes down the tube. You were doing a excellent job with your fish. Please do stick around and chime in once in awhile.

Best of luck with everything.

Kirk

[Chad Hughes]

Marvin,

I just wanted to give you my sympathies as well. It seems like yesterday everything was all going well and then suddenly this. It's very shocking and sudden. I am at a loss.

A break can be a good thing. Focus on something else for a while and the discus "flame" will return. I promise you that. At least stick around and talk to us here on SD.

I know one thing for sure, you have learned a great deal and so have the rest of us. If possible, can you get to the root of your water issues and teach us all what went wrong so that we may be able to help ourselves or others in the future? There has to be something going on there. I'm the type that doesn't rest until I know what's up.

Thanks for all your support Marvin. That's what this site is all about. Just know that my thoughts are with you.

Best wishes!

[TankWatcher]

Oh Marvin, what a hard time you are having. I am very sad to read this. Keep strong. You are doing your very best & no-one can do more than that.

[wgtaylor]

Hey Marvin has to be tough on you this happening, makes everyone sad because you have become such a good friend here.

This may give you time to figure out the water problems and when you get started with discus again there will be no stopping you then.

Please stay in touch with us here, we will be anxious to hear how you are doing.
Take care buddy,
Bill

[calihawker]

Marvin, my friend, what can I say. I'll tell you that I look at mine in a whole new way now. Believe me, this can happen to any one of us. I really enjoy talking to all my friends here and SD would be a little emptier without you so wherever you go and whatever you do PLEASE keep in touch.:o



:angel::fish::fish::fish::fish::fish::fish::angel:



Take care my friend.

[Lytehouse]

I hate this for you Marvin. You seem to have a great caring for your fish and your family.

Reading the last couple of pages again, actually a couple of times, I'm really glad to have found this forum.

Doing searches, found several forums.... watched them all for week or so before joining this one. This thread alone tells me I made a good choice. Really great group of people.

[Scribbles]

Marvin, I am so sorry that this happened. You did everything that you could for your discus. SD is a community, when one of us is hurt we all hurt. Even if you take a short break from discus remember to stay in touch. Take care.

Chris

[Mr Wild]

NO need to say more than what has already been said. Ditto to all the above. Take care Marvin.

[mmorris]

Did all your other fish die the same way? How long has it all been going on? Just days or much longer?
Barb

I'm so sorry to hear, Marvin. Discus can break our hearts unlike any other fish. Barb asked some important questions. :)

[acroken]

Marvin, i am so sorry to hear about this happening to you. do not beat yourself up over it. the water companies do not care about dumping chemicals into your water. Keep your chin up. things will turn around for you. you are part of this site, stay involved:D

Kenny

[2075turner]

Marvin

So sorry to hear of the hard times that you have had lately. If anything it can only get better....till then just hang in there. We can tell from the photos and videos that you were taking good care of these fish. Hope that you return to the hobby soon.

Evelyn

[cmich]

I'm sorry Marvin,

Take comfort in knowing you did everything that you could to care for these fish. This type of thing happens sometimes, regardless of how well we care for them. It's a shame that you had to go through this, but keep your head up. I wish you the best of luck in whatever you do. Don't be a stranger.

Blake

[kpotter2]

Marvin, I know you will recover. I to and many others have been in your shoes. About a year ago I went through something I have never came across before and didn't lose everything,but lost alot if you know what I mean. I had just got my Pair to raise a good spawn and about two months later all my tanks came down with a something one by one. I think clearly there was a water thing going on,but from video I saw it look nerological or it could have been a swimming blader infection. Who know,but you did the best you could with what you had and knew.

Keep your head up and don't give up. Just take a brake and come back strong. This is what I did and things have worked out well.

Good luck and take care

Kyle

[wadewc]

Marvin, I just ran across this post I'm very very sorry to hear about all of your losses both in the fish and your job.

Wade

[fishyj]

Marvin, I haven't been on in a while, but I am sorry to here about your fish. I had a similar problem with an African tank. After doing my water change from the tap I lost over 30 fish. I found out it was a water problem with the city here. Hang in there.

[Stormy]

I'm so sorry to hear of this news Marvin. I to think it was definately something going on with the water that was out of your control.
It happened to me here a while back as well, but not with Discus. Lost a bunch of fish after a water change only to find out the city was cleaning the main water pipe on our street, tons of chlorine, no way I could have known.

When you are ready for Discus again please give me a shout, I'll always have a couple around here to get you started again.
All the best
Stormy

[Ryan]

Marvin,

I am very sorry to hear of your losses. Know that you did everything you could to raise beautiful, healthy fish. It definitely sounds like something happened to your water. This is not your fault. I know how frustrating that can be. I had to give up my previous discus because of water issues at my old house.

Sometimes after experiencing a loss like this, it's best to take a break and figure things out. I hope that you will stay in the hobby, though! Things like this happen but there is always the chance to start again.

Ryan

[Peachtree Discus]

Quad: i hadn't read in on this post since like #5....aah man :(, so sorry to hear about your situations. hold tight....things will be alright. search yourself, ....sometimes negative events spin out some great results. i do hope to see u back into discus soon.

Good Luck.

[Armandi_Fishcarer]

Marvin, always sad to see these things happen & I'm sorry to hear, & yep these things happen even to the most experienced of us. I don't wan't to bring things up too much although losing a whole few tanks worth lately I really know how hard it is especially when all tests & precautions have been taken. I just keep fighting On. You have & will continue doing a fantastic job & just find that inner you! ;)

Regards
Ahmed :D

[Larry208]

Marvin:

I know how you feel, I lost a whole tank of Wild caught Blue Frontosa`s that I brought from a friend. I was doing everything right had several females holding eggs and 2 females actually holding fry, everything was going great. Fed them in the morning and came home from work to feed again and the whole tank (all 12 fish ) were dead. Figured out that the heater got broke and the water got hot enough in just 8 hours to kill them all.

keep your chin up things will always get better....
remember you have friends here.....


Larry

[MRQuad]

Howdy guys..

long time no hear.. i'm so glad that i am back here in forum.. I figured out what's going on to my fish, but if you guys wanna know, i will still share it to you.. what went wrong.. i just don't get the chance to post any updates here.. sorry about that..

first of all, i would like to say thank you to people that listen to me and help me through my troubles.. thank you guys!

second, i would like to say thank you also to three people that offers me some juveniles at that time after i lose my contest fish.. and one offers me a pair at that time.. man, even though you guys didn't know me in real life, you still there to support me.. sorry that i reject your offer at that time, but thanks anyway!

i am glad that i am back and i think i am ready to go for another shot! but not right away, cause i still don't have a job..

from now on, i'm back active to this website.. LOVE YOU GUYS! :angel:

[wgtaylor]

Hi Marvin
Really good to hear from you again.
I'm sure everyone would be very interested in finding out what went wrong with your discus as we all felt your pain when that happened.
Wish you the best with everything, take care buddy, :)
Bill

[yeaboyt]

Glad your absence was only temporary and you're back on the forum Marvin! Setbacks like the one you had would affect even the most veteran of fish keepers.

Take your time especially in light of your employment situation. The opportunity to get new stock will always be there but continue to comment on or create new discussion threads!

[Chad Hughes]

I'm glad to hear your back! I knew you would be! :)

Best wishes!

[Eddie]

Hey there Marvin! Glad to see you back and if you have time, shoot me a PM. Be good to here what was going on and how you are doing.

Take care my friend!

Eddie

[rickztahone]

glad to have you back Marvin! very interested to hear what you found out about what happened to the contest discus.

[2075turner]

Hey Marvin,

glad that you are back, I was just thinking of you the other day...hope that all is going better for you:)

[TankWatcher]

Welcome back Marvin

Good to hear from you. When you have time, it would be good to hear what you found out about the past problems you had.

[Scribbles]

Glad to see you're back Marvin! I hope that things are going better for you. If you get a chance it would be interesting to hear what you found out about your water issues. We might all learn something from it.

Chris

[MRQuad]

Hey guys!

sorry for the late response.. oh boy, my bad..

anyways, the problems was in the water..

CHLORINE
- i have some water specialist to come over to test my water and it is positive of CHLORINE. and mentioned to us that even for drinks the water is not safe.

- a 24hrs. of aging the water is not enough to get rid of the chlorine that is present in the water (the guy came over after 24hrs. and have him test the water for me), it took me almost 48hrs. to clear the chlorine in the water that i aged. i used prime.

FILTER MINI-CYCLING
- sorry guys, i don't know what is the term to use to best fit, what i am trying to explain.

- anyways, at that day, i mentioned that the water is so cloudy.. it is maybe because of the beneficial bacteria that lives in the filter are all dead.

reason:
the day before it all happened, i ask my wife to give me a help by cleaning the filter of the contest tank, which she did, but she uses BLEACH to clean it and wipe out the beneficial bacteria. (just my thought) but she said, she rinse it properly and put it back.

POISONED by BLEACH

these are the only 3 causes why my fishes behaving like crazy and died in front of me. that i don't have any ideas what's going on.

LESSONS LEARNED:
- please, age the water and have a chlorine test to make sure the water is safe for your discus.

- if you ask someone to do you a favor, explain to them what to do and not to do before you let them.

guys, those are the only causes that we can come up with.. based on the investigation that we did.. i have a lot of time to do this because i am just at home.. no job yet..

right now, i am so confident that i'll be successful for my next batch because of what i have discovered. am so excited to be back.. maybe early next year, and who know's my wife have some surprise for me this holiday.. *crossing fingers*

please, feel free to comment guys! miss you all!

[fishyj]

Hi Marvin, Like I said before, sorry about the fish. It probably was a combination of everything that you talked about. I had a similar problem with a tank of africans. I am glad to see your back and not giving up on these beautiful fish. On the first batch of discus I ever had, out of 12 I have 4 left. I guess even after all my years of fish keeping, I still had a lot to learn. Understanding the water to me was the hardest part of keeping these fish.

[wgtaylor]

Hey guys!
sorry for the late response.. oh boy, my bad..
anyways, the problems was in the water..

LESSONS LEARNED:
- please, age the water and have a chlorine test to make sure the water is safe for your discus.

- if you ask someone to do you a favor, explain to them what to do and not to do before you let them.

right now, i am so confident that i'll be successful for my next batch because of what i have discovered. am so excited to be back.. maybe early next year, and who know's my wife have some surprise for me this holiday.. *crossing fingers*

please, feel free to comment guys! miss you all!

Hi Marvin,
Good to hear you may have found the cause of the problems. It can happen to anyone that was as busy as you then.
I'm glad you took the time again to explain how this happened and possibly help others. Also good to hear you may be able to get back into discus.
It is indeed good to hear from you again and I hope you and your family have a good holiday. (have my fingers crossed for you too) :):)
Take care buddy,
Bill

[2075turner]

Hey Marvin
I am glad to hear that you are back and in a positive frame of mind. Things happen and we just have to go on. If you need my help getting up and going with the way of fish, just drop me a line. I would be glad to help out. Hope that all goes better for you in the new year and that you get a job soon. Happy Holidays.:santa:
Evelyn:)

[tcyiu]

Marvin,
I did not see this thread until just now. Oh my. If had I seen this earlier while this was going on, I'm not sure I would have been able to sleep. Glad you've got everything figured it out.

If you continue to use bleach as a disinfectant, I would recommend keeping some Sodium Thiosulphate on hand. This is the active ingredient that neutralizes Chlorine and Chloramine.

It is super cheap. A USD$10 bottle will last you a llifetime. Here's an example of an online source. (http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/Pool-Chemicals/Pool-Adjusters/Chlor-Neutralizer-3-lbs/D/30100/P/1:100:1000:100030/I/14253) And it is not toxic.

If you ever suspect bleach poisoning, put a small amount of this in the water immediately. Prime and other water conditioners can only neutralize the low concentration that is typically found in tap water. When using bleach to clean, the concentrations are too high for Prime etc, to be effective.

Best of luck.

Tim

[heckel90]

first of all I´m not allowed to send PM to you cause I only have 2 post.

well...Hi Marvin!, I´m Martin Michajtyszyn from Argentina, fanatic of discus (too much) since I was 16, now 32.

I have read your post and....and it was hard to read and see (the worst). remembers appeared...

in my case I gave up when I accidentaly killed my pair with overdosis (formol), when I was 18. that was enough. 12 years with no discus.

in 2006 or 2007 I bought 4 discus for a friend and quarentined them a month. after a metro treatment I did a 80% water change, and in minutes all the discus started to behave very bad, especially the 2 youngest. next day these 2 died. the 2 biggest after other water change were better and they made it. my problem was your problem, exactly.
the first water change: aged 24hs with no additives with heater and water pump but...the storage was too high and thin so the chlorine couldnt leave properly. this water was the main problem.
the second water change: I aged water in other storage with better shape and a bigger surface. the problem was solved!

as you said...24 hs is not enough to take out any extra chlorine in the tap water with no additives.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
I must say discus fish are not for everyone...I think they are for especial people ready to do the best no matter how.

----------------------------------------------------------------

by the way your post.... made me cry.

---------------------------------------------------------------

and HAPPY NEW YEAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!

with HOPE AND... OF COURSE NEW THINGS TO LEARN AND NEW CHALLERGERS:)!!!! (otherwise it´d be boring!! hehe)

-------------------------------------------


Martin

[dbfzurowski]

some story, heart breaking.

[mountain_priest]

same thing happened to my quarantine tank last week. lost my 2 albino juvies, if only have read this thread sooner:mad:

[lkc]

Marvin,
I don't know you and you don't know me but I have been reading your story on the edge of my seat and with a heavy heart. I am glad there is an ending to this one, not a happy ending but, a positive one. Good luck and I hope this is the beginning of a new venture for you.