Python Vs. Aqueon/Marina Gravel Vacs

[Sharkbait]

I need to stop sucking water into a bucket! I have to join the world of easy water changing.

I've noticed that some stores have stopped selling the Python No Spill Gravel Vac and in its place, are now selling a Aqueon Gravel Vac or Marina Gravel Vac. Has anyone had any experience with either of these in comparison to the Python? I've just heard so many good things about the Python.

MY problem is, the place that I'm renting right now has one of those extendable kitchen faucets. So, i really don't know how I would attach the Python in the first place...it looks very similar to this....

http://www.chinasanitaryware.com/Faucet/Images/FT05-402.jpg

So, how would I hook it up? I think it could attach to my bathroom faucet, but I don't think there's enough room for attachment - the faucet is very low to the basin.

Are there any adapters that I'm not aware of that would work? - I'm no plumber and don't know what Home Depot has to offer :)

[Eddie]

This is what I use to attach to my bathroom faucet. ;)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000255NWS/ref=olp_sort_p?ie=UTF8&tag=trtprd-20&sort=price&condition=new

[Matt in Houston]

The pythons come now with a brass faucet adapter...the Aqueon is plastic...

I have used both....both have broken on me. After a few months of use the Aqueon exploded from the plastic breaking at connection at the sink. Water shot everywhere for a few seconds before I could turn it off.

My python just broke as well..similar cause but it was because I was stretching the hose as far as I could and it put pressure on the plastic part that is connected to the brass adapter. It didnt explode, but did crack and spring a leak. Luckily the local Petco now stocks the replacement parts for the Python and I spent 10 bux to get a new piece.

I think the Aqueon has the better hose and vac, but the python has the better faucet connection.

Now I just use a spa hose, its 1.5" in diameter. I just gravity vac the tank out the front door. Its much faster and doesnt waste any water. I attached a large diameter piece of clear tubing to the end of the spa hose to make my own vac and now I can see what I'm doing a little better. I still can use the python to fill, but I have a custom carbon bottle that I use now to help filter the water a little, so I fill it that way.

Just a tip, if you want to save some money dont buy the spa hose by the foot at the hardware store. You can find it pre-packaged, 30ft+ for around $30 or less.

[yim11]

How do you start the siphon?

Thanks,
-jim

[Matt in Houston]

How do you start the siphon?

Thanks,
-jim

Sometimes I can just start it by putting the hose in the water and lifting it a few times to get water down it...

But, its usually faster and works everytime to just walk to the end of the hose and start it the old fashioned way by giving it a good pull from my lungs. :o

[tcyiu]

If the aquarium is even 2 ft above where you can discharge it (like to a garden, lawn, bathtub drain) get a length of vinyl hose and just use gravity feed. In other words, UNLESS you need to move water uphill, don't use a python. It is my opinion that pythons needlessly waste water (and energy to pump the water).

Good old gravity and the siphon action will suffice.

NOTE, you will not be able to discharge into sinks because these are typically at the same height as the aquarium. Use the drains in your bathtub or shower stall instead since these are at floor level.

Tim

[Scribbles]

This is what I use with my bathroom faucet. Bought the adapter and hose fittling at Ace hardware. I hook a cheap garden hose to my gravel vac for draining onto the front yard. HTH

Chris

http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Mydiscus/IMG_0242.jpg
http://i935.photobucket.com/albums/ad191/Mydiscus/IMG_0243.jpg

[David Rose]

Sorry to say that the sprayer faucet you have will not allow you to connect a Python or Marina siphon. Do you have laundry room connections or utility sink within 25/50 ft or so? They usually have the standard fitting needed. Note: Either requires about 6 inches of clearance if you will be using a bathroom sink.

I have the Marina and they break easily as well. I have a Safety siphon from Jehmco with powerhead on order given my low water pressure at the sink and it will save on water being wasted using just the Marina siphon. I only use my to drain, so using either the Python or Marina sink attachment is not needed, but depending on your set up you may need it.

http://www.jehmco.com/html/safety_si...ium_drain.html

[rickscics]

I have broken three of these cheap python units. The plastic they cast from is soft and only lasts a few months if you use it everyday. I would never buy another until they upgrade to better hardware. Not talking about the brass adapter. The whole unit needs to be brass not soft molded plastic. MY 3 Cents :)

[yim11]

Sorry to say that the sprayer faucet you have will not allow you to connect a Python or Marina siphon. Do you have laundry room connections or utility sink within 25/50 ft or so? They usually have the standard fitting needed. Note: Either requires about 6 inches of clearance if you will be using a bathroom sink.

I have the Marina and they break easily as well. I have a Safety siphon from Jehmco with powerhead on order given my low water pressure at the sink and it will save on water being wasted using just the Marina siphon. I only use my to drain, so using either the Python or Marina sink attachment is not needed, but depending on your set up you may need it.

http://www.jehmco.com/html/safety_si...ium_drain.html

That isn't the same type of product, so it wouldn't be a valid alternative or replacement. A python is used to remove detritus, any other wastes, old foods, etc. The Jehmco product only removes water.

HTHs,
-jim

[rickscics]

"Has anyone had any experience with either of these in comparison to the Python? I've just heard so many good things about the Python."

I was responding to Sharkbaits above question and offering my oppinion of the python.. I know what all the units do Yim.

[David Rose]

That isn't the same type of product, so it wouldn't be a valid alternative or replacement. A python is used to remove detritus, any other wastes, old foods, etc. The Jehmco product only removes water.

HTHs,
-jim


Jim, Not sure I agree. If you think about it, the current sink faucet isn't going to work and it doesn't sound like the bathroom sink will have enough clearance or perhaps even water pressure, so in my opinion the Safety siphon with power jet attached to the appropriate size vinyl hose purchased from Home Depot or Lowes will work to drain and ensure sufficient power. (Or the just the gravity version)

Granted it may need an adapter on the inlet end as well to attach a short piece of vinyl hose with gravel vac or home made PVC tube and with Chris's/Scibbles adapter on the other end to fill only the mission is accomplished. I wouldn't waste my money on a Python or Mariana again, but the needed parts could come from either or with a little creativity, you can use more durable items from HD or Lowes.

Sorry, I should filled in the blanks to be more clear. Suffice it to say, I hate the Python and Marina products given they break so easily every few months, so my suggestion is the way I'm going given I think it will be much more durable and address all the issues I have as well:

1. Durable parts to get the job done
2. Sufficent pressure to drain and vac
3. Little to no wasted water
4. Can be drained in sink or outside



Rickscics,

For what it's worth, I have three tanks set up and have used both the Python and the Marina. IME, both plastic parts break easily in a short period of time. Yes, you can buy replacement parts for $5-$30 a pop maybe less, so in the long run durability and less cost are a major consideration for me. You might want to check wiht Islesfan regarding experience with the Safety siphon. I must give him credit for suggesting it as an alternative.

http://www.forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=74145&highlight=safety+siphon


Best,

[yim11]

I hate the python as well, but it seems to have evolved to a 'necessary evil' in that there really isn't a better commercial solution for removing solid waste from the tank - trust me - I've been looking for a while now!

I've tried pumps with hose/pvc but the problem always ends up being keeping it primed.

Adding a hose to the end of the powerhead in the safety siphon setup definetly has potential, I'm going to try that.

I have no problem removing lots of water very fast from the tanks (as the Jehmo product does) I just can't find a better product than the python for removing solid waste.

Thanks,
-jim

PS - I've also broken most of the python parts and pieces over the years. Think I've replaced everything at least 3 times except the hose!

[David Rose]

I feel ya...LOL. I break mine over months not years though and it gets expensive. I'm about a step away from the low tech solution and just use my garden hose and rely on gravity. If I only had the patience to wait for the tank to drain :D

[jeff@zina.com]

For those using a Python (or similar), what are you doing to treat for Chlorine/Chloramines (or other treatments)? I use home-made vinyl siphons (a piece of threaded plastic tubing and a hose barb make for a rigid tip that is interchangeable depending on tank depth), but I'm seriously looking at aging barrels and a pump to refill tanks so I can treat the water first.

Thanks,

Jeff

[David Rose]

For those using a Python (or similar), what are you doing to treat for Chlorine/Chloramines (or other treatments)? I use home-made vinyl siphons (a piece of threaded plastic tubing and a hose barb make for a rigid tip that is interchangeable depending on tank depth), but I'm seriously looking at aging barrels and a pump to refill tanks so I can treat the water first.

Thanks,

Jeff


For what it's worth, I had a different thread regarding my aging barrel that I've upgraded since. Post #17 was my previoius set up and you can use a Python or garden hose to connect. I just got tired of moving the Python from the kitchen sink to drain and running down to the basement laundry room to connect the Python to the barrel, so I just bought a garden hose and left it attached to the barrel. It's a matter of preference.

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=73830

HTH,

[Ibanez540r]

I have a similar faucet (Moen) that pulls out, and if you look at the center of it where it looks like a normal faucet, it un screws and you can screw in an adapter that Python makes for sinks. Basically, it is the same as every other sink once you twist out the nipple. Maybe yours won't, dunno, but might want to check...

[scottishbloke]

I too have one of these faucets and for a LONG time I was using buckets...then I discovered recently that like Ibanez says, the "shower head" like attachment could simply be unscrewed!! Duh!!! I went to Home Depot, bought a 3/4" brass connector, attached 20 feet of 3/4" hose to it, screwed it into the faucet, and bam! now I can refill my 55g tank in about 5 minutes (make sure you add enough Prime/Aquasafe/whatever water conditioner to the tank BEFORE you add the correct temperature water). Being an inexperienced moron regarding plumbing matters, I did find out the hard way that you REALLY need one of those metal hose clamps (the kind with the screw to tighten it), as the high pressure inevitably causes even the tightest fitting hose to pop right off the connector after a short while, leading to 1) water spraying out the faucet end onto the floor, and 2) water back-siphoning from the tank through the detached hose onto your floor at the same time! To empty the tank, I've always just gravity siphoned the water out through the nearby back door, the poop-enriched water making my hydrangeas triple in size to boot even in a Georgia drought.
The above solution is what I use; other people will have different, and possibly much better setups than this, but this is what works for me, and I usually can't afford Pythons and all the attachments/replacement parts etc- it gets quite pricey. My setup cost around $20 total. Use what is best for your own needs.

My 2 cents,

Colin

[lkevin]

I suck the poo off of the bottom of my tank into a 5 gal bucket, pour that into the toilet, then plop a pond pump into my tank and pump water straight into the sink.

To refill, I have another powerhead sitting in my water reservoir that pumps straight into the tank.

Quick and easy, and with minimal lifting...

[Sharkbait]

These are all great tips guys. It's good to see what other people use and how you've gotten around the whole Python-esque 'monopoly.'

I still have no idea really of what parts I need to construct the hose - connectors, pumps, etc.

Perhaps a simple trip down to home depot will solve everything.

[David Rose]

[QUOTE=Sharkbait;575598]These are all great tips guys. It's good to see what other people use and how you've gotten around the whole Python-esque 'monopoly.'

I still have no idea really of what parts I need to construct the hose - connectors, pumps, etc.

It will depend on having a better sense of your goals. Here are few things that come to mind:

1) Do you want quick empty/fill (high tech) or gravity (low tech) options?
2) Where are you draining to and filling from?
3) What is the distance to/from in #2.
4) If using a pump, "head" may be an issue to factor in (head=total height that the water will need to be vertically pumped) and considering the your answer to #3
5) Do you want to have more durable solutions upfront that may cost a little more or do you want less expensive and buy replacement parts as needed?
6) Are you comfortable with some DIY factors in putting something together with our SD members and Home Depot techie's assistance or do you want something "out of the box"?
7) Is "hard plumbing" water to/from your tank(s) possible and or desired?
8) Side note questions: Have you tested your aged tap water parameters before/after 24/48hrs w/heat and aeration to determine your PH stability and need for conditioners? If so, what are the before/after results? Did the results indicate a need to age your water ongoing, compensate for chlorine and or chloramines, high alkalinity etc?

Perhaps others, can suggest things I may have missed, but knowing these answers will help us better advise.

BTW, it's great you're researching this topic and wanting to put a plan together. It's easy overlook something and end up not being happy with the results and maybe even wasting time and money in the process. Good luck!

HTH

[Sharkbait]

First of all, thanks for these questions. It makes it easier to understand what is really required so that I don't miss anything and have to end up getting something different later.

1) Do you want quick empty/fill (high tech) or gravity (low tech) options?

My main objective is to lessen the amount of time spent on maintenance. It's not that I don't enjoy sucking up and replacing water for at least an hour on a 90 gallon tank, but I also have to trim, scrape algae, sometimes do filter maintenance...all these things add up. There are times when I could be working 2-3 hours on my tank if I'm replanting..

2) Where are you draining to and filling from?

I currently drain the water into a 20 gallon bucket, whereupon I take a 5 gallon bucket and get the water out from the 20 gallon so that I don't drag the 20 gallon across the hardwood floor to the kitchen sink. Not the best setup, I know.

I then refill in the 5 gallon buckets at my kitchen sink and transfer those to the tank.

3) What is the distance to/from in #2.

Less than 25 feet.

4) If using a pump, "head" may be an issue to factor in (head=total height that the water will need to be vertically pumped) and considering the your answer to #3

The tank is pretty much on the same level as the sink. I don't think head would be much of an issue.

5) Do you want to have more durable solutions upfront that may cost a little more or do you want less expensive and buy replacement parts as needed?

Personally, I'd rather not have to buy replacements since the LFS doesn't have a lot of good plumbing solutions. Plus, I kinda live out in the boonies and wouldn't like to make frequent trips.

6) Are you comfortable with some DIY factors in putting something together with our SD members and Home Depot techie's assistance or do you want something "out of the box"?

I'm always up for learning new things. So if there's a way to do things easier, I'm all ears. I just need a little direction :) I had to put together a C02 setup and ...to be honest...I'm not that handy. But, I put all that plumbing together...(reactor, T bar) at the cost of a few nights of no sleep from my fiance and I because we didn't know if the connections would suddenly burst. Worst fear ever. lol.

7) Is "hard plumbing" water to/from your tank(s) possible and or desired?

I'm renting. I'd rather have something that I can move when I move.

8) Side note questions: Have you tested your aged tap water parameters before/after 24/48hrs w/heat and aeration to determine your PH stability and need for conditioners? If so, what are the before/after results? Did the results indicate a need to age your water ongoing, compensate for chlorine and or chloramines, high alkalinity etc?

PH out of the tap is 7.0 and is still 7.0 after 24 hours. I add prime to my tank before adding the new water and everything has been good thus far. CO2 is in my tank that keeps my PH stable.


Now, hopefully when I move, which won't be for a while (but will happen eventually) I won't have to change much of the setup.

Thanks again for all your help. Not sure what the result would be for the final equipment. Possibly one of the pythons with a stronger connector? I gotta check to make sure my kitchen faucet can be unscrewed like one of the other members pointed out.

[David Rose]

You're welcome... the questions and your answers will help. It's amazing how many different ideas and creative folks can be on SD gained from their own personal experience.

If your sink faucet will work to fill your tanks, I would start with getting a Marina over the Python. It comes with a brass adapter and IME, the Marina has better seals at the sink siphon attachment.

Faucet adapter, bottom right piece pictured:
http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Marina.gif

The parts that tend to ware quickest can be the middle piece to the right, which attaches to the faucet adapter. I think this is what one of the other members was talking about. Mine cracked as well and needed to be replaced, which I think can be caused by tightening them with tools to ensure no leaking. I've also cracked the vaccum tube and needed to replace it.

Again, the above will work to fill your tank, if your faucet is compatible.

To drain your tank quickly, which can be added later if needed. I would purchase an inexpensive power head pump similar to the one here for $28. The two requirements would be to have sufficient gph such as the Maxi-jet 1200 at 295gph or better if you wish and to make sure it has included the "Barb" (ribbed) connector that your vinyl tubing with vac attachment will slide over for intake. I think the barb fitting is pretty much standard to be incldued. Not pictured is an undergravel filter adapter that attaches to the barbed fitting that will block large pieces from going through the pump. You'll take the other longer piece of your Marina to slide over the Outlet at power head rather than attach the pictured flow deflector.

http://i885.photobucket.com/albums/ac51/dlr1961_photos/Powerhead.jpg

You may be happy for awhile (like me) with just using the Marina given it's much faster than buckets, but there is always faster. :D LOL

Let me know if you have any questions.

HTH

[goraman]

I typed a post and it did't get through so I am going to link to an adapter that works on all the switchable sprayer faucets.
In the link I carefully go over everything.

Seems I can't post a link yet but Aquion makes a solid brass or even a plastic adapter that will fit in the deep well of the spray heads after you remove the aerator.
fishtankkeppers.com has the review in freshwater section under equipment.

I looked at a good number of adapters and found the Marina to have really thick tubing that doesn't collapse and it would seem the older Pythons had thick tubing too but not having owned one I only saw a brand new one and the tubing seems about the same as the Aquion.
The Hagan/ Marina is built very well but the threaded stem on there solid brass adapter is way to short to reach the first thread on facets with a deeply recessed aerator. I have contacted Hagan and they are working on that. But the easy fix is the Aquion adapter for now.

[Dubiadiscus]

I must say I have had my python for over 25 years and I have never had a problem with it. I can tell you though i have had to just recently get a new adapter for the sink because my old one finally called it quites. I do Like the idea of running a hose out the door instead of wasteing water to suck water from the tank. I does had the idea of doing it the old fashion way but it works.

[goraman]

Best water changer adapter ever. The Aquion brass faucet adapter far better than the plastic one,this will last a life time.

[wiliamjake]

faucets have changed dramatically since the onset of the new no-lead laws.
lots of plastic parts in them now.
i don't know 15-20 years from now how they will all hold up.
taking the lead out of plumbing now means we will live forever but our faucets will not.
buy a delta and forgetaboutit.

[Willie]

Different strokes for different folks.

My syphon hoses get used daily for 1.5 hours so they get a lot of work. The Python brand beats the Aqueon brand hands down based on flexibility and durability. Aqueon hoses and other brands get brittle, while the Python material stays soft and flexible. I look for used Pythons at fish auctions but they seldom come up for sale.

I don't use my faucet connection to start the suction because I have a floor drain. Just raising the front end 4 - 5" is sufficient to get a flow going, so I defer to those people complaining about the connection.

Whatever you end up deciding, here's a way to reduce your water change time in half...



Get two, Willie