Strange Behaviour

[akumastew]

I fed my Discus some Frozen Brine Shrimp.

Which they appear to enjoy.

One of the Discus was off to the side chasing some floating shrimp.

After he bit it, he went nuts.

Swiming upside down, jumping out of the water and hitting the glass, and then he ended up sitting near the surface at an odd angle.

I switched off the lights for 20 mins. When I switched them back on I could see white stuff on his skin. Would this be his slime coat?

After a little while longer he swam back to the group, and is acting normally.

Is this common behaviour, or does it show signs of underlying problems?

I tested the water conditions, and it is all normal.

[Eddie]

Strange....is the white stuff possibly skin from scratching itself onto something? How are the others?

Eddie

[rickztahone]

the fish might have gotten scared if you were in front of the tank. sometimes happens, it could possibly have led to it losing some slime coat. keep observing that fish as well as the others

[cosmodude12]

maybe she was way to ecstatic eating brine shrimp... like a bimbo during crowning...:D:

[mmorris]

It's probably nothing but water quality may play a role. What are your water stats? ammonia, nitrite and nitrate. What is your water change regime? If there is a problem it would be nice to catch it early. Probably just spooked it though.

[akumastew]

Tank 125 gallon

Stocking Level:

5 Discus 3-4.5"
2 GBR
2 Apistogrammas Cauc-something
5 Corydoras Schwarzi
5 1" BNP

Water Parameters:

Ammonia 0ppm
Nitrite 0ppm
Nitrate <12.5ppm (lowest level my test kit does) But Petco told me it was <5ppm.

pH 7.5
gH 4
KH 7

25% W/C every other day, unless I see toxin levels rise.

The fish are eating normally, normal poop. Other than this one instance, the fish seem fine. They do breath a little quicker than I would like. But a friend said they were breathing at a normalrate.

I can not see any slime on any of them normally.

After the few seconds I could see it, it seemed to disappear. Possibly due to the Discus color changing?

I was sitting about 10ft away from the tank, which they normally do not react to my presence at that distance.

Another question:

How long should I expect to wait until they are comfortable with me being near the tank?

They do sometimes come up to me for feeding time.

[mmorris]

From what you've said your water seems fine. You have five small discus in a very big tank. Six is, IMO, the minimum that should be kept but others will say five is OK. Still, they will often feel insecure in such a large tank. The other fish won't provide them with much security. You didn't say how long you have had them. Is it a planted tank? They tend to take longer to adjust if there is anything to hide behind. Is there something for them to have scratched themselves on? This might explain the `white stuff.' I recommend you buy a few more but quarantine them separately, of course.

[Jhhnn]

My scorps will sometimes spook, bolt suddenly, particularly at feeding time. They'll move so fast that the eye can't follow, at least in the initial movement. It's like some sort of panic reaction.

When that happens, they're oblivious, hitting the side or even the top of the tank and anything else that's in the way. One of them, now named "Bash", has cut herself rather badly a couple of times on the tank rim, and has hit the glass so hard that she exhibited the sort of behavior you describe for several minutes afterward. I thought she'd killed herself.

There's nothing in the tank other than sponge filters, heaters, and some carefully rounded off tube ends, but they still find a way to get scraped up. They're like toddlers- can't let 'em have anything sharp...

I make a point of having them eat out of my hand, which seems to help keep them tamer, and adding a little salt to their water also has a calming effect, I think. Denver water has very low salinity because we're at the top of the watershed. I've discovered that my maroon bathrobe freaks them out, honest, so I get dressed before I feed the fish in the morning...

You knew they'd have personality, right? Sometimes that includes just being downright weird and goofy...

[akumastew]

From what you've said your water seems fine. You have five small discus in a very big tank. Six is, IMO, the minimum that should be kept but others will say five is OK. Still, they will often feel insecure in such a large tank. The other fish won't provide them with much security. You didn't say how long you have had them. Is it a planted tank? They tend to take longer to adjust if there is anything to hide behind. Is there something for them to have scratched themselves on? This might explain the `white stuff.' I recommend you buy a few more but quarantine them separately, of course.

You can see my tank set up in the pictures in my album.

There are a few pieces of driftwood, and some plastic plants.

I have a 6th Discus in QT tank, which I will transfer in due time.

They do hide a reasonable amount, sometimes they come out when I am there for feeding, sometimes they come out after I put the food in and back away from the tank.

I have another question...

my wife's twin lives on our basement, and she uses a lot of cosmetic products. In fact, I can smell said products from the 3rd floor of my house. Could these products get in to the water in my tank? And if so, could they cause harm to the fish?

[scottthomas]

I bet they just got spooked. Some tend to get spooked easily when they are trying to feed at the top of the water. They are often very wary about taking food off of the surface, preferring to eat off the bottom or mid level. Probably then banged into the glass and consequently has white scratch.

[mmorris]

You can see my tank set up in the pictures in my album.

There are a few pieces of driftwood, and some plastic plants.

I have a 6th Discus in QT tank, which I will transfer in due time.

They do hide a reasonable amount, sometimes they come out when I am there for feeding, sometimes they come out after I put the food in and back away from the tank.

I have another question...

my wife's twin lives on our basement, and she uses a lot of cosmetic products. In fact, I can smell said products from the 3rd floor of my house. Could these products get in to the water in my tank? And if so, could they cause harm to the fish?

Very nice tank. :) How long have you had them? I couldn't say about the cosmetics. Can't be good, but I don't know if they're bad. I know what they'd do to me. :(

[akumastew]

Very nice tank. :) How long have you had them? I couldn't say about the cosmetics. Can't be good, but I don't know if they're bad. I know what they'd do to me. :(

I have had the Discus for 2 weeks.

My wife is to thank for the aquascaping part. I wanted to go BB, but she said "If I was having a large tank where guests might see it, it has too look like a "proper" fish tank" ;)

Thankfully the sis-in-law has just put in an offer on a house, so my basement will become a cosmetic free zone.

A similar thing just happened a few minutes ago, during feeding; but this time it was caused by one of other Discus nipping one that was eating.

[mmorris]

If all you are feeding is frozen brine shrimp I highly recommend you feed them other foods as well. I've heard that bs is great for roughage but doesn't have a lot of nutritional value. If they're eating they're probably still settling in, which I would expect it to take longer given the small number of discus, the size of the tank and the places to hide. What temperature do you have the tank at? If it is less than 84 I recommend turning it up a bit.

[akumastew]

If all you are feeding is frozen brine shrimp I highly recommend you feed them other foods as well. I've heard that bs is great for roughage but doesn't have a lot of nutritional value. If they're eating they're probably still settling in, which I would expect it to take longer given the small number of discus, the size of the tank and the places to hide. What temperature do you have the tank at? If it is less than 84 I recommend turning it up a bit.

Temp: 84.5F

I also feed Tetra bits. This was their only food from the store I purchased them from.

I plan on picking up a selection of other frozen foods. Just awaiting approval from the finance minister.

I did notice that there are two individual fish that seem to do this strange behaviour. Both of them did it this morning after feeding. They do have some scratches on their sides from banging against stuff. Should I be concenred about these scrathes becoming infected by anything?

I also noticed, when my sis-in-law approaches the tank; they Discus show no fear of her. Maybe they like her smell. ;)

They are spending more time out swimming, and less time hiding. I would say a 50% split at the moment. So that is an improvement. And they all do come out for feeding time, as long as I back away from the tank.

I have decided to increase water changes to 25% every day, incase there is something that I am not testing for that is in the water.

If there was too much bacteria in the water, would they use up more oxygen, and oxygen starvation could cause the erratic behaviour?

[mmorris]

If there was too much bacteria in the water, would they use up more oxygen, and oxygen starvation could cause the erratic behaviour?

I wouldn't think so but I could be wrong. What are you using for filtration?

[akumastew]

I wouldn't think so but I could be wrong. What are you using for filtration?

I have:

Eheim 2180 Pro III Thermo canister filter.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=14672

One Penguin 660 Powerhead with Sponge attachment.

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4628

My wife just gave me my lunch time update.

One of the fish did the same thing at the lunch time feeding. He lay on his side on the tank bottom; and then got stuck in the bubbles from the airstones at the back of my tank.

She says he looks normal one minute, then looks odd the next.

- Stew

[mmorris]

Did he look fine the minute after? Could he have been going after food? If they are eating fine, I don't see an issue. Is it possible you're getting used to their behavior (or trying to :D)? If they are eating fine, I would just observe. Have you seen them actually scratch against things?

[akumastew]

Did he look fine the minute after? Could he have been going after food? If they are eating fine, I don't see an issue. Is it possible you're getting used to their behavior (or trying to :D)? If they are eating fine, I would just observe. Have you seen them actually scratch against things?

He seems to go from fine to bad, then back to fine.

He does have a few scrathces and nicks you can see.

They are all eating fine, and poop looks normal.

It is possible that I am gettign used to their behaviour. But I did keep Discus back in Scotland and never experienced anything like this.

[mmorris]

Aggravating, I know. Resist the urge to medicate unless things change for the worse. Hopefully all will be well. :)

[akumastew]

Update:

I got home this afternoon.

He was in bad shape.

He had hurt one eye on something.

He has a lot more scratches on his side.

His tummy looks a little bloated.

And now he can not maintain himself in an upwards position.

He was lying on his side.

I moved him to the hospital tank, with matched water conditions.

Currently he is moving around the bottom of the hospital tank on his side.

The filtration is far less in there, so at least he isn't being pushed around by the current.

- Stewart

[akumastew]

The poor Disucs was dead this morning. :(

The rest of the Discus in the main tank are all out and about, so that is good. :)

[smiley]

sad to hear the loss...

[mmorris]

I'm really sorry to hear. I'm sorry I couldn't do more.

[akumastew]

I'm really sorry to hear. I'm sorry I couldn't do more.

No need to apologize. Your input was much appreciated.

The rest of the fish appear fine.

I decided to increase the water changes to 25% daily.

I turned back the output from my Eheim Canister to 66%, and the fish are out and about much more. I still think they are getting used to the increased current.

Hopefully, I don't have any more issues.

- Stew

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

My scorps will sometimes spook, bolt suddenly, particularly at feeding time. They'll move so fast that the eye can't follow, at least in the initial movement. It's like some sort of panic reaction.

When that happens, they're oblivious, hitting the side or even the top of the tank and anything else that's in the way. One of them, now named "Bash", has cut herself rather badly a couple of times on the tank rim, and has hit the glass so hard that she exhibited the sort of behavior you describe for several minutes afterward. I thought she'd killed herself.

There's nothing in the tank other than sponge filters, heaters, and some carefully rounded off tube ends, but they still find a way to get scraped up. They're like toddlers- can't let 'em have anything sharp...

I make a point of having them eat out of my hand, which seems to help keep them tamer, and adding a little salt to their water also has a calming effect, I think. Denver water has very low salinity because we're at the top of the watershed. I've discovered that my maroon bathrobe freaks them out, honest, so I get dressed before I feed the fish in the morning...

You knew they'd have personality, right? Sometimes that includes just being downright weird and goofy...

iv had a fish or 2 bug out the same way. just dart all over and SMACK right into the tank wall face first...so fast the eye couldnt follow. and I HEARD him hit....CRACK! I thought that fish killed itself too, or made itself braindead...but after sitting on the bottom of the tank half retarded and stressed for a few min, he was swimmin around normally after that. everything is fine. sometimes they dart around and F themselves up for a few. aslong as it snaps out of it within a few min, I think its ok.

[akumastew]

Today my wife calls me at lunch time to tell all the Discus are out enjoying their lunch.

I get home at 4pm, and I am greeted to a 2nd dead Discus. No marks on the body. Gill plates look clean, No bloating of belly. No marks on the fins. It was eating and pooping normally.

This one had spent a little of last night swimming in circles.

But was still mostly swimming normally.

Now, my smallest Discus is showing some odd signs.

I took my water to two LFS.

Both came back with zero for Ammonia, Nitrite, <5ppm Nitrate, ph 6.8-7.0.

I thought maybe leaching of chemicals from my 25 gallon rubbermaid, so I have bought one of the rubbermaid recommended in the water works section.

I also am still wondering about the possibility of poisoning from identical-twin-in-laws cosmetics. Although I am not sure how I can stop this until she moves out.

Thoughts?

Maybe I should have posted this in disease or water works section.

[mmorris]

What a shame! I recommend you post in the disease section and hopefully experts will post their thoughts. It's hard to imagine cosmetics could be the killer. Get some pics up as well. Good luck.