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discusjoe27
10-13-2009, 04:45 PM
how long does it take for a sponge filter to seed, with the bactrica in it?

fishkeeper59
10-13-2009, 06:45 PM
IME, depending on what your using to cycle your tank, normally 2 to 3 weeks

Elite Aquaria
10-13-2009, 06:48 PM
Using pure ammonia it takes about 4-5 weeks..

discusjoe27
10-14-2009, 02:18 AM
IME, depending on what your using to cycle your tank, normally 2 to 3 weeks

http://www.tzong-yang.com.tw is the website, oista photo synthetic bacteria.
got it from a mom and pop aquarium store.


Using pure ammonia it takes about 4-5 weeks.. pure ammonia, what store can I Find that at?

tank is a 75 gallon with a hagen elite double sponge filter. I've got one more encase I need it, but don't have the suction cups for it.

Elite Aquaria
10-14-2009, 07:11 AM
http://www.tzong-yang.com.tw is the website, oista photo synthetic bacteria.
got it from a mom and pop aquarium store.

pure ammonia, what store can I Find that at?

tank is a 75 gallon with a hagen elite double sponge filter. I've got one more encase I need it, but don't have the suction cups for it.

You can find it at ACE Hardware...Here a picture of the one that I use...If you end up buying it somewhere else make sure it does not have any surfactants...

http://i664.photobucket.com/albums/vv10/eliteaquaria/m_002-3.jpg

jeff@zina.com
10-14-2009, 05:13 PM
how long does it take for a sponge filter to seed, with the bactrica in it?

Generally, 4-6 weeks. Hasten the cycle by adding some gravel, plants or other filter media from an existing tank.

Jeff

Elite Aquaria
10-14-2009, 05:51 PM
Generally, 4-6 weeks. Hasten the cycle by adding some gravel, plants or other filter media from an existing tank.

Jeff

Jeff,

Good point here but the one thing to consider is that you will also be adding the potential for undesirable bacterias also...

Eddie
10-14-2009, 06:01 PM
Jeff,

Good point here but the one thing to consider is that you will also be adding the potential for undesirable bacterias also...

I second that, you bring along extra baggage when using anything from another tank, especially media, plants or gravel.

Eddie

jrodriguez
10-14-2009, 06:12 PM
hey Dan, How much of the pure ammonia do you in per 10 gal.

discusjoe27
10-14-2009, 06:16 PM
it has to be the test kit, but it's showing
ammonia- o
nitrite- 0
nitrate-5
ph 7.4
this is using a api test kit.

Jhhnn
10-14-2009, 09:59 PM
What you're doing is adding another sponge filter to an existing tank, right? If so, siphon off ~1gal of tank water into a clean bucket. Squeeze out your established sponge in that water, in&out several times, then put you new sponge in, squeeze it in&out, put both in the tank...

I have trouble seeing the value in establishing new bacterial colonies in new tanks using ammonia if you already have healthy tanks. Thinking about it, the bacteria and algae that will colonize the new filter aren't spontaneously generated- they come from the air, and likely got into the air from the other tanks in the home...

Larger parasites, like flukes, can't travel thru the air but it's been demonstrated that some protozoans have that ability, too...

Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

seanyuki
10-14-2009, 11:54 PM
Imo I just start with everything brand new.....unseeded sponge filter,heaters etc. with 80% water change daily for the first two weeks.
You can have the tank running and put in discus and try to feed slowly for the first 2 weeks ...gradually reaching to normal feeding rate or the rate you prefer. By then, the biological filtration will be establishes and working effectively bi itself.

If you were to use a filter media or any equipment from another tank or another culture, you might just accidently innoculate disease from the other fishes to your further discus and that disease may not be harmful to the existing because the fishes there already got the immune but introducing it to the new discus might just make the discus sick if not mortality.

David Rose
10-15-2009, 07:21 AM
Is starting new the same recommendation when you are setting up a breeding tank because you have a pair starting the active spawing process or can you use media from the parent tank to seed your sponges?

I would think this would be possible given contamination or transfer already exist with the moving of the parents?

Eddie
10-15-2009, 07:36 AM
What you're doing is adding another sponge filter to an existing tank, right? If so, siphon off ~1gal of tank water into a clean bucket. Squeeze out your established sponge in that water, in&out several times, then put you new sponge in, squeeze it in&out, put both in the tank...

I have trouble seeing the value in establishing new bacterial colonies in new tanks using ammonia if you already have healthy tanks. Thinking about it, the bacteria and algae that will colonize the new filter aren't spontaneously generated- they come from the air, and likely got into the air from the other tanks in the home...

Larger parasites, like flukes, can't travel thru the air but it's been demonstrated that some protozoans have that ability, too...

Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

And a healthy established tank for one group of fish can be a death bed for another. If cycling a filter for already existing fish, then yes there may not be any issues. Also, fluke eggs can be in the filter, the media, the gravel or wherever, only to hatch and create the cycle all over in the new tank. Best to be safe than sorry, sometimes people need to get bit before they understand.

Eddie

jeff@zina.com
10-15-2009, 08:45 AM
If you're doing massive water changes you'll delay the cycle or it will never happen. You remove the ammonia before the bacteria develops. On the other hand, it's fish ready from day one.

Jeff

discusjoe27
10-15-2009, 11:04 AM
the sponge filters are brand new out of the package. I'll test again, maybe I have a test kit that is to old,giving me faults readings.

tcyiu
11-03-2009, 08:54 PM
Imo I just start with everything brand new.....unseeded sponge filter,heaters etc. with 80% water change daily for the first two weeks.

Francis, Just a suggestion, you might want to not change water for the first few weeks. The idea is to let the nitrogen compounds build up so that a colony of bacteria can get established If you keep changing water from day 1, the nitrite eating bacteria will never have a chance to eat.

BTW, has anyone thought about the fact that fishless cycling can lead to creation of mono-culture bio filters?? In other words, a normal cycle involves lots of different organic gunk. Many species of bacteria grow to eat up this stuff. In a fishless cycle, there is only one "food" source, pure ammonia. It would seem that whatever bio-filter gets developed is rather brittle.

Tim

Peachtree Discus
11-03-2009, 09:56 PM
i fully understand the point about bad bacteria, flukes, etc...but still , i've had spawn after spawn in the same tank at points in time....i am not worried about the bad critters.....knock on wood ;)

soooo.....if i can add on to this question - how long does it take to cycle a sponge if i just submerge them into an established tank and let them cycle "naturally"?

Darrell Ward
11-04-2009, 01:10 AM
What you're doing is adding another sponge filter to an existing tank, right? If so, siphon off ~1gal of tank water into a clean bucket. Squeeze out your established sponge in that water, in&out several times, then put you new sponge in, squeeze it in&out, put both in the tank..

I have trouble seeing the value in establishing new bacterial colonies in new tanks using ammonia if you already have healthy tanks. Thinking about it, the bacteria and algae that will colonize the new filter aren't spontaneously generated- they come from the air, and likely got into the air from the other tanks in the home...

Larger parasites, like flukes, can't travel thru the air but it's been demonstrated that some protozoans have that ability, too...

Just my opinion, for what it's worth...

I agree. I've been seeding sponge filters in the sumps of my larger tanks for years without problems. When I set up a tank from the garage, I have sponge filters in the sump ready to take out and use in the new tank. If your tanks are healthy, there won't be a problem. I usually set up a tank every time I get new fish using this method. Who has time to cycle a tank with new fish arriving Fed EX overnight? :D

discusjoe27
11-04-2009, 06:06 PM
update, the tank is doing good, 5 2.5-3 inch snowwhite x leapord x snake skins, with 1 4.0-4.5 inch pigeon blood, and a 4.0-4.5 inch turq, it might even be a wild brown. got to go do a water change, and siphon food before I take photos.
might add some driftwood too.