New to Discus need Urgent Help!

[Fefe]

Hello all,
This is Rafaqat from Pakistan.
I wouldn’t say I am new to discus as I had them about 5-6 years ago but only for few months. But I really don’t know anything about these gorgeous fish
In past I had tank about 7 feet long for discus, kept them for about 2 three months and they breaded in that tank.
Anyways now I have tank size 3X1.5X2.5 Feet only have gravel. This tank was used for goldfish big ones they all died. The tank is running since last 4 years. I bought 4 Huge 6” discus and 1 3” Juvenile.
They are extremely stressed and have changed to dark black. I have put 15 leaves of Indian wild almond, the water all turned brown now.
What should I do?
Please note no testing kits available here in Pakistan. The only kit I have is Ph tester and PH of tank water is 8.
I think the Juvenile is near to death.
Please guide me.
Thanks in Advance
Love
Rafaqat

[Fefe]

Indian wild almond =Terminalia catappa
Peatmoss is not available here!

[Eddie]

Sorry to hear the discus are not doing too swell. If you dont mind me asking, how did the goldfish die? If it was from disease, maybe its affecting your discus?

How do you treat your water for the fish?

Eddie

[nichaqui]

I think ph8 is rather high for discus. My ph is 6.7. Maybe reducing your ph would diminish their stress considerably.

[mmorris]

Hello all,
This is Rafaqat from Pakistan.
I wouldn’t say I am new to discus as I had them about 5-6 years ago but only for few months. But I really don’t know anything about these gorgeous fish
In past I had tank about 7 feet long for discus, kept them for about 2 three months and they breaded in that tank.
Anyways now I have tank size 3X1.5X2.5 Feet only have gravel. This tank was used for goldfish big ones they all died. The tank is running since last 4 years. I bought 4 Huge 6” discus and 1 3” Juvenile.
They are extremely stressed and have changed to dark black. I have put 15 leaves of Indian wild almond, the water all turned brown now.
What should I do?
Please note no testing kits available here in Pakistan. The only kit I have is Ph tester and PH of tank water is 8.
I think the Juvenile is near to death.
Please guide me.
Thanks in Advance
Love
Rafaqat

I'm sorry to hear you are having troubles, Rafaqat. It may help if you can answer some questions. What temperature is the tank at? How long ago did the goldfish die? Are there other fish in the tank? Is the tank cycled? What is your water change regime? Do you add something to the water for chlorine? I wouldn't mess with the ph right now. I recommend a large water change with water treated for chlorine and at the same temperature as the tank water to start with.

[tcyiu]

IN addition to Eddie's questions, here are a few more:

- what temperature is the water (goldfish typically live in MUCH colder water than discus)?
- did you clean out the gravel before the discus were placed in? Since goldfish are very dirty and the gravel traps a lot of dirt, this may be an issue
- What filters are you running? What is the condition of the bacteria in the filter media? (i.e. if you sanitized the tank because of disease, did you give the bacteria a chance to regrow? Or is the filter exactly as is from when the goldfish were alive?)
- Is the little guy being harassed by the bigger fish. It may be very stressed because it is so much smaller.
- How often do you change water and how much? Does your tap water contain contaminants like chlorine? Do you treat the tap water in any way?

In the meanwhile, a few suggestions:
- add 1/2 teaspoon of salt (without iodine) per 10 gallons of water. This will help de-stress the fish, and in case there is nitrite in the water (from insufficient biological filtering), it will help reduce the toxicity.
- Cover the tank to reduce the lighting and hide the outside movement.
- Maintain water temperature in the mid to high 80s. I don't recommend going too high in case there is a bacterial infection, in which case you will cause more harm than good.

Good luck. If you can answer these questions, we can offer better suggestions.

Tim

P.S. Wow. It seems that I'm posting just a step behind Martha. :-)

[mmorris]

Great minds think alike. :)

[tcyiu]

Yes. And it feels like Discus Jeopardy.

Hit that Enter button! Hit that Enter button! Hit that Enter button!

LOL

Tim

[Fefe]

Thank you for all your input, Goldfish died about 5-6 (Dropsy) months ago. The tank was empty all this times all filtration running I have 1000 liter per hour external filter and 900 liter per hour overhead filter. The temperature is no problem because we have about in summers we have 36 C and now a days its about 33 C I have automatic heater which I adjusted to 34C (sorry don’t know in F). Told you no testing kits available so cant tell you other parameters. When I previously had discus fish some one from Australia told me to have Indian wild almond if peat moss is not available.
Last night I changed about quarter of water and tonight or tomorrow will change about half of water. I can add salt no problem.

- Did you clean out the gravel before the discus were placed in? Since goldfish are very dirty and the gravel traps a lot of dirt, this may be an issue
- Yes
- What filters are you running? What is the condition of the bacteria in the filter media? (i.e. if you sanitized the tank because of disease, did you give the bacteria a chance to regrow? Or is the filter exactly as is from when the goldfish were alive?)
- No I have not cleaned the filter both filters. As I thought it will brake the cycle.
-
- Is the little guy being harassed by the bigger fish. It may be very stressed because it is so much smaller.
- NO, they all r stressed and turned very dark.
-
- How often do you change water and how much? Does your tap water contain contaminants like chlorine? Do you treat the tap water in any way?
No- the tap water if contain chlorine, we store the water in underground tank2-3 days so when the water comes in taps the chlorine evaporates.
-
In my opinion they are loosing their slime coat.
-

[Eddie]

Can you get a water conditioner that will neutralize heavy metals and instantly remove any amount chlorine/chloramine?

If your fish are losing their slimecoat, its an external irritant from either water or infection.

Also, is it a discus only tank?

Eddie

[Fefe]

i have a very small ( Babby<fry size>) goldfish in same tank.

[tcyiu]

... the tap water if contain chlorine, we store the water in underground tank2-3 days so when the water comes in taps the chlorine evaporates.
In my opinion they are loosing their slime coat.


Thanks for the detailed responses. I agree with Eddie that it sounds like there is something in the environment that is irritating and stressing the discus.

Your filtration and temperature sounds fine. So at this point, I would suspect the water source.

I am not at all familiar with how water is treated and distributed in Karachi. But there are some general principles that you should be aware of:

1. Chlorine and Chloramine are different chemicals and have VERY different properties. Both are strong irritants to discus (Gold fish on the other hand seem to not care?? My dad uses straight tap water with his gold fish to no ill effect).

2. Chlorine can be easily neutralized by bubbling the water for a day, by exposure to sun for several days, or by chemicals (see below). Storing it in a tank without physical agitation for several days may not be allow enough chlorine to dissipate.

3. Chloramine is neutralized by chemicals (which also neutralize chlorine). The cheapest way is to find a source of sodium thiosulphate. (Google it to find where you might be able to locate some in Pakistan and also the dosage amount. You will need very very little to neutralize chloramine). You might be able to buy de-chlorinators at pet stores which is the easier way to go.

4. Once the chloramine is neutralized, your filters will need to deal with the resulting ammonia. If you have a good biofilter, this will typically not be an issue.

I hope the salt helped.

Good luck.

Tim

[rickztahone]

i don't suspect the water source. i think it has to do with the goldfish disease that broke out before. i'm assuming they picked up anything that the goldfish died from. the goldfish you have in there now might die soon.

[mmorris]

Goldfish died about 5-6 (Dropsy) months ago. The tank was empty all this times all filtration running -

You said the tank was empty and then you said there is one goldfish in it. My guess is that the tank is not cycled. The bacteria needed for the nitrogen cycle would have all died off without food for them. If there is only one goldfish in the tank, then your tank would still have to cycle to accomodate the increased fish load when you added discus.
1) How much and how often were you changing the water (before yesterday)?
2) Have any part of the fins/tail turned white?
3) How long have you had these discus?
4) Are they scratching on things?
It is possible, as well, that the goldfish passed on something to the discus.

[Fefe]

The small goldfish was given to my daughter as birthday home back gift add that small fish about 2 months ago he was doing very fine. I removed him yesterday from tank. Also cleaned the gravel and changed about 20% water second day the discus arrived, yesterday changed about 80 % water. Have not touched the filter yet. The small discuss that I bought died last evening. She had sort of bruses on one side.
All the other big discs are opening and closing their mouth like they are stressed.

1) How much and how often were you changing the water (before yesterday)?
When there was no fish I was not changing any water!
2) Have any part of the fins/tail turned white?
Nopes, but some parts are torned . that is because of shipment I guess.
3) How long have you had these discus?
1 week today, they have not eaten since.
4) Are they scratching on things?
No they are not.

[mmorris]

I'm sorry to hear your little one died. It's difficult to say, but I would guess first that the filter hadn't caught up to the increased bio-load. It sounds like you went a week without much of a wc and so I would expect you are registering ammonia. I recommend massive daily wc's for a few days and see if that helps, adding salt to replace what you removed. It is worrying that you say they are losing their slime coat. Can you post a pic?

[Fefe]

i coverd the tank front with cloth..so they dont get disturb!

[Fefe]

two of my fish looks 100% like this

[tcyiu]

Have you found out anything about the water source? i.e. is there any chlorine or chloramine? In my opinion, the source water is suspect.

Your picture is helpful. The slime coming off is very similar what happened to my discus a couple of days ago.

Here's what happened. After a normal water change, I topped off my tank with water straight from the tap. I never do this. Water always goes through treatment before going into the tank. But I got lazy. This was a BIG mistake. The discus got dark and started sloughing off slime coat like your picture. Eventually (approx 10 minutes), the de-chlorinator in the water neutralized the chloramine, and the discus were back to normal.

This showed me how even a little chloramine can cause stress to discus.

Tim

[Letigrama]

Fefe:

The pic does not show much except it looks like some injuries. How did the fish arrive from shipment? I understand that fish that are ship are much more stressed than if you just buy them at the store. Fish could have gotten injured in transit.
For now what you need to do is 25% wc everyday
add salt with every wc ( depending how much water new water you are adding)
dim the lights
raise the temp. to 90 F ( formula So if you have 100 °F
(100 - 32) / 1.8 = 37.778 °C )
Clean your filters if you havent yet,
Put some slime coat or stress out or some product like that.
If you havent gotten a water conditioner, get it. ( aging the water is not sufficient, and not certain, YOU NEED A WATER CONDITIONER, NOW) :)

For the info you told us, we cant really determine any disease yet.
The fish get dark when they are stressed or/and sick.

Next time you get Discus you have to make sure the water is cycled and you have all the elements needed to keep them healthy.

Good luck, and please let us know if any signs of disease appears.

Ps whatever you cant get in your country, get it online ( ebay, etc).