MY FIRST DISCUS !!!!!!!!

[nichaqui]

I have just acquired a pair of rose red discus (supposedly a breeding pair). This is their second day. They are around 15cm and 1 of them is doing really well regarding colouration and apetite already whilst the other is very dark and in the top corner just staring.

Their ph is 6.7 and gh is 4.

Any tips will be very much appreciated because i do not wanna lose any of them this quickly :S

[philip69285]

More then likely the one is sick. But it could also be very stressed. A little more info about that one discus would be very helpful. But congrats on your first discus.. I remember mine :).

[nichaqui]

Well they seemed ok yesterday, tehy are beautiful looking fish and the "sick or stressed" fish has no wounds whatsoever apart from some little whitish lines which appear every now and again. More importantly, it is dashing from one end to another very frequently.
The ph is quite good for them i heard although i am a little worried about the NO2 and NO3. Should i clean the sponge filter or do a water change?

[nichaqui]

I just realised they have no sort of air stone. I am installing it as i post !!!!

[philip69285]

The white line is the discus's lateral line system... nothing to worry about it appears on every strain in different colors :). Very facinating how it works really :). Air stone probably isn't the problem. Is there any excess slime coming off the one dark fish? It will normally be a greyish white color. A water change wouldnt hurt them but I wouldnt do anything major as its probably stress... but good quality fish bounce back from any stress (moving or shipping) in a few days. Give it time to adjust to its new home... approach its tank slowly as its probably darting back and forth when you come up to the tank. I would say if it doesnt get better in a day or 2 you might have a problem.

[nichaqui]

Ok i guess ill just give them a couple of days to settle. regarding the slime, i can see nothing of the sort. One question though, shall i put lights on for them or just leave them in complete darkness until they come to terms with their new home?
They are in a 55 litre tank. Air stone is now up and running and the sponge filter is relatively new. Their photos will be posted shortly and thanks so very much for your help

[mmorris]

i am a little worried about the NO2 and NO3.

Why are you worried? Is the tank cycled? If not, I recommend a very large water change with water treated for chlorine and heated to the same temp as the tank water.

[rickztahone]

i was going to ask the same question. Was this tank cycled?

[DiscusKeeper403]

My money would be on ammonia or possibly flukes.

[nichaqui]

This tank is cycled - it previously had 1 shark and 1 catfish in it so as to get the bacteria going. PH is 6.7. My worries are either nitrates or hardness. Regarding ammonia - i have no test kit for that but i remove any uneaten foods and excretions daily. Flukes i have no idea what they are but the fish is currently resting slightly at an angle

[akumastew]

This tank is cycled - it previously had 1 shark and 1 catfish in it so as to get the bacteria going. PH is 6.7. My worries are either nitrates or hardness. Regarding ammonia - i have no test kit for that but i remove any uneaten foods and excretions daily. Flukes i have no idea what they are but the fish is currently resting slightly at an angle

Welcoem to the forums Nichaqui.

I strongly advise that you purchase test kits so that you can monitor the following.

Ammonia
Nitrite
Nitrate
gH
kH
pH

Depending on how large the "shark and catfish" were, your tank may be getting used to the waste from two larger fish.

This can lead to small spikes in Ammonia and Nitrite, whilst the bacteria take some time to catch up on the bio load.

I highly recommend increasing your water chagning regime, during this period, using aged; areated water that has been treated with a decholorinator.

If you find you have had a small Ammonia/Nitrite spike, there are a number of products you can add to the tank that will nullify the problem, until the bacteria has a chance to break it down.

Although with a small tank that you are housing your Discus in, it would be pretty quick to change the water.

[kaceyo]

For now you can get by with an ammonia test and a nitrite test. They are the ones that can cause big problems quick. Also they will tell you if/when the filter is cycled.
I think daily water changes with a dechlorinater of at least 50% are a must right now since you don't know if you have ammonia/nitrite present and polutents will build up quick with two large fish in such a small tank. Look towards getting a larger tank very soon.

Kacey

[nichaqui]

Actually the fish are in the small tank for breeding purposes. It is just them 2. Well they seem to be much better today after the 20% water change i effected yesterday although the nitrates and nitrites are still high. I decided i'll give it a couple more days and see how the notrates are, if they are still high i will effect another water change. An ammonia tester is a very good idea so thanks guys because the previous fish were rather small in size.

[mmorris]

If you are showing any nitrites at all, I highly recommend daily wc's of at least 50%. I would be doing them twice a day until the bacteria catch up. I use tanks about twice that size for breeding pairs.

[Smiladon]

ammonia and nitrites are really bad! they should always be 0.

I haven't kept Discus yet (very soon), but with my fish experience, I would say definitely do 80% wc with aged same temp water daily or do as mmorris said (50% twice a day) which is even better.

Keep monitoring your ammonia, nitrite and nitrate levels (before you do you wc).
Continue with the wc until you get the following params:
ammonia: 0
nitrtire: 0
nitrate 10-20ppm (might be lower for Discus?)
You should get through this in a week.

Is this a Bare Bottom tank BTW?

[nichaqui]

The water changes are proving very effective so thanks guys - yes this is a bare bottom tank and the fish are doing much better. However, there is a newly found problem - the male is portraying signs of hostility of the female, so much so that i decided to separate the 2 with a piece of glass in the same tank for a week.

Anyone knowledgeable in this field because i am merely hoping this is the male's way of showing his dominance and also hoping it is not long lasting

[rdlee]

The water changes are proving very effective so thanks guys - yes this is a bare bottom tank and the fish are doing much better. However, there is a newly found problem - the male is portraying signs of hostility of the female, so much so that i decided to separate the 2 with a piece of glass in the same tank for a week.

Anyone knowledgeable in this field because i am merely hoping this is the male's way of showing his dominance and also hoping it is not long lasting

Are you trying to breed ? You might need to find another mate for the male. He doesn't like her. :p BTW, I wouldn't use the glass to divide the tank though.

[mmorris]

The water changes are proving very effective so thanks guys - yes this is a bare bottom tank and the fish are doing much better. However, there is a newly found problem - the male is portraying signs of hostility of the female, so much so that i decided to separate the 2 with a piece of glass in the same tank for a week.

Anyone knowledgeable in this field because i am merely hoping this is the male's way of showing his dominance and also hoping it is not long lasting

Did you buy the pair from a reputable breeder who knew something of their breeding history? Are they a confirmed pair, ie, have they hatched out fry? Even if they are, pairs don't always get along all the time. If the female is being intimidated to the point that she is getting injured or isn't able to feed, then I would separate. Otherwise, I would wait and see.

[nichaqui]

The tank is a bare bottom one and regarding the 50% wc, isnt it bad to effect such high wc so often?

[Eddie]

The tank is a bare bottom one and regarding the 50% wc, isnt it bad to effect such high wc so often?

Not of the parameters are the same, with regard to PH and temperature. You could do 100% all day long as long as it matches. ;)

Eddie

[Peachtree Discus]

...They are in a 55 litre tank. ...

that's about 15 gallon tank....too small for 2 discus....and (IMO) too small for breeding.

[nichaqui]

The 2 have been separated for about a week now - you guys will be happy to hear nitrates are 0 now :) all it took was 1 50% water change. Female has healed 100% and both are now feeding substantially on blood worms (they love them). Tomorrow evening i will let the 2 interact once again and will get back to the forum with more info.

Many thanks for all your helpful replies guys i really appreciate it :)

[mmorris]

...nitrates are 0 now :) all it took was 1 50% water change. Female has healed 100% and both are now feeding substantially on blood worms .



If you do a 50% wc on a bb tank with high nitrates, then the nitrates will be only half as high. You should be showing at least some nitrates because they are the final stage of the nitrogen cycle. Glad to hear they are doing better. :)

[Smiladon]

You should be showing at least some nitrates because they are the final stage of the nitrogen cycle.

Thats right. I dont think you can ever have a nitrate level of 0 in an established tank (one exception would be right after a 90-100% water change)

[nichaqui]

I see - that is why then the sticks are slightly off white - although i am very happy with the tank conditions now. I unseparated the fish yesterday and they seemed to be doing very well together after last weeks mishaps and unfortunately, to my dismay, i found one of her fins torn yet again and so i separated them again. A friend told me to lower the temperature from 30degrees Celsius to 28 so as to calm the male down. Pls let me know what you guys think :)

[nichaqui]

I would be very grateful for any answers regarding violent behaviour from the male towards the female - this pair were bought as a breeding pair and yet - no breeding as yet. Although it must be said i live in Malta and i bought them from Malaysia on the 28th of October. Maybe they need some getting used to????

[Eddie]

If it gets too violent, such as damage to the females skin or if the female looks very stressed, you should separate them. Time apart may help in the end. ;)

Eddie

[nichaqui]

I repeated this process twice already and now they seem to be doing slightly better although the female is still dark in colour at times and at other time gets lighter and develops stripes for a very short while. I am feeding them black mosquito since it is supposed to help with their hormones.

[April]

id get a bigger tank. at least then they can get to either end. you need a breeding cone or something for them to lay on. it takes time to resettle and get interested in breeding once moved.
also..you need to have a proper wc schedule and be consistant to get them feeling happy enough to breed. daily. in a tiny tank..id do 60 percent or more. id look for a bigger tank. its too small even for them..thenif they did have eggs and or fry..not big enough.the ph would slide due to thefilter not keeping up etc..and fry cant take ph swings. get a 30 to 35 gallon tank.
they do go dark when breeding behaviour..the male tends to give a little nudge on her side ifhe wants her to breed.. as long as gentle and not full out mouth fighting etcv..id let them work things out. low ph makes them crankier also. keep your ph even. after a couple weeks whenthey are are settled and your getting used to their moods and wcs etc..you can drop the temperature by 2 degrees with a wc and see if they start bowing or shaking . signs of mating. bowing they both swim up tothe top..facing each other bow..and back down. your tank may not be tall enough for much of that. shaking..they start shaking staring at a corner or spot they want to lay.

[nichaqui]

WOW April - Great info - thanks so much. Well in the meantime ill start working on a larger tank. Regarding water changes, i do 25% water change weekly, ph is 6.6. Is the ph good at that level for breeding? The nudges you explain are exactly what is occuring right now - no mouth fighting although i spotted torn fins twice which the female has already recovered from. Re temperature - at the moment it is 29 degrees celsius - doesnt dropping temperature effect breeding negatively? Breeding cone is already in place although it is dirty for now - i was told they will start cleaning it once they are ready to breed. Shaking is already taking place and when the male starts to nudge her, the female tends to go whitish.

Thanks again so much April.

[April]

you need to do daily wcs or they will get stressed..go off their food and not breed. especially in that small tank.,
to be honest..you started a bit backwards in buying discus as a newbie. usually one would learn on raising young ones..learn their behaviours, care requirements etc,, wc routines,,and then they would pair up naturally in a group. then you are comfortable with discus care. then they breed..and your ready to care for tiny fry. the breeding part is the easy part. the caring for fragile tiny fry is the challenging part. but..if they do breed..then carry on with questions in the breeeding section of the forum and we will all try coach you through it. \
number one priority now is keep those adults in good shape via wcs.
keep ph from sliding,..and keep water clean enough you wont get fungused eggs . wipe down walls and clean the cone when you do your next wc. slimcoat on the walls is not healthy . it collects bacteria.
dropping the temperature 2 degrees with a wc makes themn spawn. in nature when the temp drops..floods occur..rainy season..the discus breed. a low pressure and storm also gets them breeding . 82 degrees is good for breeding temperature.
have a read around simply for care tips and breeding tips in different sections . the more knowledge on discus the more it will help you .