Help with discus tank (to be) purchases

[Taney]

I have a beautiful new 90 gallon aquarium that I believe is only worthy of discus inhabitants. :)
I will be setting it up on or a few days before Dec. 31st. (we're moving)
So far I have purchased:
tank
stand
canopy
2 200w Stealth heaters
siphon that connects to sink
2.1qt Nutrafin tap water conditioner
Marineland Bio-wheel power filter/Emperor 400 (for up to 90 gal)

I was hoping to avoid purchasing a canister filter... Can someone let me know if this filter will work? I'm thinking not... and I also believe I read NOT to use charcoal cartridges as well...
I want to go bare-bottom on the tank... but maybe eventually put an amazon sword in a clay pot. Or tie some fern or anubias to driftwood.

I would appreciate if someone could let me know if what I have bought so far will be ok, and what do I need to purchase next? I am really trying here, but thought it would be better to have someone guide me along as I make purchases.
I know I'm forgetting something but going to go ahead and post this now.

[Taney]

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk254/stanglash/GEDC0655.jpg

Thought I should add a photo of the filter in case nobody knew what kind it was...

[akumastew]

The amount of filtration that you need depends on a number of factors.

1. How heavy will you be feeding.
2. How many fish do you plan to keep.
3. How often do you plan on changing the water.

- Stew

[Taney]

I can do 7 water changes a week, however much is needed.

Would 6 discus be a good number for a 90 gallon? I don't know why that is the number I've had stuck in my head.

As for feeding, I'll feed what is recommended. I need to make a list to take to the fish shop.
When I purchase the discus, I would like to get them young because of the price difference.

[lemondiscus]

I have that same filter on my 125... I actually keep 3 filters on it but only reguarly run 2.

Penguin 350 - I never use this one very much...
Emporer 400 - This is the filter in the center of the tank and moves the water in the tank very well... also you have some room if you have any other media you want to add to it... I usually dont use this filter but for how it comes... It IS a strong filter though..
Magnum 350 - This is my one and only canister... and I dont really like it... It does not have the features most canisters in its class have like the XP3 and 4... BUT I do run this filter quite reguarly, however I reconfigured mine: I use the media basket and add Peat Moss to it and stuff it with filter floss... I DONT use the standard filter cartridge for it...

Again like Stew said it depends though on feedings, stock and WC schedule...

I change water on this tank 20% every week or 2... Refill about every 4 days from evaporation (I have over 200 watts of t5 lighting in my hood... feed 2x a day and keep 6 discus currently in it with plants (which are another thing that can affect your water in a positive way..) and I have 0-1ppm nitrate levels in my tank...

BUT I only clean my filter media in old tank water and IF I replace it I only do it to one cartridge at a time...

The thing I have noticed is my fish REALLY dont like to go anywhere near the Emporer... I think its the strong current that thing generates even though the flow rate IS adjustible... my fish dart right though it and relax away from that filter... just another point to consider...

If it were me... I would just run an XP4 and call it a day... but I have never had the $$$ to cover that purchase... I am too busy buying fish when I can! lol

[Taney]

LemonD... I didn't even consider lighting... thanks for mentioning that. Pulled mine out of the closet to check what I have and just broke one of the bulbs. I have 4 (3 now) :p LONG All-Glass Aquarium lamps 32watts each. The lid where the bulbs go has a silver reflective metal. I hope this is good enough.
I am going to check the price on an XP4!
And I'm shocked over how infrequent your water changes are. Maybe that will eventually happen with me.
I want to learn as much as I can before I make my discus purchase.

[yikesjason]

An xp3 should be sufficient for a 90 gal, but over filtering is always good.

[rickztahone]

most of us here on SD do more than once a week WC's. on the regular i would recommend at least every other day wc's with juvies. this has to do with feeding schedules. i feed at least 6 times a day and that wuickly fouls up the eater. on the other hand i have my 125 lightly stocked with adults that only gets 2 wc's a week. your setup sounds good so far but the only suggestion i might make is to get some prime water conditioner. HTH

[zamboniMan]

I think you'll be okay with that filter. It does a decent job aerating the water (a wet/dry/sump would be ideal). I personally use carbon on every tank (maybe i'm jst stuck in the old ways of doing things idk...) at any rate you can purchase media baskets for them which allow you to put whatever you want in it. I know people who use Purigen (made by Seachem) instead of carbon. Purigen is rechargeable to an extent and some people have great sucess.

I also use a couple of Magnum 350's. I like them but they can be tricky sometimes when it comes to sealing the canister especially after they've been around a while.

As was said earlier though. The more you change the water the less it matters.

You say for now that you want to do a bare bottom tank... That'll last until the aquascaping bug catches you. Then it'll be a whole different game.

Anyway.

Welcome and good luck.

Josh

[lemondiscus]

LemonD... I didn't even consider lighting... thanks for mentioning that. Pulled mine out of the closet to check what I have and just broke one of the bulbs. I have 4 (3 now) :p LONG All-Glass Aquarium lamps 32watts each. The lid where the bulbs go has a silver reflective metal. I hope this is good enough.
I am going to check the price on an XP4!
And I'm shocked over how infrequent your water changes are. Maybe that will eventually happen with me.
I want to learn as much as I can before I make my discus purchase.

The infrequent WC are due to A TON of plants and a VERY understocked tank... And that is ONLY for this one tank... I have 3 bare bottom tanks that get changed every day or 2... each tank each change gets 50%.... I just dont do it as often on my 125 because I have the tank buffered with peat moss and a massive waterchange will cause a fast spike in my PH... And as mentioned IT IS UNCONVENTIONAL compared to most on the board :D

Lights are not really needed UNLESS you add plants to the picture... 1 32 watt bulb will keep the discus happy... they like darker areas usually anyhow. Overdue the lighting and some want to hide in shadows...

And with your tank and the "rule of thumb" for discus you can keep about 9 in there... I myself wouldnt keep less than 6 and you CAN overstock to around 12 or so but by doing that you will be increasing your waterchanges many more times over just keeping 6.

Correct that an XP3 would work fine too if you cant swing the XP4... but as mentioned the more the better.

[Chad Hughes]

I would double that filtration and use Prime. :D

With 6 discus in a 90 gallon tank feeding three or four times daily, you could easily get by with two or three water changes weekly. Most folks that change water daily power feed. If you plan on feeding 10 times a day, then you should change your water daily. I find that three to four feedings daily to be more than enough when starting out with 3" discus. It works well. With that in mind, you'll likely siphon debris out of the tank daily which will preserve long term water quality.

To sum it up, feed ~4 times a day, siphon debris daily, and change no less than 50 % of your water once or twice a week! Remember, you are changing anywahere from 5 to 10% of your water daily through siphonng.

OR

You could remove all the filtration, add an air stone, feed like mad and change your water daily. Your choice. ;)

If you change your water daily, filtration is of little importance. The water is always new.

Best wishes!

[Taney]

I was going to buy Prime but bought this stuff instead. Isn't it about the same thing? Or at least would it be ok to use until it's gone and then replace it with Prime?

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk254/stanglash/GEDC0656.jpg

[Chad Hughes]

I was going to buy Prime but bought this stuff instead. Isn't it about the same thing? Or at least would it be ok to use until it's gone and then replace it with Prime?

http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk254/stanglash/GEDC0656.jpg

I just read the specs on what you have and it seems to work the same. The biggest difference is that you will need to add 10ml of your prduct to every 10 gallons of water to effectively neutralize chlorine and chloramine. With prime all you need to add is 5ml per 50 gallons to do the same thing. With prime, you will use a lot less product at water change time.

Hope that helps!

[lemondiscus]

You will find there are TONS of ways to handle discus... many do things different than others and all have success to a degree with what they do...

Keep in mind, each tank is different, even within your own house each tank will be different...

At the end of the day... VERY low Nitrates, NO ammonia, NO nitrates and a stable PH are the keys... breeding is a different animal as well as planted tanks... but they still require the same things but balance is MUCH harder as you go further into the hobby...

Many mistakes will be made as you go along, but the great thing is we have this HUGE community of fellow keepers that have made more mistakes than even I could make! And I have made EVERY mistake in the book!

What I do, isnt nescesarrily what you should do... I do agree with Chad on the Prime... I have a HUGE bottle of it myself... I use it EXCLUSIVELY!

Another thing to add... stocking up on meds ahead of time to cover many illesses that can pop up is a good thing so IF that time comes you have them... also an API Master Kit will be helpful! With the meds, you also will learn when to use them and when not to. Just because you have them and your fish seem sick DOES NOT mean you SHOULD use them... Its all part of learning about keeping discus... IME you will learn more than you can EVER imagine about fish care by diving into discus and keeping them for a year!!! The learning NEVER ends with them....

[Taney]

I cannot believe how wonderfully helpful you all are on here. This is GREAT!
I'm gonna go ahead and buy some Prime & use the other stuff for my other aquariums.
I do need a new API test kit.
I have been watching youtube discus videos for the past hour. There's so many different variants in color, I don't know how anyone ever can make up their minds on which ones to buy. Some of the tanks have all one color, others have a couple different, and then there's those who have every color under the rainbow. I cannot decide what I like best. Probably won't decide until I see them in front of my face.
I called the fish store and they sell Hans Stendker discus. They are on sale right now but can't get them until after we move. I can see why everyone that owns discus loves them.

[lemondiscus]

I cannot believe how wonderfully helpful you all are on here. This is GREAT!
I'm gonna go ahead and buy some Prime & use the other stuff for my other aquariums.
I do need a new API test kit.
I have been watching youtube discus videos for the past hour. There's so many different variants in color, I don't know how anyone ever can make up their minds on which ones to buy. Some of the tanks have all one color, others have a couple different, and then there's those who have every color under the rainbow. I cannot decide what I like best. Probably won't decide until I see them in front of my face.
I called the fish store and they sell Hans Stendker discus. They are on sale right now but can't get them until after we move. I can see why everyone that owns discus loves them.

I keep Wilds... Marlboro Reds and Blue Turquoise... I dont like the Marlboro Reds and wish I never had purchased them now... they dont Chi with my display tank (red fish and green plants IMO does not look good)....

But each person has their own opinions and it may take a bit for you to know what you like!

Enjoy them when you get them... they are addictive :D

[zamboniMan]

I keep just about every color I can find that I like so really anything that I see that I like I buy :D. I just enjoy keeping them and haven't worried about breeding them yet (bound to happen when I have more free time) so I don't worry about mixing the colors. Alot of people who have one color tanks breed and don't want to accidently cross their lines so that's why you see so many of them.

Good Luck!

Josh

[rickztahone]

I cannot believe how wonderfully helpful you all are on here. This is GREAT!
I'm gonna go ahead and buy some Prime & use the other stuff for my other aquariums.
I do need a new API test kit.
I have been watching youtube discus videos for the past hour. There's so many different variants in color, I don't know how anyone ever can make up their minds on which ones to buy. Some of the tanks have all one color, others have a couple different, and then there's those who have every color under the rainbow. I cannot decide what I like best. Probably won't decide until I see them in front of my face.
I called the fish store and they sell Hans Stendker discus. They are on sale right now but can't get them until after we move. I can see why everyone that owns discus loves them.

check this thread out ;)
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=71055

[Taney]

I was so kindly informed of a canister filter on sale & am ordering that online.
Saving some bucks!
After viewing the photos of discus on here I was so excited, we drove 45 min to our nearest petshop. I knew they sold fish from a reputable breeder I had found on this website. From viewing the what not to buy section of this site, I knew that I wasn't going to buy discus from this place. They didn't look anything like what I saw on the breeder's website. The prices were outrageous to me... $159.00 for a fish with holes in it's head??? If I were the breeder, I'd be upset to know the condition of my fish there... Ok, I can get over it because I went to another place & found some that looked a lot better. I have sent a couple emails to online breeders & haven't recieved a response. I still have pleanty of time to find a place (hopefully near me) that can ship to my house after we move.
All I came home with on this trip was a very nice peice of smooth driftwood, and some Omega One foods.
I just got an email response and know where I'm ordering my discus from, so ignore all of the above gripes. Yea!!!!!!!!

[yikesjason]

Where is it that you are moving to?

A lot of the breeders have normal jobs and busy lives as well as their discus. Discus is all about patience, including getting a hold of breeders.

[Jhhnn]

Using prime or most other water conditioners, you really want a seachem ammonia test kit. Check the sticky threads in the Water works section.

I'd add a few H-III ATI sponge filters w/ small airstones from Kensfish.com, one of their stick on liquid crystal thermos right up front where you feed the fish, and one of their Finnex heater controllers. Get the stealths set to 88-90F or so, then plug em into the finnex controller to run them at a lower setpoint. Keeps the heaters working together, prevents cooked fish...

Ken is one of our sponsors. His prices on everything are highly competitive and the service excellent.

Six fish seems like a good idea. It's important not to overstock, particularly at first...

[joanr]

A few other things to buy while you are at it:
Air pump, I like the Tetra Whispers, check valves with air filter inside, a lot of air line tubing, a good power strip with protection, maybe two so you can plug in lights, heaters and air pump in one strip and be able to turn off the filters with a switch when feeding if plugged into the second strip, a good bottom vacuum cleaner like the Eheim Sludge Remover, and something I bought for Micron Filtration last week, a Marineland HOT Magnum 250. I love it. Also you could use the Magnum pro canister 350 that you attach the bio-wheel to, but I just use the HOB Aqua Clears, 2x 70's and use the HOT Magnum between w/c's to polish and clean the water to sparkling. Also a set of brushes and cleaning tools, water temp thermometer, 2x of those. You may want to store your water if you have PH swings over 24hr period. Most importantly you will have to cycle that tank before you add fish and here is a great product for doing so:
http://www.fishlesscycle.com/, but any 100% pure ammo will do the trick.

[rickztahone]

you should know that almost all of our sponsors ship their fish at what i would consider reasonable prices since they do not take a cut of the shipping, plus they get a shipping discount. it becomes worth your while once you get more than 5 or 6 however. many praise Kenny, and i'm another one that does so...;)

[tcmemphisbbq]

im with a couple others, i would get another filter to add and use prime, I have a 125 planted with 8 discus and 20 or so black tetras... I do 2 50% wc per week. I am a big fan of filtration overkill... i run a 350 plus 2 cascade 1000's -

[Jhhnn]

Buying from our sponsors is the smart move. Few LFS really know how to care for discus, and the chances of the fish having pathogens is radically increased, particularly when central filter systems are used.

For the first batch, I'd suggest one of the less expensive varieties, and also fish that are at least 3" total length. 4" is even better. They're just easier to deal with all around. Shipping expenses are minor when buying half a dozen fish or more.

There are advantages to having all the fish from the same strain, same spawn. Growth rate differences are minimized, and it's easier to see if one fish is having problems when there are others of the same strain for comparison. Even though they came out of a bigger school of fish, they already have their dominance heirarchy sorted out, for the most part... they've been together their whole lives. I've also observed that the 2 strains I have seem to have slightly different temperaments, one of them seemingly more timid, more prone to huddle together if stressed, easier to become freaked out...

I also prefer the look of a school of fish that are the same variety, but that's just me, kinda old school that way.

[exv152]

Something worth thinking about, which I don't think has been mentioned, is to have caution with those marineland stealth heaters. I have heard several discus keepers, and other aquarists, have had the misfortune of these things malfunctioning which lead to their fish being cooked alive. I have two of these heaters myself and after hearing that I went out and got a separate heater controller with a sensor, which automatically cuts power off to the heaters once it reaches your predetermined max temp setting.

Not trying to scare you, but just something to ponder, considering the cost and emotional attachment of these fish it would be a shame to lose them like that.

[alpine]

Canister filters are really not needed with discus keeping in bare bottom tanks . Aquaclear 100 (or other brand) and two or three hydro III (seem to do better than IV )filters are just fine .

Prime is the Luxury king water additive !

Stealth heaters are of good quality (now the new ones are better yet) . keep two heaters of smaller wattage per tank , that way your fish will never "Boil " with any heater brand .

Stendkers rule and so do Wayne's Blues :)

Roberto.