Sexing Heckels

[gerbill]

Hello,
I am not sure if this is just a coincidence,or has anybody else come across it.
Most of the male Heckels I have are showing quite long growth in the ventral fins very similar to that in Angelfish.
As I said it may have nothing at all to do with gender,but your thoughts would be interesting.
A couple of pic's just to show what i am trying to point out.

[erikc]

From what little experience I have in sexing Heckels I wouldn't base sexing on the "ventral fins".

For me I would say that the first pic. could be a possible male and the second a possible female due to the fact that the horizontal striations are not always so complete on the females.

Size is also another factor, people who buy a group of even sized large heckels will probably find themselves with only males.

This is a tough question and it will be interesting to see what kind of feedback appears on this thread.

[Apistomaster]

Heckels grow longer pelvic fins than any other Discus species and are of no help in sexing them. All things being equal, males tend to be the larger and more robust of the sexes.
Sexing by the extent of striations is not reliable but I would agree that males will tend to be more colorful but there can be so much over lap that, too, cannot be trusted.

Behaviors can be telling; females usually will be the fish that chooses a spot to guard and you may see some cleaning of the site she guards. The male will tend to control the perimeter of a pair's territory and will be the one than returns often to spend time staring at the potential spawning site the female guards.

So you have to look at the totality of morphological and behavioral traits to form an educated opinion of the sexes. Heckel pairs frequently reach these stages of pre-spawning behaviors but that is as far as the vast majority of pairs go. No one has figured out how to consistently get Heckels to move on to the actual spawning stage consistently.

[wgtaylor]

Hello,
I am not sure if this is just a coincidence,or has anybody else come across it.
Most of the male Heckels I have are showing quite long growth in the ventral fins very similar to that in Angelfish.
As I said it may have nothing at all to do with gender,but your thoughts would be interesting.
A couple of pic's just to show what i am trying to point out.
I don't have enough heckels to have seen this but have seen this is blues and greens.
Only becomes most noticeable after they are fully mature more than a year in the tank then they show other sexual signs.
The females ventral fins appear shorter and they seem to hold them more erect than the males especially when the females are staking territories.
The males ventrals I have are like the Hawaiian saying, "hang loose".
Agree with Larry, not sure that is a way to sex discus but seems noticeable with at least some when they are mature.
Larry, I have some greens with ventral's as long as any altums I've seen, can't imagine they are able to get longer.
All the wilds are unique and different only sharing these different experiences will we come to more fully understand these wilds.:)

[wannafish]

Hello,

I have noticed these pairing conditions with a couple of
my Heckels. I would like to mention a couple of
my observations to see how accurate they are.
The male is definitely bigger and more round.
The female looks to me more elongated and smaller.
What I am curious about is that her dorsal fin
is always in a relaxed state, tucked in close to
the top of her body. I put some live worms in
the other night, and that was the only time I
saw her fin in a prone position. She does retreat
to safe spot and the male goes back and forth
to be with her.

Thanks,

Jeff

[Moon]

Hello,

I have noticed these pairing conditions with a couple of
my Heckels. I would like to mention a couple of
my observations to see how accurate they are.
The male is definitely bigger and more round.
The female looks to me more elongated and smaller.
What I am curious about is that her dorsal fin
is always in a relaxed state, tucked in close to
the top of her body. I put some live worms in
the other night, and that was the only time I
saw her fin in a prone position. She does retreat
to safe spot and the male goes back and forth
to be with her.

Thanks,

Jeff

How do you know if they are a pair? Have you seen the ovipositors?

[Alok]

I am no expert, but read somewhere that the dorsal fin in males is pointed while in females it is rounded. Does this hold any water? According to this parameter, the 1st pic would be of female while the 2nd pic would be of a male... Of course, I agree that the ovipositor is the best indicator.

[Moon]

IMHO It aint necessarily so. I have females that have pointed dorsals.

[wannafish]

Hey,

They definitely are a couple. I think I
just saw them kissing. Ah . . Yes . . .
the ovipositor. Okay . . . I am going
to have to get back with you on
that one.

[Moon]

Kissing doesn't count. LOL

[Apistomaster]

It sounds like the pair is forming their bond. That is the stage that is pretty easy to get to but the actual spawning is another kettle of Discus.

[wannafish]

Hey,

I caught a shot of my female ( I think )
out in the open, to see if the ovipositor
was visible. Take a look! Does it look
like the ovipositor is swollen. Pic is
a little blurry. I can try another.

Jeff

[ockyra215]

I think that we are going to need a better picture.I think the only way your going to tell is to see them spawn...But they will probably do it when your not around so set up a camera...:D

[gerbill]

Hello,
Reading this post with a lot of interest I wonder if it is breeding season in the wild, I have a number of Heckels showing sign's of pairing and even one female putting down eggs,I have 2 females guarding filter tube at one end of tank,and 2 definite pairs bonding ,still early days.
First pic the pair ,No2 female cleaning tube,No3/4 not very clear shot's of tube down on female.

[Eddie]

AMAZING Bill, totally amazing! Those heckels are priceless my friend!

I thought I remember Heiko mentioning something about the timing for heckel spawning and I do believe it was about this time of the year. I might be wrong but I thought I read something about it.

Keep us updated on the spawns and best with everything!

Eddie

[Ed13]

AMAZING Bill, totally amazing! Those heckels are priceless my friend!

What he said!:D

[ockyra215]

All man I totally agree they are some nice looking heckles all the best to some fry!

[mountain_priest]

I thought I remember Heiko mentioning something about the timing for heckel spawning and I do believe it was about this time of the year. I might be wrong but I thought I read something about it.


... my heckel pair(and only in the group) just had wigglers yesterday in my 120g community tank, it's their very first spawn. i'm wondering now if the're seasonal breeders...:confused:

ejay

[plecocicho]

Two heckels, or heckel with hybrid/other wild species? Report more regasrding water parameters, food, filtration,..:D

[mountain_priest]

Two heckels, or heckel with hybrid/other wild species? Report more regasrding water parameters, food, filtration,..:D

ph 5.0, KH 40, GH 75, nitrite 0, nitrate 80 as per the 5-in-1 test kit:D im sorry but that's the only test kit i have. 120g heavily planted on both sides and beach like area in the middle, white gravel as substrate. filtration: canister filter with induced co2 on the return side, sponge filter attached to the powerhead as current producer/air inducer. 2 heaters set @ 82 deg. food: porkheart mix, fbw, fbs, live blackworms.

[plecocicho]

Are any wrigglers present yet? Post some pics of the tanka and the pair.