PDA

View Full Version : Automated Filter cleaning, water changing and Inline-RO with Concentrate Tank



diskus24.de
01-01-2010, 10:18 PM
Hello Discus Enthusiasts,

from my post in 'waste water reclaiming (http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=74888)' i have been asked to explain a bit more detailed my system for water treatment, filtration and recycling, including RO as inline filtration with concentrate tank.

I want to start with basics about how my installation is setup in general, leading to the way i do automated waterchanges and RO Inline-Filtration.

My tanks are all in one row, build to hold a glas-on-glas installation as second row for future enhancements. Each tank has one overflow for 32mm pipes to run a gravity sump filter i developed by my self. Inside
the tanks a pipe in a T goes down and ends short above the bare bottom. With this installation i suck all waste into my filter. To supply water after filtration, each tank has one or two 20mm holes, depending on tanksize. All holes are drilled at the upper rim of the back.

My tanks are lit by 12V LED Stripes that are waterproof sealed in 10mm PVC Foam Lids to cover each tank completely. This not only helpes to reduce humidity in my fishroom significantly, but saves a lot of energy in the first place.

1. Biological Filtration and automated Waterchanges.
As mentioned before i use a central gravity filter for mechanical and biological filtration. My Filter has a prefilter chamber 1 wich is loaded with swimming beads and a 50mm overflow hole, connected to the wastewater drain. From chamber 1 to chamber 2 a 1.000µm Stainless Steel sieve. Chamber 2 to main filtration chamber can be covered with an optional 200µm Sieve.
Main biological filtration is done by up to 9 cartridges of 30ppm PUR Foam for in total max. 3.000l Water. This is my biggest filter, smallest is for 1.000 L. (see att. 3D Model)

Back to automated waterchanging:
in all gravity systems the mainpump of the filter supplies more water to the tanks than their overflow system can drain by gravitiy, until a balance is established and the system is stable.
In this stable condition i stop the mainpump by timer. With the mainpump standing, water still drains by gravity from the tanks into the filter, where water level rises and forces the filter to flow over into the drain. This way water leaves the system and part 1 of water changing process is performed.
During this process i switch on another pump, located in chamber 1 to set the beads in motion. The beads hold back a lot of waste from fishes, food and so on. As soon as they start moving, the dirt is released and sucked into the drain by overflow. The 1.000µ sieve is mechanically cleaned by the moving beads as well.
After 2 minutes i switch on the mainpump and off the Beadspump. With the mainpump working again, the filter water level falls by pumping water back into the tanks. The water removed by overflow is now refilled by a swimmervalve wich opens until water level rises again to its max. level.
Now, Part 2 of waterchange is done and my prefilter is clean.

The water quantity drained with each stop can be calculated. It depends on the surface of all tanks and the 'tide' between stable condition and lowest level before starting mainpump again. Total quantity per day depends on how many stops you programm with your timer.

The swimmervalve for refilling is located in the clearwater chamber. This chamber holds an additional overflow for RO Concentrate tank, but that's another story.

My next post will show some more pictures to illustrate how the whole system is working.

Now for today, have fun ;-)

Rudolf

diskus24.de
01-03-2010, 01:30 PM
Please find att. some pictures of my filter and description of all main components.

The first pic shows it with lid closed and all connections from tank to filter, vice versa and connection to freshwater and drain.

In picture 2, besides explanations i tried to mark in blue where the beads are when the filter is in stable condition. As you can see, they block the 1.000µ sieve to prevent it from clogging. on the left hand side is the inlet from tank, opposite site the location for the beads pump.

Next picture shows more detailed the 1.000µ Sieve and ritght hand side the 8.000µ sieve wich saves the beads from being washed out when phase 1 of waterchanging process is performed. Parts smaller than 8.000µ (8mm) will pass and go to the drain.

Picutere 4 shows the 'gate to hell' without sieve ...

Last Picture is to show you the double bottom that is connectet to clearwater chamber at the back of the filter. The Clearwater chamber holds the Swimmervalve for Refilling. At the bottom of the rear is a Pipe to mount the mainpump or heating system first and mainpump after heating unit (you can see the hole if you look closely).

I hope the pictures show how the water flows and the system is working. Otherwise feel free to ask ...

The number of cartridges used for biological filtration depends on total volume and can be calculated with an Excel sheet. It's based on a simple but very effective System that was invented in the City of Hamburg (Germany) and is called

Hamburger Matten Filter (HMF)

It is basically a sheetfilter that comes with a formula to calculate the surface (size) that is necessary to filter a tank biologically.

I don't know if you are familiar with this concept and would like to know if you are interessted to learn more if not?

Regards, Rudolf

yeutinh
01-11-2010, 11:19 PM
Your filter looks like a koi filter :D. Please explain how the waste is removed from the prefilter automatically. You said that the bead will keep alot of waste from fish, if we cannot remove it completely, it will make the water's condition going down very fast.
And how do you clean the 200u sieve ? By moving bead ?

diskus24.de
01-12-2010, 02:56 AM
Your filter looks like a koi filter :D.
In the Biological HMF Section it does. And as mentioned before its an excellent Concept for Biological Filtration. The difference is, that i know why and within wich limits it works.



Please explain how the waste is removed from the prefilter automatically. You said that the bead will keep alot of waste from fish, if we cannot remove it completely, it will make the water's condition going down very fast.

I tried to explain it in my 1st Post. During waterchange Step 1 i switch on a pump in Chamber 1 - the beads start moving like in a washing machine :). Due to their Movements they release the waste and the waste goes down the drain (Remember, Filter is still overflowing). Most customers do perform at least 3 waterchanges (subsequently Prefilter Cleaning) a day. That is more and better cleaning then changing/cleaning a Prefilter Sponge once a week.

If 200µ Sieve is used (none of my customers does), then it is cleaned by freshwater reverse flush during waterchange process step 1.

I recommend using Ancistrus in the Biological Filterchamber to clean up what passes the 1.000µ Sieve, works perfect ...

And yes, the filter is real ... ;)

yeutinh
01-13-2010, 02:53 AM
Thank you, I got it. BTW, could you please share the dimension ?

diskus24.de
01-13-2010, 04:00 AM
Length = 550
Width = 450
Height 400, with Lid Closed 403

All Dimensions in mm.

in inch:

l = 21,65
w = 17,72
h = 15,75 => 15,87

wanderingfish
01-14-2010, 10:01 AM
thank for sharing,
I have two questions:
1.which kind of beads do you use in prefilter? could you show some pics of beeds?
2.is swimmingvalve a float valve ?when the mainpump stop,it 's closed,water flow to drainpipe,could you show some pics of it too?thanks

can't wait to see your concentrate tank for removing nitrate:thumbsup:

diskus24.de
01-14-2010, 01:52 PM
Picture 1 shows the 'beads' i am using. It's also known as Kaldness, etc. but as i do not use it for biological filtration i call it 'beads'. (but of course bacteria will stick to it anyway...)
Picture 2 shows a small system installed at a customer site. Tankvolume is 720L.

Picture 3 shows the filter when overflowing. Inlet tube is where the Bubbles come from water flowing in. the tube going down sucks the waste in and drains it on the right hand side.

wanderingfish
01-14-2010, 02:28 PM
Thank you
Is the swimmervalve as the pic below show ?

diskus24.de
01-14-2010, 03:56 PM
Can't read the measures but seems to be the float valve / swimmervalve i use - or at least to be similar.

diskus24.de
01-14-2010, 04:37 PM
Please find attached a Photo from my Concentrat Tank (CT), Lid opened. The quality is poor, because of reduced size. I try to describe it:

On the left hand side you see my Filter and in the upper corner the cascaded Overflow from Filter into CT. This is to ensure that concentrate level stays as low as possible.
The black tube inside CT is the return tube from RO. The blue tube on the right side and behind the CT is Permeat (Clean Water) from RO that goes back into the filter.
Inlet for RO is at the bottom under the float valve. The float valve supplies water from filterpump into CT as soon as RO starts to work.

regards, Rudolf

jeff@zina.com
01-14-2010, 09:19 PM
So, you're basically running a Hamburger Mattenfilter with a timed dump of waste water and automated top off, correct? Though I like your unified package a lot. Thanks for the customer shot, that finally put it in perspective for me.

I'm assuming that since it's covered you don't get any algae/slime buildup, correct? That's an issue I have with sumps, though I went the opposite way and lit the sump and use live plants to help clean the nitrates out of the water and take them away from the algae.

I also assume, since it's a Mattenfilter in principal, that you're not cleaning the filter foam and don't, or rarely, siphon any mulm out of the filter chambers, is that right?

Thanks for the diagrams and photos, this is an interesting way to combine the functions together.

Jeff

diskus24.de
01-15-2010, 02:46 AM
Hello Jeff,



So, you're basically running a Hamburger Mattenfilter with a timed dump of waste water and automated top off, correct?


Yes, that's correct. And to eliminate nitrates i use reverse osmosis with concentrate tank as second treatment.



Though I like your unified package a lot. Thanks for the customer shot, that finally put it in perspective for me.


Thank you :)



I'm assuming that since it's covered you don't get any algae/slime buildup, correct? That's an issue I have with sumps, though I went the opposite way and lit the sump and use live plants to help clean the nitrates out of the water and take them away from the algae.

I also assume, since it's a Mattenfilter in principal, that you're not cleaning the filter foam and don't, or rarely, siphon any mulm out of the filter chambers, is that right?


Your assumptions are correct, there is no algae/slime buildup and i in fact never clean the cartridges, just siphon the mulm off the bottom of the HMF Chamber from time to time.
What builds up over time is a very strong and good working biofilm that helps to reduce nitrates as well.



Thanks for the diagrams and photos, this is an interesting way to combine the functions together.


For me especially using HMF for biological filtration brings a lot of transparency into the system. Customers can decide on various flowrates / throughput and calculate the number of cartridges needed by using my Excelsheet.

Rudolf

diskus24.de
02-03-2010, 05:51 PM
Hello,

it's me again with some new pictures from a customer, showing how the filter works. It' a UF444MB for 2.000 Liters.

Picture 1 shows the Filter when overflowing. On the lefthand side you see the drainage where the water goes with whatever the beads release. Here it seems that my customer feeds Artemia Salina ...
Picture 2 shows a view from the top into the filter. This Installation is special, because this customer is using a floatswitch to switch a pump from a drum to refill, instead of a floatvalve. (see Clearwater Chamber at the back.)
Picture 3 shows the filter just after Main Pump is back to Power again and refilling starts. Some Minutes later the water change will be completed.

Regards, Rudolf

Dkarc@Aol.com
02-03-2010, 10:34 PM
From what I understand from the pictures, you are using a very basic, non-pressurized bead filter for mechanical filtration. I am surprised that it seems to work as well as it does being the size of the media used...most bead filters use a much smaller media for particulate removal. What kind of flow rates go through the filter?

-Ryan

diskus24.de
02-04-2010, 04:52 AM
Hello Ryan,

max. flowrate for this model is 3.000 L/h. (2.000 L x 1,5 throughput)

This custumer runs it with approx. 2.200 L/h.

Beads are 8mm in Dia by 12mm length. Using much smaller media could clog it, or requires at least more cleaning cycles.

I am working on a solution for a 200µ Sieve with reverse flow for cleaning as second filtration before HMF Cartridges ...

But so far it works very good and people using my filters are very happy.

Regards, Rudolf

ansib
04-30-2010, 01:42 AM
This is a really good idea, but I think it could be simplified a bit. Or maybe I just cant see all of the angles from the examples. Might I suggest removing the pump in the bead area and replacing it with a carlson surge standpipe to siphon the filter to a level slightly above the beads, by creating a reverse flow through all filter media when return pump is cycled off.

http://angel-strike.com/aquarium/DoubleSurgeDevice.gif

This may be a problem in application, however, if filter unit must be located on the ground. If it must be, a similar solution can be achieved using a set of hi/lo float switches to toggle a pump on/off.