One possible option for a new tank...

[Yassmeena]

Hey all,

I'm starting a brand new tank (72 gallon) and am considering copying this Oliver Knott setup (gotta love Oliver!). It will probably take atleast 6 months to grow out and stabilize.

When it's ready I'd like to add one discus mated pair (adults). I don't think there will be enough room for more than that.

I'd plan on feeding them FBW and flakes (2 feedings per day should do it for adults?), keeping the tank at 82F, and doing weekly water changes as I had been doing with my former setup..

Anyone see a problem with this plan? Any thoughts?

http://www.aquabotanic.com/contest2004/tank_58/resized/OliverKnott2004-01.jpg

Thanks,

Yasmin

[pcsb23]

... Any thoughts? Yeah, I want that tank:bandana:

With a good clean up crew I think a matched pair will do well in there once acclimated. Water quality should remain good with all those plants too, so once a week will be fine.

[Yassmeena]

Yeah, I want that tank:bandana:

With a good clean up crew I think a matched pair will do well in there once acclimated. Water quality should remain good with all those plants too, so once a week will be fine.

Would you consider 6 cory sterbaiis, 2 albino plecos, 2 leopard frog plekoltias, 10 amano shrimp, 5 nerite snails and MTS to be a good enough clean up crew?

Yasmin

[pcsb23]

Would you consider 6 cory sterbaiis, 2 albino plecos, 2 leopard frog plekoltias, 10 amano shrimp, 5 nerite snails and MTS to be a good enough clean up crew?

YasminCertainly would, I'm not a huge fan of the snails, but thats just me :)

[erikc]

Would you consider 6 cory sterbaiis, 2 albino plecos, 2 leopard frog plekoltias, 10 amano shrimp, 5 nerite snails and MTS to be a good enough clean up crew?

Yasmin

I wouldn't say no to that tank either, that would be truly stunning with an adult couple !

Just one problem IMO, the Sterbais are quite large Cory's and they do spend their time sifting through the substrate looking for food. I think that they will probably disrupt your foreground plantation. In fact Cory's aren't usaully used in planted tanks for that reason.

[Yassmeena]

I wouldn't say no to that tank either, that would be truly stunning with an adult couple !

Just one problem IMO, the Sterbais are quite large Cory's and they do spend their time sifting through the substrate looking for food. I think that they will probably disrupt your foreground plantation. In fact Cory's aren't usaully used in planted tanks for that reason.

Hmmm.... yep that seems like a potential problem for sure. So what other fish could clean the ground?

[erikc]

In most planted tanks you will usually find amano shrimp and small catfish as cleanup crew (I suppose smails will be in the same category) anything bigger will disrupt the layout.

This is tough one but a very exciting project. Here's what I would use :

Catfish : Otocinclus Vittatus (10 no problem), these are the best suited, very small and will not disrupt your decor. You see these ones in all the best planted show tanks.

Cory's : Corydoras Hastatus (6-7 no more ), okay these are tiny pygmy/dwarf cory's, they are fun to watch and shouldn't be too disruptive. When I got some my wife couldn't stop looking at them and smiling , they really are adorable ! Put them in once the root system is established in your foreground plants.

Amano Shrimp : We'll they could end up being an expensive snack but they are un-beatable algae eaters. Some people keep them no problems some don't (include me in the later).

[Elite Aquaria]

Good luck with your new project...I love that tank...

[Yassmeena]

In most planted tanks you will usually find amano shrimp and small catfish as cleanup crew (I suppose smails will be in the same category) anything bigger will disrupt the layout.

This is tough one but a very exciting project. Here's what I would use :

Catfish : Otocinclus Vittatus (10 no problem), these are the best suited, very small and will not disrupt your decor. You see these ones in all the best planted show tanks.

Cory's : Corydoras Hastatus (6-7 no more ), okay these are tiny pygmy/dwarf cory's, they are fun to watch and shouldn't be too disruptive. When I got some my wife couldn't stop looking at them and smiling , they really are adorable ! Put them in once the root system is established in your foreground plants.

Amano Shrimp : We'll they could end up being an expensive snack but they are un-beatable algae eaters. Some people keep them no problems some don't (include me in the later).

Thanks for the recommendation for the cleanup crew. I never heard of that cory, but sounds promising!

About the otto - don't they have a potential to suck on the discus slime coat?



Good luck with your new project...I love that tank...

Thanks Dan. I'm still thinking about this for now. I'll only know for sure once I finish collecting info. :)

Yasmin

[gotfish?]

i would personally just go for the amano shrimp and MTS with your discus pair and not add anymore animals in there. place the shrimp a few weeks early in the tank so they can feel their way around the tank and would know how to navigate incase your discus pair deciede to go for expensive feeders, they might even start to multiply fast enough to maintain a certain population ;) (though i heard amanos can be difficult to breed).

eyes couldnt really appreciate the beauty of the the plants/scape when there is too many animals moving around the tank IMO :)

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

that would be totally awesome Yasmin! definatly give that a shot! cant wait to see it. any ideas on what strain of breeding pair you would want to buy?? I always think brown based reds look amazing in planted tanks...RRs, red covers, San merahs, santarems...lots to choose from. A really nice albino pair, or maybe a BD or BK pair?? lots of possibilities! whatever you do tho, try to make it a really beautiful and unique pair....have a tank all of your own, you know? make ppl say WOW, good goin Yasmin! :D:D;)

take care maam. :)

[Yassmeena]

i would personally just go for the amano shrimp and MTS with your discus pair and not add anymore animals in there. place the shrimp a few weeks early in the tank so they can feel their way around the tank and would know how to navigate incase your discus pair deciede to go for expensive feeders, they might even start to multiply fast enough to maintain a certain population ;) (though i heard amanos can be difficult to breed).

eyes couldnt really appreciate the beauty of the the plants/scape when there is too many animals moving around the tank IMO :)

I value that opinion! I can definately see what you mean, like I can imagine it!

But don't you think I would need a little more of a clean up crew (i.e. ottos and cories)? I would worry about uneaten food in the carpet or substrate causing nasty debris and bacteria overload! :(


that would be totally awesome Yasmin! definatly give that a shot! cant wait to see it. any ideas on what strain of breeding pair you would want to buy?? I always think brown based reds look amazing in planted tanks...RRs, red covers, San merahs, santarems...lots to choose from. A really nice albino pair, or maybe a BD or BK pair?? lots of possibilities! whatever you do tho, try to make it a really beautiful and unique pair....have a tank all of your own, you know? make ppl say WOW, good goin Yasmin! :D:D;)

take care maam. :)

Jason! Thanks for your enthusiasm! I am thinking along the same exact lines as you are! What ever they are they must be just amazing - BIG and ROUND and nice COLOR! For strains, its kinda early and it depends on what's out there, but in my ideal world they would be rose reds, san merahs, blue sapphires or striated cobalts. Rose reds first choice though! ;)

What do you think?

Yasmin

[Cooldadddyfunk286]

I think that sounds great. we are on the same exact train of thought...striated cobalts...BKs!! ;)

might be tuff to find adults in these strains we mentioned, especially a breeding pair. ur gonna have to do some research and have some convos with different sponsors and see what can be done when the time comes. Im sure Kenny can pull something real nice off for ya! :)

[gotfish?]

i believe the carpet is Hemianthus callitrichoides no? unless you wait for the roots to really hug your soil a clean up crew can be a bad thing. would you consider a really small group of dwarf loaches(sid. botia)(maybe 3 pieces?) somewhat of a clean up crew and somewhat of a snail population control ;) i dont think you would really have problems with leftover since im assuming that you would be feeding very little(and i would choose bigger/more visible food so it can be easily detected just in case it falls on the ground...maybe just stick with FBW?) IMO a good number of amanos in your tank is good enough of a clean up crew considering your really just feeding two pieces of fish ;):)

and i forgot to ask, what will be your WC routine?

[zamboniMan]

Wait until the plants are established then add the corries. That way they'll be well rooted and the corries won't pull them up.

The HC will be okay once its established and well rooted. Then good luck getting rid of it. :-p

[Wahter]

I'm pretty sure a tank like that has a lot of lighting and pressurized CO2 in it. Are you prepared to have those added to your tank?



Walter

[Yassmeena]

I think that sounds great. we are on the same exact train of thought...striated cobalts...BKs!! ;)

might be tuff to find adults in these strains we mentioned, especially a breeding pair. ur gonna have to do some research and have some convos with different sponsors and see what can be done when the time comes. Im sure Kenny can pull something real nice off for ya! :)

I know, it will be a bit of a challenge to find the right pair, but I'm not rushing. :)


i believe the carpet is Hemianthus callitrichoides no? unless you wait for the roots to really hug your soil a clean up crew can be a bad thing. would you consider a really small group of dwarf loaches(sid. botia)(maybe 3 pieces?) somewhat of a clean up crew and somewhat of a snail population control ;) i dont think you would really have problems with leftover since im assuming that you would be feeding very little(and i would choose bigger/more visible food so it can be easily detected just in case it falls on the ground...maybe just stick with FBW?) IMO a good number of amanos in your tank is good enough of a clean up crew considering your really just feeding two pieces of fish ;):)

and i forgot to ask, what will be your WC routine?

60-70% once a week, maybe 2x a week if needed.

I think there's still time to decide on the clean up crew. I definately will wait on adding the cories so I have the option not to if I want. :)


Wait until the plants are established then add the corries. That way they'll be well rooted and the corries won't pull them up.

The HC will be okay once its established and well rooted. Then good luck getting rid of it. :-p

Do you know much about growing an HC carpet? If so can I PM you with questions?


I'm pretty sure a tank like that has a lot of lighting and pressurized CO2 in it. Are you prepared to have those added to your tank?



Walter

Hi Walter,

People on planted tank seem to think that my light may be enough. As for the CO2, it's something I've always wanted to try so since I have no discus (:o) this seems like the best time to make that dive.

Have you had a CO2 injected tank before? Do you have any comments about your experience compared to non-CO2 injected?

Thanks everyone!

Yasmin

[theblondskeleton]

Hey Yasmin. Sorry to hear about your losses, but glad you are getting back into it!

As a planted tank guy, I have a little advice. The plants that he uses in the scape are all high-light, high-CO2 requiring plants, except the moss of course. Without it, they will grow, but not like the picture. That said, as long as you have solid lighting (i.e. T5HO or metal halide) you should be fine.

As for injected CO2, I'd say it's all but necessary with HC and the ludwigia inclinata - especially if you want that bright color. If you are going to have injected CO2, IMHO it would be insane to do so without a pH controller. End-of-tank CO2 dumps are sudden and devastating. It would especially suck with discus. The price of discus is considerably less than the price of a controller (I have a Milwaukee, ~$100) I lost a whole troupe of angels to a CO2 dump last year. Learned my lesson. As long as you stick to that, I think you'll have an amazingly beautiful tank!

PS - my last aquascape for my 90 gallon was largely inspired by that same tank, though I used pogostemon stellatus 'broad leaf' instead of the l. inclinata. :)

[Yassmeena]

Hey blondskeleton,

Thanks for that advice. I was thinking about the whole controller issue, and I agree - it's woth it! Are you satisfied with the Milwaukie?

Why did you use P. Stellata broadleaf instead if you don't mind my asking?

And lastly, do you have a picture of your tank? :D

Thanks,

Yasmin


Hey Yasmin. Sorry to hear about your losses, but glad you are getting back into it!

As a planted tank guy, I have a little advice. The plants that he uses in the scape are all high-light, high-CO2 requiring plants, except the moss of course. Without it, they will grow, but not like the picture. That said, as long as you have solid lighting (i.e. T5HO or metal halide) you should be fine.

As for injected CO2, I'd say it's all but necessary with HC and the ludwigia inclinata - especially if you want that bright color. If you are going to have injected CO2, IMHO it would be insane to do so without a pH controller. End-of-tank CO2 dumps are sudden and devastating. It would especially suck with discus. The price of discus is considerably less than the price of a controller (I have a Milwaukee, ~$100) I lost a whole troupe of angels to a CO2 dump last year. Learned my lesson. As long as you stick to that, I think you'll have an amazingly beautiful tank!

PS - my last aquascape for my 90 gallon was largely inspired by that same tank, though I used pogostemon stellatus 'broad leaf' instead of the l. inclinata. :)

[erikc]

Yasmin,

I've never had problems with Ottos, but I have had problems with BN Plecos (and others), I've even had problems with loaches that would compete with the discus for the food and just generally annoy them. They Ottos do tend to stay hidden away and you will only see them during the evening (if at all), they are very small catfish.

As for the CO2 controler, it is a must. It will take a few days to get the right flow of CO2 to your tank but it is an indespensable piece of equipemnt.

For lighting you will be looking at T5's, for this kind of tank you will need a row of 4 at least (power depending on the size of your tank). Forget MH's unless you combine it with T5's.

As for the fish, well, I would ask Hans for an adult couple of what used to be called Cobalt Greens. But of course it's entirely up to you !

Fix yourself a budget to begin with, it just helps, then you will happily forget it when you get nearer and nearer to starting your poject !!!

[theblondskeleton]

Yeah, my controller has been a lifesaver! the Milwaukee is good. It needs to be calibrated every few weeks to remain accurate, but I couldn't live without it.

I have a thread on my tank here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/journals/64283-90-gallon-rescape-7.html

The photos start about halfway down the page. That was when the plants had peaked.

I used the stellata because it was available at my LFS, haha... also, it's a larger plant, with leaves about 4" in length. I have a 90 gallon, so it was more the scale I was looking for. It grows like a weed!

[zamboniMan]

Of course you can PM me. I'm happy to help where I can.

[Yassmeena]

Yasmin,

I've never had problems with Ottos, but I have had problems with BN Plecos (and others), I've even had problems with loaches that would compete with the discus for the food and just generally annoy them. They Ottos do tend to stay hidden away and you will only see them during the evening (if at all), they are very small catfish.

As for the CO2 controler, it is a must. It will take a few days to get the right flow of CO2 to your tank but it is an indespensable piece of equipemnt.

For lighting you will be looking at T5's, for this kind of tank you will need a row of 4 at least (power depending on the size of your tank). Forget MH's unless you combine it with T5's.

As for the fish, well, I would ask Hans for an adult couple of what used to be called Cobalt Greens. But of course it's entirely up to you !

Fix yourself a budget to begin with, it just helps, then you will happily forget it when you get nearer and nearer to starting your poject !!!

Hi Erikc,

My budget is at $900 for the setup. I hope it will cover every little last thing. :o

The Cobalt Greens sound very nice. What I like about Hans is that his fish grow big and fat. :D

Thanks for the info about the ottos too. I like the idea very much!


Yeah, my controller has been a lifesaver! the Milwaukee is good. It needs to be calibrated every few weeks to remain accurate, but I couldn't live without it.

I have a thread on my tank here:

http://www.aquaticplantcentral.com/forumapc/journals/64283-90-gallon-rescape-7.html

The photos start about halfway down the page. That was when the plants had peaked.

I used the stellata because it was available at my LFS, haha... also, it's a larger plant, with leaves about 4" in length. I have a 90 gallon, so it was more the scale I was looking for. It grows like a weed!

Wow - amazing tank!!!!!!! I did something I usually don't do (for lack of time): I looked at every single page in your 11-page thread!

It contained some useful information too. Thanks for posting such a thorough log of your tank activities!


Of course you can PM me. I'm happy to help where I can.

Thanks so much zamboniman! I probably will! lol :D

Now I'm off to consider what to do first. I think I will start by writing down a plan: from start to finish, so I don't lose track of myself. :p

I'll keep you guys posted! (Maybe I'll start a new thread since this seems like it's actually happening now???) :)

Yasmin

[zamboniMan]

Just keep your same thread and post your plan.

[nikond70s]

hey yas, good choice about the planted tank. so you wanna grow HC right? IMO if you wanna grow them fast and healthy, grow them emerse, out of the water. theyll grow faster that way. what you do is just add the substrate your gonna use for the tank, cover with water enough to be moist dont flood it tho. then plant the HC and cover the tank with surrand rap or somwthing clear. so thats its humid and moist inside. and put a light on top of it. and within a few months the HC should grow very nicely and spread out nicely, good luck with the project, should look very nice once covers in HC.

[Yassmeena]

hey yas, good choice about the planted tank. so you wanna grow HC right? IMO if you wanna grow them fast and healthy, grow them emerse, out of the water. theyll grow faster that way. what you do is just add the substrate your gonna use for the tank, cover with water enough to be moist dont flood it tho. then plant the HC and cover the tank with surrand rap or somwthing clear. so thats its humid and moist inside. and put a light on top of it. and within a few months the HC should grow very nicely and spread out nicely, good luck with the project, should look very nice once covers in HC.

I've heard of the emersed method.

One thing I don't understand, when I place the serran wrap over the tank the light will melt it. It seems the only thing that go under my light is glass due to the heat it emits. :confused:

Yasmin

[nikond70s]

I've heard of the emersed method.

One thing I don't understand, when I place the serran wrap over the tank the light will melt it. It seems the only thing that go under my light is glass due to the heat it emits. :confused:

Yasmin

you dont need to put surrand wrap. it was just a thought. but glass would be perfect. if you use something like surrand wrap or something that might melt just put the light higher. either way your a smart gal you'll figure it out.

[Scribbles]

Just saw this thread Yas. Good luck with your project. I look forward to following your progress on this thread.

Chris

[Yassmeena]

you dont need to put surrand wrap. it was just a thought. but glass would be perfect. if you use something like surrand wrap or something that might melt just put the light higher. either way your a smart gal you'll figure it out.

Thanks nikond - I'll definately give that approach strong consideration.


Just saw this thread Yas. Good luck with your project. I look forward to following your progress on this thread.

Chris

Thanks Chris!

Take care,

Yasmin

[Yassmeena]

Latest update:

I changed my sequence a little. I am buying some albino red melon juvies from Kenny , hoping to grow them out and find a couple.

Once that's accomplished I'll start up on setting up my high tech planted and transfer them.

I just couldn't resist those ARMs!!!

Yasmin

[rickztahone]

Latest update:

I changed my sequence a little. I am buying some albino red melon juvies from Kenny , hoping to grow them out and find a couple.

Once that's accomplished I'll start up on setting up my high tech planted and transfer them.

I just couldn't resist those ARMs!!!

Yasmin

yeah i saw those, if i had the space and/or the money i would definitely buy some of those.