High Ammonia levels in Fry tank??

[aussiefish]

Hi
I have lost one of my 3-4 week old fry after transfering them from the parent tank to there own tank 1.5 days ago, i expexted i may loose a few from possible shock. I tested the water and the ammonia level was between 1 & 2 ppm and Ph was 6.8. How does the ammonia level get to this level when it was 0 ppm before we put the fry in to the tank?? Also we changed about 50% of the water and the ammonia level had not changed?? What can be done and in what way should it be done, We have API stress coat and A.C.E. ammonia chlorine eliminator, any help please.

[Eddie]

What type of filtration, what type of foods, how often are you feeding them, what size tank?


Eddie

[aussiefish]

What type of filtration, what type of foods, how often are you feeding them, what size tank?


Eddie

Sponge filter, Shaved bloodworm, 4 feeds per day, 50 ltr tank

[brewmaster15]

HI,
Your ammonia levels will rise like that because of the increase bioload to the tank. The fry are excreting ammonia into the water and the biological filter has not caught up with the increased load.. This would especially be true if the fry you added were good size to large group per tank size...

Your best bet is to increase water changes volume and frequency until the bio filter catched up. A commercial ammonia neutralizer can take the edge off things here until then. Keep the pH in the acidic range as it is will also help minimize the effect of ammonia.

last note.. monitor your NITRITES... these usually spike after ammonia.

hth,
al

[aussiefish]

HI,
This would especially be true if the fry you added were good size to large group per tank size...

Your best bet is to increase water changes volume and frequency until the bio filter catched up. A commercial ammonia neutralizer can take the edge off things here until then. Keep the pH in the acidic range as it is will also help minimize the effect of ammonia.

last note.. monitor your NITRITES... these usually spike after ammonia.

hth,
al

Thanks Brewmaster
There are 17 fry about 10 - 15 mm long in 50 ltr tank, this is the parents first hatch. We did not see the eggs so dont know how many they laid. I live in Western Australia and we have strict water restrictions (they check meters and have random spot checks all the time) hard to to do lots of water changes, have been doing 10% per day after a vacuum of the bottom of waste and uneaten food. We do have some BIO NITRIVEC (liquid biological filter medium) it says to use 10ml/ 25 ltr after water change, will this be ok to use inconjunction with your other info, will it be sfe for the fry???

[brewmaster15]

It should be fine to use but I honestly have little faith in those products as being helpful....Can you take more biological media from the parent tank? When I remove fry to a new tank I will usually have 2 sponges in the parent tank..then I move one with the fry.... when I don't do this I will take the cycled sponge from the parent...literally cut it in half and replace that with a new sponge cut in half...then use the cycled sponge half with a new half in the fry tank...

Both tanks then have half the bio media....which is fine,

hth,
al

[aussiefish]

Very smart thinking brewmaster, I will keep that in mind for next time. The fry were only spoted by me (as my wife usually feeds them) last saturday and at that stage they were about 3 weeks old so i had to set up the new tank in a bit of a rush so it only had 1 week to get started. When i clean the foam filter does this not get rid of all the biological material?? How should i be cleaning them. The filters i am using have 2 foam section exactly the same so i can take one out of the parent tank and swap with one in the fry tank, that should help, YES???

[brewmaster15]

Yes that will help alot!:) when you clean the foam...just light rinse out the filter...it does not need to be squeaky clean...too much rinsing and you'll impair the filter a bit. use tank water or dechlorinated tap water of the same temp or close to it.

hth,
al

[kaceyo]

You will also need a bigger tank right away. The cycled sponge will be a big help but they still need alot more water so it doesn't foul so quickly. Especially if you can't do large daily wc's.

Kacey

[aussiefish]

Hi all
Posted yesterday about high ammonia levels in my fry tank.
I swapped halt the filter from the parents tank, did a 30-40% water change, added some stress coat which helps reduce chlorine and ammonia and got ph to 6.7. Check ammonia level before i went to bed and was down to .25 ppm. I thought this was good and on the way to a recovery. I started work early next morning (4.15 am) and did not check levels before i went to work. Got home tonight (6.30 pm) and checked levels straight away, ammonia 2-3 ppm, lost 2 more fry, smallish compared to the others. What else can i do ???

[Eddie]

Hi all
Posted yesterday about high ammonia levels in my fry tank.
I swapped halt the filter from the parents tank, did a 30-40% water change, added some stress coat which helps reduce chlorine and ammonia and got ph to 6.7. Check ammonia level before i went to bed and was down to .25 ppm. I thought this was good and on the way to a recovery. I started work early next morning (4.15 am) and did not check levels before i went to work. Got home tonight (6.30 pm) and checked levels straight away, ammonia 2-3 ppm, lost 2 more fry, smallish compared to the others. What else can i do ???

Without a good biofilter, reduce feedings and big water changes. Sorry to hear about the loss.

Eddie

[aussiefish]

Eddie would the blood in the bloodworms be causing the high ammonia, because i am shaving it to make i finer for the fry to eat, after about 5 mins all the carcuses of the bloodworm pieces that have not been eaten are basically translucent. So i was thinking the blood may be the cause ?? Also would it be better to fill up my bucket with water and get it ready with stress coat in the morning to use at night in a water change ??

[Eddie]

It might be the blood but I feed pureed porkheart with NO binder to my juvies and at least 5 times a day. I don't rely on my biofilter as much as I do water changes. I perform 2 large water changes daily, >90% each time. The new water is aged 24 hours, PH and temperature are exactly the same as the tank water.

Eddie

[Tropical Haven]

Eddie is right on, the large water changes twice a day is a must for baby discus to keep level at a low level.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Your lack of a large enough bio filter is certainly hurting you here. However it sounds like you are losing fry from nitrite rather than ammonia. Even at 2-3ppm, there is very little free ammonia (unionized) in the water. I can almost guarantee your water quality issues are nitrite related. Measure those and see your levels. If there is any detectable level, be sure to add in salt to help them out. I would aim for 4-6 tablepoons of salt per 10 gallons and make sure you replace what you take out (pro-rated amount). If there is nitrite and you have salt in the water they should be doing much better.

-Ryan

[kaceyo]

If I remember right you also have them in a pretty small tank, which should make doing wc's easy. Plan on doing one large wc before work and one after.
And if you're using a good ammonia detox, you won't have any problems with ammonia even if it does rise between wc's.
Maybe you have something else going on too?

Kacey

[aussiefish]

Hi all
I am now changing water in the fry tank every 12 hrs, but only 20%, and aging the water with stress coat for that 12 hr period before putting it in the tank. When I tested ammonia and Ph they were 0-0.25 ppm ammonia and 6.6-6.8 Ph this looks much better, I could not get to aqarium shop today will go tommorow and get nitrate(?) testing kit. All this water change stuff is a lot of work, I have to do it all in buckets, can anyone help with suggestions to make i easier??? I was watching the parents of the fry and they were doing a lot of shaking and shuddering next to one another, are they thinking of laying some more eggs?? Can they lay more eggs this soon after me taking out the fry?? And another 2 fish are defending a territory and doing a bit of shuddering in my 380 ltr tank so i may have to remove them soon as they are starting to beat up the other discus!!! I was lucky yesterday to score some glass panels (laminated 13mm thick 3m x 1.2m) 10 sheets in all. May need to make some tanks for all these fish !!!!!

[kaceyo]

Glad to hear things are going better. The test you want is Nitrite, not nitrate. When cycling a filter the nitrite will rise and then drop back down to 0, and it's very toxic to the fish. Add salt at 4tbsp/10gal if you have any nitrites at all untill it drops back down.
A good way to do wc's is to have a barrel that holds at least the amount of water you'll need to do a large wc in your tank. Bigger yet is better though. Run a heater in the barrel and get a water pump or power head with some hose to run the water into your tank. You can either drop an airstone into it or run the pump to circulate the water for gas exchange and heat dispersal.

Kacey

Hi all
I am now changing water in the fry tank every 12 hrs, but only 20%, and aging the water with stress coat for that 12 hr period before putting it in the tank. When I tested ammonia and Ph they were 0-0.25 ppm ammonia and 6.6-6.8 Ph this looks much better, I could not get to aqarium shop today will go tommorow and get nitrate(?) testing kit. All this water change stuff is a lot of work, I have to do it all in buckets, can anyone help with suggestions to make i easier??? I was watching the parents of the fry and they were doing a lot of shaking and shuddering next to one another, are they thinking of laying some more eggs?? Can they lay more eggs this soon after me taking out the fry?? And another 2 fish are defending a territory and doing a bit of shuddering in my 380 ltr tank so i may have to remove them soon as they are starting to beat up the other discus!!! I was lucky yesterday to score some glass panels (laminated 13mm thick 3m x 1.2m) 10 sheets in all. May need to make some tanks for all these fish !!!!!

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Yes you want a nitrIte test (NO2). In the mean time like I said in my earlier post, add in salt to the tank and see if that helps any.

-Ryan

[brewmaster15]

I merged this thread with the other 2 so all info is in the same place.

-al

ps.. I too think you need to monitor Nitrites.

[Eddie]

Glad to hear things are going better. The test you want is Nitrite, not nitrate. When cycling a filter the nitrite will rise and then drop back down to 0, and it's very toxic to the fish. Add salt at 4tbsp/10gal if you have any nitrites at all untill it drops back down.
A good way to do wc's is to have a barrel that holds at least the amount of water you'll need to do a large wc in your tank. Bigger yet is better though. Run a heater in the barrel and get a water pump or power head with some hose to run the water into your tank. You can either drop an airstone into it or run the pump to circulate the water for gas exchange and heat dispersal.

Kacey

Ditto what Kacey said. I use large containers filled with water, airstone, heater and a small water pump to pump water into the fry/breeder tank. Its easy as pie to do 90%+ water changes, twice a day.

Eddie

[SarahN440]

I've been watching water quality. Had a .25 reading of ammonia. Nitrites and Nitrates were not bad. Did a 50% water change, and still .25 Ammonia. So then I immediately changed another 30%. Still .25 ammonia. Just worried about the ammonia killing them. So now I have emptied and refilled their tank with new ro water.( they are in small holding tank made for betas). I fed them just now. -infusoria and some frozen rotifers. Not sure if they were eating or not. I'm giving them time to eat, and then I will put them back into the now ammonia-free tank. I'll feed again in the morning and check ammonia levels again. But maybe .25 ammonia is not to worry about? This little 1.5 gallon tank wasn't cycled, and is so volitle. I'm going to breed the next batch in a 5 gallon, that is aged. Hopefully I can leave them there and just do water changes. Also read there may be a special way to make infusoria for Blackwater fish. I also read somewhere that infusoria doesnt form well in acidic water -which is what I used. So Im not sure how much infusoria is in there. Used a small container-boiled carrot, celery, spiniach in ro water that I got from an aged filter. Its been sitting since 9/30/11 so thats 9 days. It is cloudy, but I cant see anything swimming. I think I need a microscope. Any advice is appreciated ! Thank you.

[SarahN440]

This post from me is regarding my Neon Fry in a 1.5 gallon tank.

[TURQ64]

Safe or Prime will neutralize and bind the ammonia until you get things under control.......

[kaceyo]

Safe or Prime will neutralize and bind the ammonia until you get things under control.......
Ditto