Loaches vs Cories for planted tank

[waters10]

I'm just starting my plans to convert my semi-bare bottom (driftwood with plants) to a fully planted tank. My tank is 85 gallon. At the moment, I have only 3 adult discus after I lost 4 adults recently ... I might add more next year, after my conversion to fully planted tank is completed. And I'll use a BB growout tank before putting them on the planted tank.

I already bought white pool filter sand, but won't put in the tank until a couple of months. I already got nerite snails as part of my cleaning crew and I'll be getting 1 or 2 bristle nose plecos.

My plan is to get somewhat dense plants, with a good portion of the tank covered by a foreground carpet. Haven't decided on which plant and if I'll be going high tech or not.

Now to my question. What are the pros and cons of Loaches vs Cories? I have a pretty bad snail infestation. I remove a lot when I do my water changes (twice a week), but it's just not enough. So I was really considering getting some zebra or kubotai loaches, since they are good snail eaters and stay much smaller than clown loach, a fish I'd love to get, but not feasible ...

Between loaches and cories, which one eat leftover food from dense carpets? Which one messes up with substrate, digs holes and uproot plants more? Which one requires suplemental feedings, other than leftover food? Any quirky behavior that I should learn from either?

I've had cories before, but never had a loach ... So any help is appreciated.

[yikesjason]

I would say get a couple of loaches for the snails, and a school of corys for the clean up.

[waters10]

I would say get a couple of loaches for the snails, and a school of corys for the clean up.
That was quick! :)

Yeah, I was considering getting both ... But from what I read, loaches do better in groups of 4 or more, but I guess I could compromise, I guess.

So you don't think 4 or so zebra/kubotai loaches could fulfill the cories role as part of the clean up crew?

PS: By the way, I'll be watching your "for sale" threads on the plantedtank.net forum. And I might be going with marsilea quadrifolia as my foreground plant, based on your tank. Although e. tenellus is my first option now.

[whitedevil]

check out serpentine loaches, I know my pangio oblongas love trumpet snails sold as black kuhli loaches in the pet trade but are not a kuhlii.

Or you could get some assassin snails which only eat meat be it dead inhabitant or a live snail, Corydoras for a cleaning crew for sure, I keep 18 of them in one tank 5 in another and 6 in another.

get a BNP,RNP or some TRUE SAE's to tend to the algaes in the tank, they are three species that will not eat a live plant only dead or dying parts of a plant.

[yikesjason]

PS: By the way, I'll be watching your "for sale" threads on the plantedtank.net forum. And I might be going with marsilea quadrifolia as my foreground plant, based on your tank. Although e. tenellus is my first option now.

If you do want to try quadrifolia, just send me a pm and we can work something out.

[waters10]

check out serpentine loaches, I know my pangio oblongas love trumpet snails sold as black kuhli loaches in the pet trade but are not a kuhlii.

Or you could get some assassin snails which only eat meat be it dead inhabitant or a live snail, Corydoras for a cleaning crew for sure, I keep 18 of them in one tank 5 in another and 6 in another.

get a BNP,RNP or some TRUE SAE's to tend to the algaes in the tank, they are three species that will not eat a live plant only dead or dying parts of a plant.
Good call on the assassin's snails. I have to read more on them. Do they eat nerite snails?

You'd say corydoras are a must then?


If you do want to try quadrifolia, just send me a pm and we can work something out.
Sounds good! I'm not ready for it right now, since all my current plants are attached to driftwood or are potted. I'll shoot you a PM in the future, when the time comes. Thanks!

[mlw]

I had zebra loaches and had to remove them. They were fine as long as I wasn't feeding them. When feeding time came they harassed the hell out of the discus. They were up at the top eating, chasing and tail nipping. Maybe I just had a group of thugs but they had to go!

[diveshooter]

I would say get a couple of loaches for the snails, and a school of corys for the clean up.

I agree. I introduced 2 zebra loaches to my 90 gallon planted tank and 3 days later snails were gone. Also, you can't beat corys for near non-stop bottom cleaning.

[calihawker]

I too agree with the zebra loach as a problem. Great for taking care of snails but the snails are gone quick then they feed like everyone else in the tank and they were just a little to active for the discus. I really like y. sidthimunki if you can get them, along with a couple cories and some true SAE's.

[waters10]

hmmm. Didn't know that zebra loaches could become a problem. Is the same true for kubotai loaches?

From what everyone is saying, some corydoras are a must then. The whole reason of this thread was to see if loaches could replace corydoras, but since everyone that replied so far, told me to get corydoras regardless, I guess I'll go ahead and get some. Then maybe I'll start another thread about how to get rid of snails!

Oh and I almost got SAE's in the past, but I have java moss and fissiden fontanus in my tank. And this article (http://www.aquamoss.net/Articles/Siamese-Algae-Eater-And-Aquatic-Moss.htm) mentions that SAE's are not a good idea if you have moss in your tank!

[waters10]

I really like y. sidthimunki if you can get them
Just found a site that sells these. I actually had ruled these out cause I read that they are pretty expensive ... Doesn't seem that bad. These get back in my list then. Do they eat snails as well?

[calihawker]

Just found a site that sells these. I actually had ruled these out cause I read that they are pretty expensive ... Doesn't seem that bad. These get back in my list then. Do they eat snails as well?

Yeah, when I first got them people said they were too small to take care of snails but they had no problem at all. Really a fun little loach to have. Definately in a group of 5 or more.

[mjs020294]

We have corys, a yoyo loach and shrimp to clean the bottom plus BN plecos for the windows. All of them work tirelessly and the tank is in great shape. The loach will probably eat the shrimp at some point but they are only feeders that we have grown out.

[Alok]

The advantage with sidhimunki is that they are always out in the open and so a group of 6 or more is really fun to watch. I am surprised though that so many people keep cories with discus, as I believe most cories prefer cooler water than discus..

[Eddie]

The advantage with sidhimunki is that they are always out in the open and so a group of 6 or more is really fun to watch. I am surprised though that so many people keep cories with discus, as I believe most cories prefer cooler water than discus..

Some cories can tolerate the higher temps, not too high but 82 is fine depending on the species. I like sterbais alot.

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=bronzecory

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=skunkcory

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=sandscorydoras

http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/corydoras_sterbai.html

[whitedevil]

Good call on the assassin's snails. I have to read more on them. Do they eat nerite snails?

You'd say corydoras are a must then?


Sounds good! I'm not ready for it right now, since all my current plants are attached to driftwood or are potted. I'll shoot you a PM in the future, when the time comes. Thanks!

IMO corydoras are a must in almost any tank depending on tank mates. They do their job fully and are very very good at it.

I am not sure on nerite but if nerites are bigger snails then assassins wont bother them. they look for same size or a little bigger then themselves to eat, when the prey is bigger the assassins will pack up to take it down. However that has not been the case with the larger ornamental snails, I think they are safe from something about 1/8th their size. They mainly love the trap door style snails, they suck that door open and have fresh es cargo for dinner.

I found some of those stupid pond snail in with my plants I ordered, I threw one assassin from my posse of 6 into that tank, I found 1 snail the other day when I did my water change and replant and squished him. Other then that I dont think they will pose a problem. I am a trumpet snail fan, I got thousands of em, while they will always reproduce to sustain a population for keeping the tank near spotless they will also slow to cease breeding when their is not enough food for them, these snails are the first additions to tanks I plant, the pros outweight the cons in every way shape and form on them however assassins love them.

I keep a fully stocked cleaning crew in all my tanks, I prefer them to keep the gravel clean rather then my hose.


Yes for corydoras
Yes for assassins
Yes for serpentine loaches

[Sharkbait]

My cleaning crew consists of:

4 or so Ghost Shrimp
1 SAE
2 ABNP
1 Apple Snail ("todd")
3 Clown Loaches
10 Ottos

Clown loaches will not get overly big in a planted tank environment and are a great addition to any tank.

Ottos are 50/50. Some will go after discus, some won't. Just keep your fingers crossed you've got a nice batch.

The only time I'd put snails in my tank is if no loaches are involved. Yes, I know there's an apple snail in my tank...but the thing is so huge that even the loaches leave him alone. Reason being, loaches will eat nerites, trumpets, anything. Soon, you'll have nothing. If you're getting snail, add cory instead.

SAE and moss? Nothing bad there. I have entire logs covered in java moss and my SAE hasn't done anything about it. Actually, I've seen him carefully suck off the ends of indivisdual strands...

Shrimp are a toss up too. Discus and loaches will eat the shrimp...so the denser planted the tank, the safer it is - which is why moss is great, especially for shrimp eggs.

[Chad Hughes]

The best combination of "dither/maintenance fish" that I have found to work best for discus tanks are a school (6-12) of SAE (for algae), corys for general bottom cleanup, and the Botia (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.thatpetplace.com/images/Promotions_Image_Files/StripedFish200x172.jpg&imgrefurl=http://blogs.thatpetplace.com/thatfishblog/2008/08/15/botia-striata-the-smart-snail-solution/&usg=__Pf_HOufIaz7pAkp0cxjSY-gzTGI=&h=200&w=172&sz=13&hl=en&start=2&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=nhOgMN6UC-fqUM:&tbnh=104&tbnw=89&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsnail%2Beating%2Bfish%26um%3D1%26hl%3 Den%26sa%3DX%26tbs%3Disch:1) (snail KILLERS). I have never seen a fish wipe out a snail population as quickly as these little guys..... and they are LITTLE! I put 6 each in a 150 and 110 tank and I've gone from snail infestation to where's all the snails? When you clean your tank, you'll be removing a ton of shells!

Hope that helps!

[waters10]

My cleaning crew consists of:

4 or so Ghost Shrimp
1 SAE
2 ABNP
1 Apple Snail ("todd")
3 Clown Loaches
10 Ottos

Clown loaches will not get overly big in a planted tank environment and are a great addition to any tank.

Ottos are 50/50. Some will go after discus, some won't. Just keep your fingers crossed you've got a nice batch.

The only time I'd put snails in my tank is if no loaches are involved. Yes, I know there's an apple snail in my tank...but the thing is so huge that even the loaches leave him alone. Reason being, loaches will eat nerites, trumpets, anything. Soon, you'll have nothing. If you're getting snail, add cory instead.

SAE and moss? Nothing bad there. I have entire logs covered in java moss and my SAE hasn't done anything about it. Actually, I've seen him carefully suck off the ends of indivisdual strands...

Shrimp are a toss up too. Discus and loaches will eat the shrimp...so the denser planted the tank, the safer it is - which is why moss is great, especially for shrimp eggs.
Interesting that you have SAE's and you don't have problems with your moss! I wonder if this is like bristlenose plecos, which some people had problems with them latching to discus.

Regarding loaches eating nerites, even these small ones (http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki)?

Chad, this one you linked to are the zebra loach that I was initially considering. Did you get any problems with them being too aggressive towards your discus?

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

[waters10]

Some cories can tolerate the higher temps, not too high but 82 is fine depending on the species. I like sterbais alot.

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=bronzecory

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=skunkcory

http://www.aqua-fish.net/show.php?h=sandscorydoras

http://www.scotcat.com/factsheets/corydoras_sterbai.html

Any reason you prefer sterbais over skunk? Aesthetics only or is it a difference in behavior? I like the looks of skunk cories a lot!

[Chad Hughes]

Interesting that you have SAE's and you don't have problems with your moss! I wonder if this is like bristlenose plecos, which some people had problems with them latching to discus.

Regarding loaches eating nerites, even these small ones (http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki)?

Chad, this one you linked to are the zebra loach that I was initially considering. Did you get any problems with them being too aggressive towards your discus?

Thanks everyone for the replies so far.

I've had absolutely no issues and am very pleased with the amount of snails they destroy.

[calihawker]

A cousin to the cory that I really like as well and did extremely well with discus is brochis multiradiatus. The pair in the picture are full size. (note the little sidthmunki to the left.:))

http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/mini-DSC00343.jpg

[Sharkbait]

Regarding loaches eating nerites, even these small ones (http://www.loaches.com/species-index/yasuhikotakia-sidthimunki)?

As far as I know...snails are fair game to ALL loaches. Just they way that their mouth is shaped, it's perfect for getting snails out.

...and if you read further into the loach profile you suggested...apparently they are endangered?...and demand a high price tag. Kinda sucks when you need a shoal.

Stick with clowns or yoyos if you're going down the loach road. Kuhliis are alright too...but you'll never see them. ...and of course...keep in mind...they will rid you of all snails except really...really...big ones :)

[Eddie]

Any reason you prefer sterbais over skunk? Aesthetics only or is it a difference in behavior? I like the looks of skunk cories a lot!

Mainly Aesthetics but I also like skunk cories. :)

Eddie

[waters10]

As far as I know...snails are fair game to ALL loaches. Just they way that their mouth is shaped, it's perfect for getting snails out.

...and if you read further into the loach profile you suggested...apparently they are endangered?...and demand a high price tag. Kinda sucks when you need a shoal.

Stick with clowns or yoyos if you're going down the loach road. Kuhliis are alright too...but you'll never see them. ...and of course...keep in mind...they will rid you of all snails except really...really...big ones :)
Yeah, the high price mentioned on that article made me cross it from my list. But I saw that they are sold for around 8-13/each, which is not that bad. I'm considering getting 4 of them. From what I read here and on plantedtank.net, it's a very fun fish to have! And it's small! I'd love to get some clown loaches, but they just get too big for my 85g tank.

For now, my plan seems to be 4 sid loaches, 2 skunk cories, 1 or 2 bristlenoses and maybe 5 ottos. And I have 2 nerite snails already, which I hope don't get eaten by the loaches. I'm not sure when I'll move on with this plan, but hopefully during the summer.

thanks for the great help!

[Condor]

There are several loaches that can be termed as zebra loaches. Are we talking about botia striata as loaches people have been having problems with?

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-striata

Steve(Scolley) kept/keeps them... Post 139 and 171..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58151&highlight=kahuna&page=4

Adrian

[waters10]

There are several loaches that can be termed as zebra loaches. Are we talking about botia striata as loaches people have been having problems with?

http://www.loaches.com/species-index/botia-striata

Steve(Scolley) kept/keeps them... Post 139 and 171..
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=58151&highlight=kahuna&page=4

Adrian
Can't speak for everyone, but I meant botia striata, when I mentioned zebras. I don't think it's a clear cut case of zebras = problems. I've read a lot of good reports on zebras here and other forums. It's probably some variations due to tank conditions and different personalities.

[DocB]

I'm assuming the clown loaches will eat the assassin snails....:(

[tcmemphisbbq]

I have both in my 125, i have 6 albino corie for clean up, and 2 yoyo loaches and a clown loach for snail control, i had a bad bad bad snail outbreak - nothing I did helped, would find thousands per week in the canisters - finaly bought the yoyo loaches and suck as many as I could and its under control now - they have big ole fat bellies and I see them eating the snails whole all the time - I also have a clown loach to help - the cories do a great job keeping excess food cleaned up though.....

[whitedevil]

I'm assuming the clown loaches will eat the assassin snails....:(

Yes, they will eat the assassins as well. a snail is a snail, im sure they all taste the same and carry the same scent.

My SAE's dont touch my java moss,christmas moss and flame mosses at all, if anything they use it for a bed.

[crazycracker]

I have Brochis "Green Hump" Cory cats - they are suppose to like the cooler water but I've had them over a year w/o any issues in my discus tank (84 degrees w/ 6.6 ph). I only got them because they were the biggest ones in the pets store @ the time. No issues.

[JaVia]

The input I can give is stay far far away from yoyo loaches.

(A yoyo loach, almora loach or Pakistani loach, Botia almorhae, is a freshwater fish belonging to the loach family)

The are adorable little fish with fun personalities if you like to see your fish and interact, but they are terrors to other fish. I started with one and had problems the owner of my LFS recommended I get a few more because they do better in groups and tend not to terrorize as much, so I did... and well, he was wrong. I could not figure out who was attacking my rams or my angel, so I sat in there and watched for a good two hours, finally I caught the little buggers. They are fin nippers and one some how ate my angelfish's eye the poor guy was trying to hard to keep swimming I put him in a hospital tank but he did not make it. So now these little guys live with my Severums and still compete for food but my large severums hold their own quite well and do not put up with the attacks. I am down to two loaches, one attacked my severum and he did not tolerate it at all.
I can not imagine them with slow calmer fish.

and so far my best luck is with my albino cories.

[Jennie]

I've had zebra loaches and alb. cories in with discus.. neither bothered the discus..clown loaches get big and torment the discus by poking them with their barbs..that has been my experience

[RudeDogg1]

im thinking of getting some kabotia botia they are ment to be pretty gd with discus

[aix1]

I have a very negative experience with kabotia. it is chasing angels all day long, I need to put it somewhere else, it considers all the tank like it's territory and bullies everybody... And the tank is 125g...

[RudeDogg1]

trouble is you can get that with any fish its just luck of the draw half the time

[pcsb23]

kabotia botia should be kept in groups (4 or more), they are quite social and active.

[RudeDogg1]

Yup 4 or more seems to be the magic number with loaches