215, Planned: planted tank, looking for advice...

[bstreep]

OK, as you can see, I'm new HERE. I've been in the hobby for over 35 years - for 8 years I worked at a very large LFS. For the past 10 years, I've been back in Reef Systems.

It's been a few years since my last discus tank - and things have changed a bit. I'm a molecular biologist by education, and actually did some research many, many moons ago on discus.

The tank is an in-the-wall tank between the dining room and our bedroom. It's a 215 Oceanic Brick tank (3/4" glass, no brace). I have a pair of 72" VHOs I can light with - I'm sure that my 3 x 400w Metal Halides are too much for this!

I have a drain next to the tank for water changes (wet bar), and a 100gpd RO/DI unit that is plumbed under the sink. I also have a 39g top off container under the tank, fed by the RO unit. The tank has 4 holes drilled in the bottom (yes, it's a reef tank), and a calfo overflow on one end.

Here are my thoughts so far AND I'M LOOKING FOR ADVICE, and very open to it:

Add either a 250w MH fixture, or another pair or 2 pairs of VHO.

Substrate: 10 bags of Flourite.

While I realize we aren't looking for flow like a reef tank, should I plumb the 4 holes in the bottom with a 1200gph circulation pump, and several outlets providing some flow?

From the Flouriite, you can guess I'm looking at a planted tank.

I'm thinking I'll run the overflow to a small sump (I have one), for filtration and heating - to keep the heaters out of the main tank.

I have a UV sterilizer I can hook up on a loop, if you folks think it would be beneficial.

I have an ozone unit I can also run - again, if it's beneficial.

My thoughts are that I'd run the tank fishless for a while and grow out the plantings? This tank will be very lightly stocked.

Thanks in advance,

Bill

Here's a couple of photos from before I tore my 215 down:

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z157/bstreep/IMG_2044.jpg

http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z157/bstreep/IMG_2046.jpg

[gotfish?]

i say use the holes you've already drilled. its already there so might as well use them(if anything, hides major hardware hence the sump). if your tank is tall, say ~35"+, 2x 150w MH will be sufficient or 3x 70w MH to spread lights better. if not, a good 6-8 lamps T5HO lighting fixture will be more than enough. i say keep the UV sterilizer but start using it when theres animals in the tank. i don't have experience with ozone units but if it kinda works like UV in terms of keeping the tank free of parasites and whynot...whynot? ;) i'd keep the co2 cylinder from the calcium reactor and co2 regulator(if you have one) for your plants and get or build yourself a good co2 reactor to diffuse the co2 into the tank. you will still need good flow to distribute the co2 evenly through out your big tank. the last thing you want is dead space(creates algae). also, with this much lighting and co2 i would read up on fertilization. look up dry ferts since they cost alot less than your typical liquid ferts. while waiting for your tank to mature, i dont think you would need to run your heaters(depends where you live). good luck and i cant wait to see this tank planted :)

[rickztahone]

that was a gorgeous looking tank

[yikesjason]

I have not touched salt water tanks at all, and I think a good planted tank is a lot nicer than most reefs. But that was a nice reef you had in there. I don't know MH lighting well enough to make recommendations on lighting a planted tank with them. There are a few people who do it successfully though. I would personally see what you could get selling your reef lighting and replacing it with t5ho. I am surprised that reefers still use VHO, but I would be shocked if they use them much longer. I would sell it while people are still buying it.

CO2 injection is not 100% required, but it makes it 100x easier. Even with a low tech/low light set up, having co2 makes it a lot easier to manage algae and to keep the plants looking nice. Take your time and have a good plan before you start. I have a couple of questions that might help you get started.

- Do you know what you want for discus?
- What is your budget for discus? Juvies in a planted tank is tricky, especially one as big as yours. Buying adults can be very expensive. Or, can you grow them out in a separate tank?
- Flourite is a fairly dark substrate. Have you looked into mineralized soil? You could then cap it with a light colored sand. But some discus are not as effected by darker substrates. It might go back to what kind of discus do you want.
- What kind of co2 set up do you have now? You might need to bulk up your co2 system for a planted tank.
- Do you want to run an overflow filter system or a closed loop? There are ways to minimize co2 gas off with overflows.
- What kind of plants do you want? You can do a nice tank with low light, undemanding plants, but if you want lots of colors and more variety, you will need more light, ferts, and co2. Stems will give you more color choices, but they require more trimming and maintenance. Dry ferts is really the only way to go on a tank this size.

I have 7 brilliant turquoise in a high tech planted 90 gal. But if I could, I would get San Merah for my tank. I think a dark solid red discus like that would be perfect in a planted tank.

[wesleydnunder]

Couple of things:

First, the amount of light you put on this tank is gonna determine whether you need co2 and ferts. Think of light as the gas pedal and co2 and fert as the fuel.

You can grow many plants at the 1 wpg to 2 wpg range and not have to worry about co2 or fert. Anubias, crypts, java ferns, java moss, some rotalas, hygros and others can be grown without fert and co2. In lower light set ups they'll be slower growing than with high light, co2 and fert but you'll also learn to grow plants at a pace that is pretty easily manageable.

That would be my advice. Learn to grow plants in a less demanding set up and you can always upgrade to a more aggressive regimen later. So many people dive right into hi lite/co2/fert tanks and wind up frustrated with the resulting algae farm. Balancing out a hi-tech tank can be tricky.

I use lights in the 6700K color temp. Ususally 5500K to 8000K will work nicely. Some folks use 10,000K for plants but I've tried them and have better growth with the mid-range color temps, 6500K and 6700K. Actinics and 15,000K are way too blue for plant growth, IMO.

If you do decide to get into the hi-tech set up right away, you may want to rethink your filtration. Wet/dry and sump systems tend to gas co2 off at a rapid rate, resulting in your having to use lots of co2 to get the 25 ppm to 30 ppm co2 sat most folks strive for in the hi-tech set ups.

Depending on your water's hardness, you may not need to use the RO system. Many dry fert mixes add Ca, Mg, Fe and other traces to the water for the plants to use. Stripping these elements out with an RO, only to add them back later at possibly insufficient quantities is counter-productive, or can be.

Research your plant species. Some don't do well at the elevated temps that discus need.

If you go hi-tech, you must enjoy gardening. Stems especially grow fast in these tanks and must be trimmed often to maintain the look you want. I had to trim some twice a week and the rest at least weekly.

A hi tech discus tank can be the most beautiful tank there is. I've seen some really stunning ones.

This was mine for about seven years:
http://i221.photobucket.com/albums/dd240/wesleydnunder/125Gdiscus02-16-09002.jpg

[calihawker]

Hi! Welcome to SD!

I did exactly what you're doing. Reef to planted discus and like yours, it's a large tank, 300 gallons. I can't give you expert advice because I am no expert but I'll tell you what I did and what I have since changed or would have done different.

First of all my original plan was to go totaly high tech, heavily planted, pressurized c02, auto fert dosing and w/c with controllers (what'd you use on that reef a neptune aquacontroller?;), a bank of 250 watt mh, the works. It was cool and it was fun but ultimately it was all dedicated to growing plants and what I really wanted was a discus tank with some plants. The MH from the start were excessive even with my 30" tall tank and c02. I would only use them like once a month for a few days to get some growth but if I used them all the time it was a pruning full time job and I wasn't very good at it.

I have since changed over to t5 lights and low tech dosing. A little excell some fert tabs is about it. Not nearly as heavily planted and it's way way less work so I can just kind of enjoy it now.

Wesely's right about the beauty of a hi tech planted tank. Here's mine as it looked last year but you gotta work at it. I'll have to take some pics of the low tech tank now. It's really not much different but so much less work.

Advice to some of your specific questions:

I use flourite. A little expensive but I love it.

If you're gonna go with pressurized c02 any splashing from overflows/sumps etc. will cause outgassing and you'll be using more gas to maintain c02 levels.

Hook up the uv into the loop but don't use it except if you get a green water outbreak, not very benificial otherwise.

Our good friend Chad Hughes has used ozone in his planted tank with great results.

And absolutely get the planted thing down first before adding discus. Plant it and get your cleanup crew going.

Good luck! That was a great looking reef. Can't wait to see it planted!:)





http://i499.photobucket.com/albums/rr356/calihawker/Fish/DSC01463.jpg

[bstreep]

Wow! Thanks for all of the replies and great advice.

I do NOT want to go "high tech". Been there, done that... The biggest reason I dropped my reef system was that it got WAY too hairy. And yes, I had (still have) an aqua controller.

We prefer the striped and spotted discus varieties. The Flourite I'm thinking of is black. So, if this conflicts, let me know!

I would prefer not getting too hung up on "gardening" rather than enjoying. We are out of town most weekends. So, I'm thinking of lower demand plants. I'd also rather avoid the CO2 thing - but that's not necessary. My thoughts on overflow/sump is mechanical filtration. But I now understand why that might not be best. While I have VHOs now, the ballast will drive T5s just fine - and T5 fittings are cheap. I'd rather not do the MH route, frankly.

We have the perfect water for African Cichlids - hard as a rock and alkaline. I'm in San Antonio. We do have a water softener, but that only helps some - and still leaves us with alkaline water. So, RO/DI is an option - AND it's already there. I can drop the DI part, if that makes sense.

The budget for fish isn't THAT big a deal. And, I'm in no hurry. This hobby is cheap compared to reefing... Our electric bill alone was $150 a month.

[yikesjason]

From your response, I would recommend looking at ferns, anubias, maybe some moss, swords, and crypts. Red tiger lotus might be nice too, they are probably the easiest plants to keep red.

Black substrate would look really nice with the plants. But it can really effect your discus colors, they will be dark to match their surroundings. There are some really nice albino strains that would not darken up. I would suggest getting some 4" or bigger discus of the albino persuasion.

If you have co2 already from your reef, you might as well use it. Even with your low tech tank, it will keep the plants healthier. Some nice manzanita wood for your hardscape would look great.

I am looking forward to seeing your progress.

[bstreep]

I'm just not a fan of the lighter discus colors - white and albino. Just an opinion.

Thanks for the rest of the advice.

[calihawker]

I'm just not a fan of the lighter discus colors - white and albino. Just an opinion.

Thanks for the rest of the advice.

Have you seen the golden albinos in the contest section?

[Jstuver]

I run a metal halide on my tank and it is a 60g cube with a 70watt halide. I use halide as I love the coloring it provides and the shimmer. Everytime I trade to T5 I don't like the lighting as well just my opinion.

[rickztahone]

if you buy albino's you will not need to worry about a dark substrate since they do not darken

[bstreep]

Have you seen the golden albinos in the contest section?

No. I hadn't. Until now. Now I'm late for bed...

They would certainly make me re-think my "I hate albinos" philosophy.

[yikesjason]

Check out San Merah discus. I think they look great when they darken up. I understand not being a fan of albinos, some of them just don't look natural. But there are albinos that do look better than others

[ChloroPhil]

I agree with Jason about the CO2. If you've got it, run it. It'll only benefit your plants. One thing you need to be aware of with discus is the massive nutrient load they put out. With rich food comes rich results on the other side. The high alkalinity of your water will benefit a lot of the plants Jason mentioned, but to get the best results for your buck, tack the CO2 into your system.

Do you have a Ca reactor? If so, that'll make a perfect CO2 dissolution chamber. Toss a bunch of bioballs or smallish landscape pumice in there and you're good to go.

Good luck in your new adventure!