"NEED YOUR HELP DESIGNING THE PERFECT WET/DRY FILTER"

[Steven Turitz]

Good Morning All
Well, I woke up this morning chatty.
Anyone who knows me knows that I probably went to bed last night chatty.
I’ve been told that I make a long story longer.
Anyway, I have been living on Simply Discus in an attempt to get to the next level. I am reaching out to all the “PROS”, all the “SEASONED VETERANS”, all the “THE DISCUS EXPERTS” affiliated and involved with SimplyDiscus for their input, their help, their knowledge, their experience and their opinions.
I am an “Overkill” kind of guy, so my comfort zone is to over do it and cover all the possibilities and all of the contingencies.
I am in dogged pursuit of creating the “PERFECT WET / DRY” filter system for a 200 gallon Discus Only showtank. A “PERFECT WET / DRY filter for the dedicated hobbyist with 1 tank, not a fishroom full of tanks.
I am planning to build this wet/dry filter system on a Lifereef LF2 – 300 platform (link attached). http://www.lifereef.com/frame.html
I will have the manufacturer customize this filter as follows:
The sides (actually the whole basic sump box) will be 12” higher, thereby raising the two bio-ball towers 12” higher than they are in the illustration. With the towers sitting 12” higher there will now be a space approximately 16”underneath the bio-ball towers that will be completely filled with submerged “PORET FILTER FOAM” or “MATALA FILTER MEDIA”.
This design I believe will satisfy those of the belief that completely submerged filter media for biological action is preferential to only wet, oxygenated filter media like bio-balls in the towers.
This design may seem redundant having two sections for biological action, one section being the two bio-ball towers and the other section being the completely submerged section underneath/below the towers. I’m under the impression, more is better. Am I correct? Does anyone see a downside to this design?

I am also thinking of having a 36” cylinder constructed on the top of each tower which will each house a 32” 100 micron sock which will function as a prefilter. Each overflow output from the tank (two overflows in total) will feed directly into one of these cylinder prefilters first, before it passes on and hits the drip plate and travels through the tower connected to that overflow.
So in summary the water flow from the tank (there are two pre-drilled overflows) is:
1) into the 36” prefilter cylinder (with 32” 100 micron sock)
2) onto the drip plate
3) through the oxygenated bio-ball tower
4) through the completely submerged filter media (submerged “PORET FILTER FOAM” or “MATALA FILTER MEDIA”
5) back into the tank

NOTE: I will have the resin cylinders in place but will not initially utilize them.
I’m told that “they are magnets that hold the impurities in the
system, preventing water changes from removing them”.

Please take the time to read this thread and to understand my design. I truly want all those in the know to feel free to advise, interject, add onto, or Simply direct me otherwise and down a different avenue completely.
Once all the feedback is crunched, I will have the final wet/dry design custom built, integrated it into my overall plan, and I will share all results with the Community.

And finally, Poret or Matala?

Thank you,
Steve

[dbfzurowski]

HEY,
planted tank or what?

[Darrell Ward]

Why not make it easy. Either one of the sump designs drawn up by the Poret Foam Guy will work great, and are super easy to construct. Hans, uses a similar design for some of his setups, and he has a warehouse full of tanks. Check out the Swiss tropicals website.

[jeff@zina.com]

I am planning to build this wet/dry filter system on a Lifereef LF2 – 300 platform...

You've already deviated from my opinion of the perfect wet/dry filter, so I can't be of much help here.

Jeff

[Darrell Ward]

You don't need all that stuff. It's just more maintenance than is necessary. All those canisters with the Lifeguard system are APITA. I had one of those overpriced things years ago. Keep your filters simple, and come up with a good water changing system, and you'll be way better off. You don't need state of the art filtration with discus. Water changes are better than any filtration system ever made. Spend the money on better fish.

[acroken]

I agree 100% with Darrell. All the equipment, electricity, replacement filter material and labor to do so is not worth what a good water change routine will yield you. Plus if i am doing maintenance, i would rater be in the tank watching and inspecting the fish not filter material.KISS-IMHO


Kenny

[tcyiu]

I’m under the impression, more is better. Am I correct? Does anyone see a downside to this design?

Up to a point this is correct. Once the bio filter capacity exceeds your discus' ability to poop, the extra capacity is just a waste (if you'll excuse the pun).

And more importantly, the trickle filter will NOT remove any significant amount of nitrates. That would require a specialized denitrifier, and water with zero oxygen. Which is of course the exact opposite of what a trickle filter will produce - highly aerated water. So you'll still need to change water every few days.

As Darrell said, the bells and whistles just means more maintenance.

Tim

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Steve, shoot me an email: Orlandodiscus@gmail.com and i'll email you some sketches of my perfect "wet/dry"........for inquiring minds, Google: Moving Bed Bio Reactor :)

-Ryan

[nc0gnet0]

While I agree that daily water changes may be the best overall, that doesn't change the fact that a good filtration system is always better than a mrginal one. Heaven forbid you should have to leave town for 3-5 days and have an underpowered filtration system.

Can I ask is your wet/dry going on a predrilled tank with internal overflow? Search over at monsterfishkeepers and search for "turf algea scrubber' if nitrate removal is a concern.

My DIY wet/dry is run off an internal overflow with dual 1" pvc feeds into 25 micron socks. This fills the first chamber until it overflows onto a trickle plate that is at a 30 degree downward incline over the second chamber that is filled with bio-balls resting ontop of dual airstones. The water then travels into the thrid chamber which hoses two rio 2500 pumps that pump 900 GPH each into there own omin 5 micron filter, then into dual 18watt UV sterilzers and finally back into the tank. Changing the micron socks takes me all of 2 minutes and can be re-used almost indefinately.

[Fons_van_der_Hart]

Steve, shoot me an email: Orlandodiscus@gmail.com and i'll email you some sketches of my perfect "wet/dry"........for inquiring minds, Google: Moving Bed Bio Reactor :)

-Ryan

Now this is something that really helps you in desiging the perfect filter.
You might also google on Fluidised sand bed filter.

[wanderingfish]

what about this kind of wet/dry filter?http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=75334

i'll write some experience about how to make it.

[wanderingfish]

what about this kind of wet/dry filter?http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=75334

i'll write some experience about how to make it.it's extremely easy and cheap to bulid it.

[wanderingfish]

I'v write something on how to build a tidal wet/dry filter.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=75334

[Steven Turitz]

HEY,
planted tank or what?

Dominik
Lightly planted
Steve

[Steven Turitz]

All the equipment, electricity, replacement filter material and labor to do so is not worth what a good water change routine will yield you.

Kenny

Thank You Kenny
I agree !!!!!
The pursuit of this "PERFECT WET/DRY FILTER" is not in lieu of water changes, it is in addition to regular water changes at whatever interval is required to maintain perfect water quality conditions.
Keeping it simple is always a good premise, but, I prefer to challenge myself, think outside the box, push the envelope. I'm a gadget kind of guy. I like to design intricate systems (whether for business or this "Discus Journey') that hopefully make something good - better. As resources are not an issue I will still be able to acquire top Discus stock. With that being said, what do you think of the design I initially posted?
Steve

[Steven Turitz]

Up to a point this is correct. Once the bio filter capacity exceeds your discus' ability to poop, the extra capacity is just a waste (if you'll excuse the pun).

And more importantly, the trickle filter will NOT remove any significant amount of nitrates. That would require a specialized denitrifier, and water with zero oxygen. Which is of course the exact opposite of what a trickle filter will produce - highly aerated water. So you'll still need to change water every few days.

Tim

If the extra capacity bio filter capacity is excessive and "just a waste", will it do any harm or just not be of any benefit?
I assume that the extra capacity will permit me to have a larger shoal of Discus, as oversized
bio filter capacity will be utilized proportionately to the amount of ammonia waste produced.

I do know that nitrates need to be removed from the system with water changes.
The pursuit of this "PERFECT WET/DRY FILTER" is not in lieu of water changes, it is in addition to regular water changes at whatever interval is required to maintain perfect water quality conditions.

In addition, I was planning on installing an Aquaripure Nitrate Filter to the wet/dry system at the very end of the tricke filter that would filter the water in the final sump area of water being returned to the tank to remove nitrates.
What do you think?
I value the knowledge and experience of each and every one of you and appreciate all your input.
Thanks
Steve

[Steven Turitz]

While I agree that daily water changes may be the best overall, that doesn't change the fact that a good filtration system is always better than a mrginal one.

My sentiments exactly. I couldn't have said it more eloquently.

[Steven Turitz]

Can I ask is your wet/dry going on a predrilled tank with internal overflow? Search over at monsterfishkeepers and search for "turf algea scrubber' if nitrate removal is a concern.



Predrilled with 2 internal overflows

[Steven Turitz]

My DIY wet/dry is run off an internal overflow with dual 1" pvc feeds into 25 micron socks. This fills the first chamber until it overflows onto a trickle plate that is at a 30 degree downward incline over the second chamber that is filled with bio-balls resting ontop of dual airstones. The water then travels into the thrid chamber which hoses two rio 2500 pumps that pump 900 GPH each into there own omin 5 micron filter, then into dual 18watt UV sterilzers and finally back into the tank. Changing the micron socks takes me all of 2 minutes and can be re-used almost indefinately.

I'd love to see a picture and a sketch

[Steven Turitz]

I'v write something on how to build a tidal wet/dry filter.
http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=75334

I read your thread.
"the main maintenance work is daily waterchange".
I cannot possible make this "Discus Journey" if it includes daily water changes.
Every Saturday morning is way more viable for me taking into account my business obligations.
That's why I need to create "THE PERFECT WET/DRY DISCUS FILTER" to maintain water conditions throughout the week.
Steve

[Steven Turitz]

All those canisters with the Lifeguard system are APITA.

Darrell
I believe you are confusing the Lifeguard (separate) canister(s) system with the Lifereef LF2-300.
Steve

[Kingdom Come Discus]

I don't like the mechanical sock filter. Too much waste collected in a small area. The water has no choice but to keep flowing through all the collected waste. I prefer micron filter fabric laid over a flat surface such as egg crate. I use different size plastic tubs for my mechanical filters, 8 inches x 12 inches works well for a 75 gallon tank. I support the horizontal egg crate with vertical pieces of egg crate and zip tie it all together. The horizontal egg crate, placed level, sits about two inches below the rim of the plastic tub and the filter fabric laps up to form a pan. As the debris collects on the fabric the water flows through a cleaner section of the fabric instead of forcing the water to flow through all the debris as with the typical sock mechanical filter. I change and wash the fabric daily. I also recommend the book Aquatic Systems Engineering: Devices and How They Function by P.R Escobal?

[Darrell Ward]

Darrell
I believe you are confusing the Lifeguard (separate) canister(s) system with the Lifereef LF2-300.
Steve

You're right. I noticed it later, but let it go, since you didn't seem interested in the more simple systems anyway. :) Not criticizing at all. It's just that experience has taught me with filtration, the simpler the better. The more parts and pieces, the more likely something will go wrong, and it will only happen when you're out of town. Hope it works out for you.

[wanderingfish]

I do daily w/c because it's overcrowded.I breed many discus fishes myself. there are tens of fishes in a 250l tank.If it's stocked properly,I don't think it need do daily w/c at all.