biotope lighting question

[3dees]

I have asked this on 2 planted tank forums and no answers. i will be getting a 120 gal (48x24x24) tank in a week or so. I am planning on a amazon biotope with sand, stumps and manzanita branches. the only plants will be frogbit. this will be a rimless and open top. I am looking at Catalina's green light. it has 2 HOt5 54watt and 2 rows of led"s for shimmer effect, and will be hung over the tank. my question is will I have algea problems without any plants besides the frogbit ? I could add a little pennyworth and/or a couple of bn plecos. I am just worried that I will have tons of algea with no plants.
Anyone?

[Darrell Ward]

IMO, that's way too much light, and yes, you will probably get some algae with that lighting. A regular, single bulb florescent strip light would be a better choice. I have a tank that is 48"x 24"x 30", and the regular 48" light that came with the tank is more than enough for the tank. The great part is you can get one for around $60 or so with bulb. The only way you would need more light is if you had plants that required a lot of light, or a fully planted tank. If you are going to have an open tank, I would place a piece of glass or Plexiglas between the bulb and the open water for safety.

[3dees]

thank you. I was thinking that between the floating plants and raising the fixture I could get away with it. I'm afraid that with only one bulb there won't be enough light front to back being that it's a wide tank. maybe I could ask Catalina to install NOt5"s instead of HO. Think that will still be too much light? I am considering this light because of the led's. they say they are equal to 175 mh but I kind of doubt that. I come from sw tanks and I really like the shimmer effect.

[Darrell Ward]

You can light that tank easily for what you want with 40 to 50 watts. One 40 watt 48" tube will light it no problem. Front to back, side to side, up and down, whatever. With a little surface agitation, you would still get a bit of light shimmer no matter what fixture you use, especially if you only fill the tank to within a couple inches from the top. If you want led lights on your fixture, you can always add a led kit to almost any fixture a lot cheaper that paying hundreds for a fixture you don't really need just to get a few led lights. An Amazon biotope is not a high light tank anyway because Amazon waters are stained, and visibility poor. This is a 150 gal. I have that is the same size as the tank you want, except this tank is 30" deep. It has 1- 40 watt tube lighting it. It's plenty bright.

[yikesjason]

With the frogbit growing on top of the tank, it will reduce the light getting to the rest of the tank. Also, frogbit will take up a lot of nutrients. 2x54 would be great on your tank. The LEDs are a bit more of a question mark. I don't know a whole lot about them. But with floating plants, you are going to lose the shimmer effect you are looking for.

My recommendation is the Catalina 3x54w light. It is a great price and a lot of flexibility. You can use 1, 2, or 3 lights at a time. If you want to move to more plants, you don't have to get another light. But this fixture is such a good price that it isn't much more than the lower light fixture.

[3dees]

thanks for the replies guys. I really want led's. I know they can be added but I am not the greatest with anything electric. last week I tried to change a light fixture and somehow blew up my desk top computer. Darrell, I was looking at that same tank at Petsmart but at 5'5" I'd need scuba gear. Your tank has a lot of light but would it be as much 10 inches above with floating plants? Tank will have branches sticking out of top so hanging the light is a must. If I don't like the looks I can add a few plants and at 24 inches deep I don't think your light would be enough, but I could be wrong. I was hoping that the frogbit would suck up enough nutrients to let me get by without a major algea problem. Thanks again.

[Darrell Ward]

thanks for the replies guys. I really want led's. I know they can be added but I am not the greatest with anything electric. last week I tried to change a light fixture and somehow blew up my desk top computer. Darrell, I was looking at that same tank at Petsmart but at 5'5" I'd need scuba gear. Your tank has a lot of light but would it be as much 10 inches above with floating plants? Tank will have branches sticking out of top so hanging the light is a must. If I don't like the looks I can add a few plants and at 24 inches deep I don't think your light would be enough, but I could be wrong. I was hoping that the frogbit would suck up enough nutrients to let me get by without a major algea problem. Thanks again.

I suppose you can get away with using that light if you're dead set about hanging it above the tank. Hanging it will scatter out a lot of light before it reaches the tank. However, it seems like a really inefficient way to light the tank to me, as it wastes both money buying higher powered fixtures, and electricity to power it, not to mention a huge amount of evaporation from an open top tank. Having a larger open top tank can lead to black mold issues in the tank room without a dehumidifer, even more expense. Been there, already dealt with all that when I had a 240 gal. open planted tank. Good luck on the project. I would enjoy seeing pictures when it is finished. :)

[waters10]

I agree with Jason that the 3xT5HO from Catalina is awesome! I love mine! But I do think it's too much light for your tank, unless you're gonna cover the whole tank with floaters. T5HO are really bright and will cause algae if you don't balance things well ...

[3dees]

yes, thats what I fear. I wonder if the led's would be enough and just run the t5's for a few hours for the frogbit. I am thinking angels and tetras but might change my mind and go with discus instead. I have had fresh and sw reef tanks and my last tank was a 46 gal heavily planted running C02. Never again. I think high tech tanks are more work than reefs. this will be my first try at low tech kind of biotope. I know the look I want, I just don't want to start an algea farm.

[yikesjason]

I love open top tanks with suspended lights. If you don't mind spending the extra money for that LED fixture, then go for it. With it suspended, you can control the intensity and shouldn't have much problem.

[waters10]

Never again. I think high tech tanks are more work than reefs.
Why is that? Constant trimming?

Like Jason said, you could raise the fixture higher to avoid algae, but it doesn't seem like you're ever going back to a heavily planted tank, so it might be a waste of money ...

[yikesjason]

I think a lot of low tech tanks gradually move toward becoming high tech. If he really wants the LEDs and doesn't mind spending the money, I say go for it. It is not like this is a cheap hobby to start with. If a tank has $1,000 worth of fish, why can't someone have a $400 LED fixture if it is what they want.

[3dees]

waters 10, yes it's the constant trimming. I could'nt believe anything could grow that fast. plus the dosing and trying to keep everything balanced. except for water changes salt water is easier although a lot more expensive. I'm hoping with this set up except for water changes and a little clean up I can just sit back and enjoy.

[Harriett]

Am I assuming that this will be a tank for discus? You are getting plenty of feedback on lighting, but the thing that stuck for me is that this is to be an open top tank. You are aware that discus jump out of tanks when they can, right?
Harriett

[3dees]

well, it's for either discus or altum angels. I'm a little worried about altums as it's hit or miss on the quality of the fish since they are all wild. discus can jump but many discus keepers have open tops. I think with the frogbit and low lights I'll be ok. I had an angel tank years ago with hatchett fish in an open top and never lost one. as this will be a rimless tank I don't think I could get a top anyway. thanks for the reply. I will be asking more questions if I decide on discus. I have never kept them but I am leaning that way. I hope I could get 8-10 from one of the sponsers here. I want a show tank. not interested in breeding.

[waters10]

waters 10, yes it's the constant trimming. I could'nt believe anything could grow that fast. plus the dosing and trying to keep everything balanced. except for water changes salt water is easier although a lot more expensive. I'm hoping with this set up except for water changes and a little clean up I can just sit back and enjoy.
hmmm. Maybe I should rethink my strategy of going high tech! :D Not planning to do this anytime soon anyway ...

And yes, discus can jump. I lost 2 that way and I caught a third one on the carpet, with no damage. And this was with glass tops ...

[yikesjason]

hmmm. Maybe I should rethink my strategy of going high tech! :D Not planning to do this anytime soon anyway ...

And yes, discus can jump. I lost 2 that way and I caught a third one on the carpet, with no damage. And this was with glass tops ...

High tech doesn't have to be filled with fast growing plants. That way it doesn't take that much trim time. I spend around an hour once a week doing a water change and trim. Sometimes it takes longer if I want to make some changes or do a bigger trim, sometimes it doesn't take as long when I am in a hurry.

[exv152]

One additional point regarding the HOt5's, you may like the shimmer effect but discus may not. I would reduce the lighting for sure if you're not doing CO2 and ferts, and like Darrell said; an amazon biotope is supposed to be darker. Higher lighting can cause stress to your discus.

[3dees]

yes I agree that this biotope should have low light but were not talking 500watts. except for the led's it's only 108 watts in a 120 gal and I guess I can remove one bulb if need be. with it being raised 10 - 12 inches I can't see it being that much of a problem. then again I thought a heavily planted tank would be a cake walk but I had nothing but problems trying to keep it balanced. I gave up on it a few years ago because of a nerve problem in my back so I have not had a tank since. back is better now but I want to try something different this time. I guess I'll have to just do it and see where it takes me. Thanks to all of you for the help.

[exv152]

If you don't get any algae, or very little, then you know you're doing something right.

[waters10]

yes I agree that this biotope should have low light but were not talking 500watts. except for the led's it's only 108 watts in a 120 gal and I guess I can remove one bulb if need be. with it being raised 10 - 12 inches I can't see it being that much of a problem. then again I thought a heavily planted tank would be a cake walk but I had nothing but problems trying to keep it balanced. I gave up on it a few years ago because of a nerve problem in my back so I have not had a tank since. back is better now but I want to try something different this time. I guess I'll have to just do it and see where it takes me. Thanks to all of you for the help.
Considering you had a high tech tank before, you probably know this, but T5HO with quality reflectors is a lot more light than older types of bulbs, even power compacts. I had a lot of algae with 1 54w on my 85g tank, low/medium planted.

I still think a single bulb is more appropriate for a biotope tank. Don't know much about LED's though.

[nikond70s]

for an amazon theme, the less light the better. as light is not important since you will not have any plants in it besides frogbits. so i would just get something as cheap as possible. and yes T5 lights are a lot stronger than other kind of lights. i just changed my tank into amazon biotope from planted and i love it. i keep altums and discus in the tank and they look awesome in these kind of biotope.

[3dees]

nikond70s, love the name. I have a d70 that I had converted to infrared. I use a D300 for normal light. You just changed to S.A.? can you tell me where you got your Altums? I heard that this years crop so far are pretty bad. I'm a little scared to invest that kind of money which is the reason I'm now considering discus. Any pics of your tank?

[3dees]

just got off the phone with Catalina. great guy. they are going to put an extra switch so I can use 1 or 2 of the T5's at no charge. also threw in hanging set for free. hows that for customer service.

[waters10]

just got off the phone with Catalina. great guy. they are going to put an extra switch so I can use 1 or 2 of the T5's at no charge. also threw in hanging set for free. hows that for customer service.
They do have good customer service. Did you order over the phone? I think that's the best way. They shipped the wrong bulbs when I order online and I put comments detailing what i wanted. They ended up shipping the correct bulbs at no cost, so I can't complain.

[yikesjason]

just got off the phone with Catalina. great guy. they are going to put an extra switch so I can use 1 or 2 of the T5's at no charge. also threw in hanging set for free. hows that for customer service.

I had a great experience with Catalina as well. So, you did get the LEDs? I am sure a lot of people will be wanting to know how they work out for you. LEDs seem to be the next big thing, but the knowledge base isn't there yet for people to be very comfortable with them.

[3dees]

Yes I got the led's. Can't find much info on it so I guess I'll be the one with the review. Talked to the guy for 20 min. Wish all companies were like this. Went out today for the tank. I can't even get a price from 3 different places.They all have to call thier reps to see who makes them and what price. I'm thinking of just getting a 90 but I really wanted the extra 6 inches
I don't think I'll be able to reach the bottom of a 150. Guess I'll wait to see what up with the 120.

[Darrell Ward]

Yes I got the led's. Can't find much info on it so I guess I'll be the one with the review. Talked to the guy for 20 min. Wish all companies were like this. Went out today for the tank. I can't even get a price from 3 different places.They all have to call thier reps to see who makes them and what price. I'm thinking of just getting a 90 but I really wanted the extra 6 inches
I don't think I'll be able to reach the bottom of a 150. Guess I'll wait to see what up with the 120.

Little folding step stools are required for deep tanks. I'm 6' tall, and have two 30" deep tanks that require "a little boost". The extra depth looks cool though, and fish seem to enjoy it, especially discus.

[yikesjason]

If you have to decide between a 150 or a 90, go with the 150.

[nikond70s]

nikond70s, love the name. I have a d70 that I had converted to infrared. I use a D300 for normal light. You just changed to S.A.? can you tell me where you got your Altums? I heard that this years crop so far are pretty bad. I'm a little scared to invest that kind of money which is the reason I'm now considering discus. Any pics of your tank?

nice camera too! my next upgrade will be the d700. yeah i just switch my tank to S.A from fully planted. havent taken pics yet. but ill post pics later on and post it in the gallery section.

its hard to get altums now because its not yet altum season. it starts in july. you can find plenty of them. and yes they are hard to keep. but once you keep them alive for a few months then they're just as hardy as any other angels. only hard part is acclimating them. dont be in a rush to buy them. its best to let the seller keep them for atleast an month then buy them. i know they run out quick and you have to be fast. but you rather have healthy ones than ones that dies on you. its important to ask the seller how long they had it for...are they eating and what they're eating. be sure to get more than you intended cuz chances are some of them are gonna die. and be sure to ask for pics and make sure you know if they are true altums or not. because people sell false altums.