Planted tank...where to go from here :-( :-( feel like giving up

[toomanyfish]

Hi all
Writing this feeling really low and after not having slept much.
I recently setup this annubias only tank after getting bitten by the small fish and plant bug.here are the specifics
Tank 3 18 18
Sand Quartz
Light 2 pll's 36w
Filter a 2217

The tank has been having issues since the time i started.first i had kept low lights so the plants started turning yellow.then i siwtched to pll's and started dosing.Potassium NItrate and POtassium Sulphate 1/2 tea spoon and phosphate 1/8 teaspoon and micros 4ml twice a week
Now i have started getting this brown algae on the wood and the leaves.it comes off very easily but its there quite a bit.
I know annubias are small growers there are lots of new leaves but then it stays just there.the leaves form but dont open and bloom.
Now here is what i have been thinking,
Option 1
I restart the tank completely.Introduce some more plants like more varieties of annubias fers crypts moss.Also add a pressurized co2 kit.Shift the fish to another tank and keep it without fish for a couple of months.
Option 2
I remove the plants from the tank.Add some leaf litter and dim the lights to next to nothing and make it a biotype of sorts.Add discus.
Option 3
Kepp it the way it is and hope some miracle takes place and the plant makes a recovery.Add DIY co2 if required.
Need help here.i know they sound like knee jerk reactions but its been this way since over 2 months.
Hamza

[Wahter]

One thing you need to figure out is why are you dosing all of those fertilizers? Are you sure your water deficient in those areas? You need to observe the nutrient shortages being shown on the plants and then dose accordingly. Otherwise, you could be throwing fuel into the fire (where algae is concerned). For instance, if you had sword plants and their new leaves were all growing contorted, the water might need calcium added. If you know anyone else in your area keeping aquatic plants, ask them what they do. I think most of the aquarium shops I have visited don't know how to care for plants (in fact, they often sell non-aquatic plants as aquarium plants!), so you might want to take their advice with a grain of salt.

The brown alage sounds like diatom/ silcate algae. Otocinclus will feast on that easily. That usually shows up on newly established tanks.

There are some good webpages on algea in the aquarium (with tips on what to do to get rid of them):

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_freshwater_algae.php
http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/algae-in-the-planted-aquarium/

Keeping a nice planted tank involves a lot of balancing of lighting, nutrients, etc... (and for some people, injecting CO2).

Hope that helps,


Walter

[rickztahone]

One thing you need to figure out is why are you dosing all of those fertilizers? Are you sure your water deficient in those areas? You need to observe the nutrient shortages being shown on the plants and then dose accordingly. Otherwise, you could be throwing fuel into the fire (where algae is concerned). For instance, if you had sword plants and their new leaves were all growing contorted, the water might need calcium added. If you know anyone else in your area keeping aquatic plants, ask them what they do. I think most of the aquarium shops I have visited don't know how to care for plants (in fact, they often sell non-aquatic plants as aquarium plants!), so you might want to take their advice with a grain of salt.

The brown alage sounds like diatom/ silcate algae. Otocinclus will feast on that easily. That usually shows up on newly established tanks.

There are some good webpages on algea in the aquarium (with tips on what to do to get rid of them):

http://www.aquahobby.com/articles/e_freshwater_algae.php
http://gwapa.org/wordpress/articles/algae-in-the-planted-aquarium/

Keeping a nice planted tank involves a lot of balancing of lighting, nutrients, etc... (and for some people, injecting CO2).

Hope that helps,


Walter

Walter has some great points. when i started my tank i had some of the same problems, the brown spots on the leaves which rub off easily. As the plants started taking root they started to become healthier. i do use dry fertz as well in accordance to what my water deficiencies are (helped by another member in this department). since you have the anubias tied off i say just wait a while to see if they adjust. if not then i would definitely start looking at lighting/ water parameters and possibly co2 injection. i would research the co2 heavily before taking the leap though. i hope some of this helped.

[stephcps]

I think you're tank looks great! Anubias are very slow growers...I mean slow. If you want more "instant gratification" Add some other things that will grow a little quicker and make you feel as if you have accomplished something. All of my plants are low light. I hve several anubias and they grow, but it's like you only really notice after a few months. My crypts grow like crazy, my pennywort grows like crazy, my hormowrt grows like crazy. They all let me know everything is good.

The brown algae that scrapes off is nothing to worry about. Get some plecos or Otos. I agree sounds like you are working too hard with the ferts!

Steph

[toomanyfish]

so what should the dosage be for this tank?i also dose trace elements 4 ml twice a week....thanks you guys am getting a bit encouraged with your posts.do you think diy co2 is the way to go?i cant afford a pressurized system for a while and i think that some carbon is better than no carbon?
I have also ordered for 12 otos.will add them as soon as i get them

[stephcps]

I don't use any co2. Just another thing to think about for me!! I just have plants that are easy and grow well for me in water chemistry. It was some trial and error at first, but now I'm happy with no ferts and no co2. I dosed with liquid ferts initially, but had wicked algae issues. Stopped ferts algae got better. It really is all you want to put into it. From what I've read Co2 only seems a benefit if you have tons of high light plants. If I were gonna do Co2 with discus I would use a regulator. The DIY seems unpredictable.

Steph

[srusso]

so what should the dosage be for this tank?i also dose trace elements 4 ml twice a week....thanks you guys am getting a bit encouraged with your posts.do you think diy co2 is the way to go?i cant afford a pressurized system for a while and i think that some carbon is better than no carbon?
I have also ordered for 12 otos.will add them as soon as i get them

Lighting: Get it to 1 - 2 watts per gallon ( Are they 6500K? ) If not, change...
Ferts: Stop... none (root tabs if you had other plants) I do use liquid a little...
Co2: No....
Carbon: Yeah, a good amount, keeps the water clear and removes odor
Plants: I would get more, like melon swords... or java moss

A Power head may help, get it to make the smallest, tinniest bubbles you can get, this should keep the plants happy at night, they need oxygen at night too. (You will need more air with discus, my plants still seem happy)

Do 30-40% water changes every other day till most of the clears... besure the temp is in the ~76f for now... then slowly turn it up before discus.

Lastly do all the reading you can on "Low Tech" tanks...

PS. Take a look at my photo albums, I have a 55gal low tech planted tank... its not jaw dropping but I think its nice. :D

[korbi_doc]

I think your tank looks great!! Maybe you are expecting to much from slow growers....I had that brown silt also, but it's gone now with plecs & loaches....you've gotten great advice...hope I can do as well with my new plants, just adding more to my big tank, & have added better light...BTW...love that driftwood piece!!

Dottie

[rickztahone]

Be careful with the otts. Ive tried twice to introduce them into my tank and twice they stuck to my discus

[toomanyfish]

thanks a lot for the great advice given.
When i meant carbon i meant co2.no the water is crystal clear and there is no odour.
Otos..well to clean out the algae.I once again wanna say that am NOT sure about putting discus in this tank.I have been lucky enough to make space for a 225g discus tank which would go ahead after this tank settles down.
Otos should be here in a couple of days.I will order maybe narrow leaf java fern regular java fern windlov and some more annubias.
Lights are around 1.5w per gallon.not sure about the K though
I cant introduce pleco in the tank as they would scrape the paint right off the backdrop.
Hamza

[srusso]

...Lights are around 1.5w per gallon.not sure about the K though...
Hamza

That explains it all not knowing the kelvin of your lighting will/could make the difference in your success and failure...

If you didn't specifically get "plant lights" then most likely they aren't the right lights for a plant tank. 6500K is the way to go for a standard planted tank. That would explain the leaves not growing/opening. All other "normal" lights will do is grow algae...

[toomanyfish]

thanks...ill look around for 6500k lights.the problem is that the 6500k lights are just 20 w so i would need to fit in around 4 which is a bit hard in such a small place.
Also tell me..how bad is DIY co2?i mean if its really that bad then why do some people use it.i still cant get over the cost factor and how cheap diy co2would be to run.
Hamza

[srusso]

thanks...ill look around for 6500k lights.the problem is that the 6500k lights are just 20 w so i would need to fit in around 4 which is a bit hard in such a small place.
Also tell me..how bad is DIY co2?i mean if its really that bad then why do some people use it.i still cant get over the cost factor and how cheap diy co2would be to run.
Hamza

What kind of light ballast do you have? You may have to replace it... DIY Co2 is not "bad"... its just unstable... at night plants stop using Co2, and start using oxygen... you can see how injecting Co2 with a DIY system that does not stop at night like the ones with timers etc can get dangerous. Co2 also makes your pH drop and without a way to control how much goes in you also can see how this makes DIY Co2 a little crazy. I have done the DIY Co2 tuts found on the internet, they work very well for the plants... not so much for the fish... I would never use discus and a DIY Co2, I was successful with a kribensis tank doing so... but its a load of extra work, and checking/testing water. :o but it can be done...

Ps... your barking up the wrong tree with the Co2... just my .02 cents fix your lights

[toomanyfish]

thanks again for the advice.i have bought the 6500k lights will change the lights tonight though they dont look any different from the ones i already have.so ill change and see.
Ya ill stop thinking about co2.for the record i have still not thought about adding discus to this tank and it will remain a tetra tank till the plants stabalize.
Also i have ordered some java fern some narrow leaf java fern and some more varieties of annubias.lets see how it goes.figure more plants are better then less.

[Yassmeena]

Hi,

I think first of all, your tank is very nice!!!!

You should not change it around, but give it time to settle in.

The peoblems you are having are easy to fix.

- I think you can dose excel instead of dry fertz. It may be easier to balance. It is more expensive though.

- Java would be a nice addition.

- Add a BN pleco or some amano shrimp to clean off the brown spots on the algae.

HTH

Yasmin

[Foxfire]

Carbon: Yeah, a good amount, keeps the water clear and removes odor:D

I have read a lot on this and think carbon is bad for a number of reasons (to use regularly) since most types add some amount of phosphorous to the water which really helps algae. For smell, I found that German peat works wonders (in the filter instead of carbon) and has the added benifit that it softens the water (some) and lowers the ph (again, some.) Some experts also say that peat adds trace components that can help discus.

That is my take.

[toomanyfish]

thanks everyone for your replies.
there is no smell issue in the tank.so adding carbon is not required.by carbon i meant carbondioxide.
i have got a lot of new plants and also a couple of ferns.will add them and post pics.
Hamza

[jballauer]

You do have slow growers, so keep that in mind.

Fertilizers don't do much if you don't have light and CO2...those are the basic requirements that determine resource consumption and growth rates. By putting more ferts in than you need, you encourage algae.

So, it depends on what you want to do. For faster growth, adding CO2, DIY or otherwise, will correct the imbalance. More light wouldn't hurt either. Adding both will increase your plants metabolism to the point where they actually need the ferts you are providing.

Otherwise, back off on the ferts and be happy with a slower growing, but healthy plants.

[Foxfire]

One minor point that might help - if you run a bubble strip at night, much of the CO2 will be flushed out; this could help solve the problem of a continuous CO2 system, maybe.

[toomanyfish]

Usually i always drop in an air stone when am running a diy co2 in any of my tanks..so that helps to a certain extent.Also there are no plans to introduce discus in this tank as of now..might increase the number of tetras though.
Also i cant afford a pressurized kit for about 2 months for now..so its either diy co2 or no co2.also i have updated the tank a little.my wife suggested me a couple of changes and bought me 25 annubias plants as a birthday gift :) so have added that.the tank looks awesome right now so dont want it to slip from here.
Also next week am travelling for 4 days.the tank gets just a little bit of light from a window across.should that be enough or should i leave on a 2 foot 20w tube on for all the days am not here or no lights at all?
Hamza

[jball1125]

I would buy a timer. They really come in handy and aren't that expensive. Would love to see some updated pics when you have a chance. Also would you share with us how u are tying the anubias to the wood?

[toomanyfish]

have updated the pics in another post in the same forum