Getting Started

[FishkeeperforLife]

Thought I would journal my new modest set up.

29 gallon tank with hood and light
undergravel filter and hang on power filter
100w heater
very large piece of driftwood
plastic plants and decorative windmill.
air pump
mag float glass cleaner
fish food
painted back glass black

Started the cycle a week and half ago with four hardy danios. What you think so far? :D

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture585-1.jpg?t=1273160472

[amunoz7]

That's a nice setup. Is it going to be a Discus tank?

[FishkeeperforLife]

Thats the plan, will add three Cory cats when nitrites hit zero, then 12 cardinal tetras with a few glow tetras; after they settle in, the shopping will begin for three juvenile discus.

[FishkeeperforLife]

Added a piece of slate and a no fishing sign and did a little tweaking of the layout.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture588.jpg?t=1273178910

[amunoz7]

For raising Juvies I would really recommend a BB tank. Just easier to keep clean. IMO

[FishkeeperforLife]

For raising Juvies I would really recommend a BB tank. Just easier to keep clean. IMO

Well I have no idea what size I'll be able to get yet, it's a work in progress.
:D

[Darrell Ward]

Sorry, but that's not a tank you want to keep discus in. Three discus is a mistake. They will fight 24/7. Discus need to be in groups. 5 or 6 is a group, not 3. A 29 gal. is too small. You need at least a 55 gal. Gravel is perhaps the worst thing you can put in a discus tank, as it's extremely difficult to keep clean as new. I think you need to do more research about discus before you go any further. Good luck.

[FishkeeperforLife]

Sorry, but that's not a tank you want to keep discus in. Three discus is a mistake. They will fight 24/7. Discus need to be in groups. 5 or 6 is a group, not 3. A 29 gal. is too small. You need at least a 55 gal. Gravel is perhaps the worst thing you can put in a discus tank, as it's extremely difficult to keep clean as new. I think you need to do more research about discus before you go any further. Good luck.

I have a 55 gallon tank setting empty, if this is the case then I'll go one discus in the 29 gallon, keeping the tank gravel clean will no be a problem. Research I'm doing, thank you very much for your input, I hope others will ring in too.

[kitykatfunkiehat]

I second Darrell. Why only one discus in the 29? Thats not very wise either. In the 55 you should be able to put at least 5 or 6 at one time! After properly cycled of course (and most would recommend you do the fishless cycle too).

[Spardas]

I have a 55 gallon tank setting empty, if this is the case then I'll go one discus in the 29 gallon, keeping the tank gravel clean will no be a problem. Research I'm doing, thank you very much for your input, I hope others will ring in too.

If 55 isn't the option in the next few months, then you can do a pair in the 29. However, I strongly advise that you loose the gravel and the UGF.

If it's a pair, then they're both sub adults or adults already. This would mean less feeding intervals needed and cleaner water and less water changes.

Unless you're getting like 1-1.5 inches juveniles to raise for a month or two before the move to the 55 gallons tank; it's best not to get juveniles for the 29 with the gravel and UGF.

[FishkeeperforLife]

Maybe but the undergravel has got a bad rap, but for now it stays, I'll give two discus a try maybe if that sounds more reasonable. My main concern right now is water quality so I'll be buying some new test strips tomorrow and begin water testing. Thanks for the input and please bare with me and we will have some patience with the project and see how it goes.

[waters10]

Maybe but the undergravel has got a bad rap, but for now it stays, I'll give two discus a try maybe if that sounds more reasonable. My main concern right now is water quality so I'll be buying some new test strips tomorrow and begin water testing. Thanks for the input and please bare with me and we will have some patience with the project and see how it goes.
Bare bottom or gravel is a common discussion here, since there are strong opinions on both sides, pros and cons, etc and etc. But undergravel filter? It's pretty much a consensus that it's not the way to go! It's outdated filtration!

If your main concern is water quality like you say, then please, reconsider your decision of using UGF! Water quality is the main negative of UGF!

If you still go with it, keep us posted! So we can continue trying to change your mind on that crucial point! ;)

Good Luck!

[FishkeeperforLife]

Bare bottom or gravel is a common discussion here, since there are strong opinions on both sides, pros and cons, etc and etc. But undergravel filter? It's pretty much a consensus that it's not the way to go! It's outdated filtration!

If your main concern is water quality like you say, then please, reconsider your decision of using UGF! Water quality is the main negative of UGF!

If you still go with it, keep us posted! So we can continue trying to change your mind on that crucial point! ;)

Good Luck!

Thanks, sounds fair enough to me; I guess you guys know, the maintenance that an under gravel filter requires is regular cleaning of the gravel. Any filter can cause problems if a maintenance schedule of the filter is not adhered too.

[FishkeeperforLife]

You know the undergravel was only around 10 dollars but the air pump was around 50 dollars, I'm not just going to disregard, I still believe it will be just as safe as any one 200 dollar canister with proper maintenance and will add that even could be safer if the 200 dollar canister is not properly used or maintained.

[waters10]

Thanks, sounds fair enough to me; I guess you guys know, the maintenance that an under gravel filter requires is regular cleaning of the gravel. Any filter can cause problems if a maintenance schedule of the filter is not adhered too.


You know the undergravel was only around 10 dollars but the air pump was around 50 dollars, I'm not just going to disregard, I still believe it will be just as safe as any one 200 dollar canister with proper maintenance and will add that even could be safer if the 200 dollar canister is not properly used or maintained.
Well, yeah, maintenance is key! But discus are very messy and loves pristine water! Gravel + UGF, means food and feces will be sucked towards the gravel all the time. Discus like to eat slower than angels, for example, and like to pick food from the bottom. They won't be able to, when most of the food will be unreachable, trapped within the gravel. You'll end up spending a lot of time cleaning that gravel and even if you do it everyday, you won't be able to maintain water quality that discus love!

And honestly, for $60, there are much much better options! There's this canister filter (http://cgi.ebay.com/3-STAGE-CANISTER-AQUARIUM-FILTER-FRESH-SALT-WATER-/160404927985?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2558e0f5f1#ht_3451wt_991) for $60 and you can get an aquaclear suitable for this tank, for less than that. Not sure why you're talking about a $200 canister filter for a 29g tank. If you want to use that air pump, just go with sponge filters. Will cost you around 10-15 for that.

But going back to another point, like Darrel said, go with your 55g and a group of 5-6. It's much much much much easier to handle discus on a group like that! Specially when you're doing it for the first time.

[Eddie]

Definitely use the 55 for discus as other have suggested. That 29 is too small and one lone discus is like solitary confinement. The fish want to enjoy life as much as you want to enjoy them. A sad discus=sad discuskeeper. :o

Just my 2 cents

Eddie

[Wahter]

A 29 gallon tank is good if you a.) have a proven pair of discus or b.) are temporarily keeping new juvenile fish in it for quarantine. You can keep a lone discus in the 29 gallon for awhile (I've done it before), but since you have the 55 gallon tank, that would be better to use for a small group of discus. You can always use a thin layer of pool filter sand on the bottom, if you don't like the bare bottom look.

Save yourself some anguish and headache - get rid of the Under Gravel Filter. That is so 1970's and should have gone out with the black slate/ stainless steel frame tanks. ;) They will pull down tons (figuratively) of crud beneath the plate and how do you expect to clean that out? If you do too thorough of a gravel vacuum, you disturb the bacterial bed. Also, if the power goes out and your air pump stops blowing the water in, it could have a serious effect on the nitrifying bacterial gravel bed. Since it looks like you already have an Aquaclear power filter in the photos, why not just hang onto that?


Walter

[FishkeeperforLife]

Thanks and I'll consider all the recommendations, your right I'm all ready running an AquaClear 70 with sponge and bio-max inserts. The tank is enjoyed by more than adults, so things like gravel and undergravel filters might be old school to you all, but to the young they are very fascinating.

[FishkeeperforLife]

I hear you guys and I will make the switch gradually to the 55 gallon, I'm battling cancer and receiving chemo right now, so it will take a few months but I will eventually switch over.

[Spardas]

I wish you the best of luck in your battle against cancer.

Back OT:

If you do plan a gradual move over to the 55, why not just start the cycle in that tank now.

For the 29 gallons, keep everything there and get simple, small, and easy community fishes for the kids. They'll still be able to keep their UGF/filter and see some fishes swim around. You get to do it right from the get go with the 55.
:D

[Eddie]

I hear you guys and I will make the switch gradually to the 55 gallon, I'm battling cancer and receiving chemo right now, so it will take a few months but I will eventually switch over.


Very sorry to hear about the cancer. Definitely understand about putting off the change.

All the best with everything,

Eddie

[vera]

I hear you guys and I will make the switch gradually to the 55 gallon, I'm battling cancer and receiving chemo right now, so it will take a few months but I will eventually switch over.

U'll be in our prayers, tanks can wait
Best of luck !!

[waters10]

Thanks and I'll consider all the recommendations, your right I'm all ready running an AquaClear 70 with sponge and bio-max inserts. The tank is enjoyed by more than adults, so things like gravel and undergravel filters might be old school to you all, but to the young they are very fascinating.
I didn't notice you already had an AC running! But I doubt kids will care about UGF. You can have substrate, without UGF. Just put substrate straight into your tank.

Like others said, I think the best way for you, is to turn the 29g into a kid's tank and the 55g into your discus tank. Use low demand fish for the kid's tank, then you don't get overloaded by taking care of 2 tanks.


I hear you guys and I will make the switch gradually to the 55 gallon, I'm battling cancer and receiving chemo right now, so it will take a few months but I will eventually switch over.
Sorry to hear about it. Good luck with your battle! :)

[FishkeeperforLife]

Thanks allot guys your help and encouragement means I'm among good people, much appreciated. I will have to wait on the 55 gallon for awhile until my last two chemo cycles are over about 7 more weeks to go just don't feel up to it right now. The tank needs a good scrubbing just to get it ready to start on.

[FishkeeperforLife]

Just thought I let everyone know, the 29 gallon no longer has an under gravel filter. :D

[FishkeeperforLife]

Down to two danios and added a albino cory cat, here's a shot without the under gravel filter; I'm glad I listened to you guys about getting rid of the filter.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture591.jpg?t=1273509741

[kitykatfunkiehat]

That piece of wood is spectacular!

[JoeDiscus]

Hey FishKeeper,

First off, GOOD LUCK in your fight against cancer!! Next, after read through all of your posts and the replies that you received, I have to say that removing that undergravel filter was the smartest thing you could do...it'll certainly be easier to keep your water in the pristine condition that discus require, if that's truly what you intend to use the 29g tank for. Though if you've got the additional 55g sitting around, you should consider setting that up at a later date and your discus will surely be happy in that...and you'll be able to enjoy them as well! The main key thing about keeping discus well is frequent water changes to keep the water clean...that's what will benefit them the most! And there's nothing wrong with keeping just the gravel in there...just be sure to suction vacuum the gravel well when you do your water changes!

GOOD LUCK with everything!! ;)

[FishkeeperforLife]

That piece of wood is spectacular!

Thanks, I found that a local pet shop they had the largest selection of driftwood I've ever seen; it took awhile of going through piles of pieces to find that one. :D

[FishkeeperforLife]

Hey FishKeeper,

First off, GOOD LUCK in your fight against cancer!! Next, after read through all of your posts and the replies that you received, I have to say that removing that undergravel filter was the smartest thing you could do...it'll certainly be easier to keep your water in the pristine condition that discus require, if that's truly what you intend to use the 29g tank for. Though if you've got the additional 55g sitting around, you should consider setting that up at a later date and your discus will surely be happy in that...and you'll be able to enjoy them as well! The main key thing about keeping discus well is frequent water changes to keep the water clean...that's what will benefit them the most! And there's nothing wrong with keeping just the gravel in there...just be sure to suction vacuum the gravel well when you do your water changes!

GOOD LUCK with everything!! ;)

Thanks, fighting I am.

I just haven't been up to messing with the 55 gallon, thought I would probably start it up the beginning of summer if all goes well.
I would at least like to get some experience with the fish before hand and thought it would be feasible to keep a single discus with some small schooling fish in the 29g, in the mean time.

[waters10]

Thanks, fighting I am.

I just haven't been up to messing with the 55 gallon, thought I would probably start it up the beginning of summer if all goes well.
I would at least like to get some experience with the fish before hand and thought it would be feasible to keep a single discus with some small schooling fish in the 29g, in the mean time.
I know that with a lot of things, it makes sense to get your feet wet, start small, learn and then progress to bigger things. But with discus, starting with 1 or 2 fish only in a small tank is actually a lot harder than starting with a proper group (5-6) in a bigger tank. It sounds a bit counter intuitive and a bit intimidating to start with that many fish! But it has to do with their behavior and how they like to be in a group. I'm not saying it's impossible to have 1 or 2 discus, it's just a lot harder to keep them happy and healthy. Specially when you're new to them.

What you could do, is keep reading and posting questions, getting ready and wait to get discus till you're ready to set up the 55g! There's a lot to learn here and people are very friendly. I know it's hard to keep reading about it when you want to actually do it! How about you post a pic of the 55g as it is? You said it needs some scrubbing, has it been used before? Some vinegar on the glass might do wonders and if you go BB with sponge filters, that tank might not take much to be ready for some discus!

I'm not trying to discourage you, it's actually the opposite! Trying to maximize your chance of success right from the start, so you stick around in the long run!

Good luck either way! :)

[FishkeeperforLife]

Here's the 55 gallon tank ready to be cleaned up; I have the lights for it in the basement. I'll be done with chemo June 21, and then I'll feel more like tackling into it. I probably will start with a lone discus in the mean time, but even that won't be for awhile. I already purchased the vinegar in preparation for the cleaning and nice wide straight razor.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture592.jpg

[waters10]

That doesn't look that bad. I think bleach and vinegar should do a good job on it! But I don't have that much experience cleaning old tanks, maybe wait for some more advice on how to proceed.

Good luck!

[mmorris]

I probably will start with a lone discus in the mean time, but even that won't be for awhile.
http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture592.jpg

When I first got into discus I started with one. I couldn't figure out why he seemed so miserable all the time. Then I learned that they need to be kept in groups. I went out immediately and bought a 55 gallon and 5 more discus. He was thrilled! His behavior changed so dramatically it's hard to imagine. Don't get just one. :)

[FishkeeperforLife]

I will wait till I feel more like tackling the 55 gallon, before I purchase any discus fish.

Added 8 new fish, a school of bloodfin tetras to the 29 gallon; with the fish that are still in the tank, one danio and one albino cory cat.

[FishkeeperforLife]

Just got a 75 gallon all-glass aquarium tank 48L x 18W x 21H with a four foot all glass aquarium strip light, aqua clear 70 filter and 300w heater, also with a real wood stand, only 70 dollars for everything. This will be the tank I'll set up next, instead of the 55g.

How may full size discus fish to you guys add to your tank at one time?

[tcyiu]

Just got a 75 gallon all-glass aquarium tank 48L x 18W x 21H with a four foot all glass aquarium strip light, aqua clear 70 filter and 300w heater, also with a real wood stand, only 70 dollars for everything. This will be the tank I'll set up next, instead of the 55g.

How may full size discus fish to you guys add to your tank at one time?

It depends on the readiness of the filter(s). If the filters and the tank has enough of the good bacteria to handle the load, you can add up to the full stocking limit of the tank (for most people it's 1 adult per 10gallons).

BUT if the filters are still maturing, I would not add that many fish WITHOUT committing to massive daily water changes initially and then backing off gradually.

The problem is that the bacteria need time to grow. The good news is that bacteria multiply very quickly with the right conditions.

The bad news is that if you start with a fishless cycle, it could take up to several weeks before all the right bacteria float into your tank and establish on your filter media.

The good news is that if you have a mature filter, you can take some of the mature media and drop it into your tank. This colony of bacteria should multiply very rapidly.

So the upshot is: it depends on a bunch of factors.

If you're in a hurry and IF your established tank has no disease, AND you're buying from a reputable dealer, I would go with the matured media approach.

There will be those who will want you to do a fishless cycle to ensure there are no residual diseases in your matured media. Your call. I tend to think that healthy stock from reputable dealers can adapt.

Tim

[FishkeeperforLife]

It will be an established tank before the fish are added with a fully mature aqua clear 70 with a sponge and a bio-max bag insert.

Because the cost of the discus, in my area there's no way I'll be able to add 6 discus all at once. For the nicer discus I'm seeing are costing at least 60 dollars. Plus the fact I will have to go to multiple stores to find the best selections.

[tcyiu]

It will be an established tank before the fish are added with a fully mature aqua clear 70 with a sponge and a bio-max bag insert.

Because the cost of the discus, in my area there's no way I'll be able to add 6 discus all at once. For the nicer discus I'm seeing are costing at least 60 dollars. Plus the fact I will have to go to multiple stores to find the best selections.

Depends on what you mean by nice. In my LFS, $60 buys really ugly sick discus. $140 buys you passable discus. You really should consider the sponsors.

If you go the route of adding a few at a time from different sources, you will need a quarantine procedure in place (which could also mean multiple quarantine tanks). If you do not quarantine, you risk losing ALL of your expensive fish in one go. You might want to just save up and buy all at one time.

Tim

[srusso]

It will be an established tank before the fish are added with a fully mature aqua clear 70 with a sponge and a bio-max bag insert.

Because the cost of the discus, in my area there's no way I'll be able to add 6 discus all at once. For the nicer discus I'm seeing are costing at least 60 dollars. Plus the fact I will have to go to multiple stores to find the best selections.

Sorry to tell you this but that aquaclear 70 will not be enough filtration for your 75 gallon tank IMHO, I have a 55gal with a fluval 405 and it seems to be just enough to run that tank... The fluval puts out 225 gph... the aquaclear just 70 gph.

[FishkeeperforLife]

The aqua clear filter will come from my 29 gallon to seed the 75g tank, I will be running a 20 gallon long aquarium, as a sump too.

I have no problem quarantining new fish.

[waters10]

It will be an established tank before the fish are added with a fully mature aqua clear 70 with a sponge and a bio-max bag insert.

Because the cost of the discus, in my area there's no way I'll be able to add 6 discus all at once. For the nicer discus I'm seeing are costing at least 60 dollars. Plus the fact I will have to go to multiple stores to find the best selections.
Smoking deal you got for a 75g tank!

It's a lot easier to add all your discus at the same time and from the same source. No risk of contamination that way. Don't have to QT them, if they are going to their own tank. Also, they'll all adjust at the same time. Otherwise the ones you get first, will pick on the new guys you add later.

Also, buy from our sponsors. It's possible to get healthy fish from LFS, but it's very hit and miss. With our sponsors, I won't say it's a guarantee cause I didn't buy from all of them, but it's as close to a guarantee you'll ever get!

Good luck!

[Cevoe]

Hello and best of luck in what you are dealing with.
I am fairly new to keeping discus too and have been setting up and changing tanks for a few months, starting with a 55 gallon tank with gravel, driftwood and a few plants.
I was lucky that someone gave me their fish since they were getting out.
These were ok fish but what I considered to be starters so when I decided what I wanted to do I passed them on to the next guy too.
Since then I have gone to a bare bottom 55 gallon where I am growing out eight little ones and a bare bottom 100 gallon with four mature pairs.
I think once you decide what you want to do then you can get a better idea of how you want to set up your 75 or 55.
In my opinion, a 75 set-up similar to your 29 (which I think looks cool) could house a nice half-dozen young adult sized discus.
Also, I use Aquaclear filters on all my tanks with a rule of thumb of turning the tank capacity over at a rate of 10-times an hour.
Along with the Aquaclears I also use sponge filters to polish and aerate.
From that point I think it's a matter of water changes and chemistry.
Sorry to ramble.

[Foxfire]

Thanks, sounds fair enough to me; I guess you guys know, the maintenance that an under gravel filter requires is regular cleaning of the gravel. Any filter can cause problems if a maintenance schedule of the filter is not adhered too.

No, that is not the main issue with UGF!

The main issue I have read is that in the event of power failure, these filter's bio-culture die very fast and could kill your fish; they can never be turned off. Other filters do not die so easily and when they do, they don't take your fish with them. UGF's are not good for Discus - use a bio-wheel or canister only. Gravel is terrible to clean - traps food and no vacuuming will remove completely the coatings that trap fine food so your water quality will be poor. Go with sand - it holds lots of good bacteria on its surface and holds debris on surface to be vacuumed off.

One issue - Discus do not do well alone. Putting one in a 29 gal tank is not a good idea. Can be done (I have) but the results were poor.

I don't like the large hard water mill - Discus can go flying when spooked and that is asking to injure them. For discus, wood is good as are real plants - fake plants do not help; they hold old food, need to be cleaned and can scrape the fish.

[Foxfire]

By the way, good luck with your treatment!:angel: Hang in there and enjoy the fish, don't waste a lot of time working on the tank. Your health is number one issue!

[FishkeeperforLife]

Thanks allot for all the well wishes.

Here's a shot of the 29 gallon it has 8 bloodfin tetras and an albino Cory cat; I'm in the process of building a stand for it that will go in my bedroom; the 75g will be set up in the same spot where the 29g is now except for on the 75g stand. My oldest son is volunteering his time, money and labor, so the project is going well.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture596.jpg?t=1274573578

[Keith Perkins]

The sign is cute, but I prefer "Mermaid Wanted". :D

[FishkeeperforLife]

Moved the 29g tank to my bedroom so I'm one step closer to setting up the 75g in the living room were the 29g was.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture598-2.jpg?t=1275012362

[FishkeeperforLife]

Added some new fish, 4 dwarf neon rainbows and one dwarf flame groumai to 29g.:):D

The 75 gallon stand, is now ready after doing some minor refinishing and will be placed in the living room today; next I will begin painting the back glass of the 75g aquarium black.

[FishkeeperforLife]

The 75 gallon project is coming along slowly but surely, here's a shot of the tank still being painted with it's black background, which is almost complete.

http://i59.photobucket.com/albums/g287/stelow/Picture599.jpg?t=1276545609