Can heckels be kept in the living room

[tolga]

Hi, this is my first post. I have been reading about heckels for a while.

I have kept discus in the past and would now like to set up a proper heckel biotope aquarium in my soon to be refurbished living room.

I have heard that heckels can be very shy (especially as they grow older) and that they should not be kept in a living room environment where there is likely to be some movement. Is this the absolute truth?

If I was to create a tank with optimum water conditions, as close to nature as possible: i e, low tds, low ph, good biological filtration, fine white sand, drift wood, floating plants, the works, would I be able to keep these gorgeous fish in my living room and enjoy the pleasure of watching them swimming in the front of the tank without having to tip toe around them? (I do have a 5 year old son). Would the size of the shoal make any difference? I can afford to buy around 10 and the size of the tank is also going to be on the large side. How about lighting? Should the light inside the tank be brighter than the light in the room? or the other way around? Do the fish feel more reassured when they can see the people around? And can it only work with adolescent fish? I do intend this project to be a long term one.

I know that this subject has been referred to in previous threads and I hope I'm not being too demanding in asking people to explore it further.
Thanks
Tolga

[illumnae]

I can't speak for others, and I know the experts often caution against it, but I personally have a Heckel biotope tank in my living room. The Heckels are fine, and though typically skittish, I don't find them any more skittish than when I used to keep them in my bedroom. They come to recognize me by now and tolerate my presence, though they're still shy when I come right in front of the tank (e.g. to feed them). When I walk by, or when I watch from a distance they're fine.

However, they are also unpredictable. They don't always react the same way to the same stimuli.

For example, the tank is actually about 5-6 feet away from the main door. The corner that the Heckels love to chill in the most is the side closest to the door. When I return home from work, majority of the time, they will not be disturbed and continue to chill there, if that's what they were doing at the point in time when I come home. However, at other times, they would dart away the moment I stepped in after the door opens. I don't enter the house any differently each time.

Similarly, 90% of the time when I do my water changes, they are fine. However, the remaining 10% of the time, they would panic when I drain the water and go on a panic frenzy darting all around the tank. Again, there's no noticeable change in the way I do the water change.

I have also found that as time goes by, they will get less and less skittish (I've had 1/2 of the Heckels in here for almost 2 years, the other 1/2 about 6 months). They will still succumb to an occasional panic attack, but it gets less and less frequent as time goes by. These days, one of my friends likes to stand in front of the tank and wave her hands vigorously around. Scaring the cardinal tetras to school and swim in tandem away from her hands amuses her. However, the Heckels aren't too fussed and largely ignore her.

Hence, my conclusion is that regardless of where you choose to place them, the Heckels will eventually get accustomed to their surroundings. How they choose to react to any external simuli will always be unpredictable. You may sequester them in a quiet room, but for all you know, observing a leaf slowly float to the ground past your window may set them off as badly as you slapping the side of the tank.

[tolga]

Hi Illumnae, thank you very much for your quick and very informative reply.

It is interesting to note that Heckels are capable of maintaining their position at the front of your tank (the side that is closest to the door) regardless of any movement around the tank.

Would having more decor in the form of drift wood make them feel more secure and less likely to remain in hiding or would a minimalist setting with not too many branches encourage them to be more bold and outgoing? Unfortunately, due to the acidic nature of the water with ph around 5 or lower, amazon swords would be out of question but I might be able to grow some surface plants if you think that might help things? I am now very optimistic about this project. Thanks.

[illumnae]

I do have quite a substantial volume of wood in there to act as hiding places for the fish. I think it encourages them to be less skittish if they know that their "safe haven" is just a foot away. However, I am currently planning a rescape to reduce the total amount of wood volume, yet adding more "shelter" by removing the more "blocky" wood and replacing with thinner branchy wood that would resemble root systems. The fish can hide between/under the branchy wood instead of behind the blocky wood.

In terms of plants, I have nothing at the moment, but I do intend to locate and purchase Amazon frogbits or Water lettuce when I can, to produce places of shade under which the Heckels would feel secure.

I believe lowering the light would help in making them feel secure as well. I used to run them under 4x54w t5ho, as this tank I'm using for them used to be a planted tank, and the light is a legacy set from planted tank days. Since then, I've permanently switched of 2 of the t5ho tubes, and it's now running on 2 tubes for 6 hours a day on weekdays and 8 hours a day on weekends.

My next project for the lighting would be to switch to LED lighting instead. I not only save on electricity costs, but I believe the lower, more focused lighting would better emulate beams sunlight filtering through the rainforest cover. This may help them settle in even more. I just need to settle on the right balance between (a) enough shade/darkness for the discus and (b) enough light for me to be pleased aesthetically!

[tolga]

Yes, based on what I have heard so far, I tend to think that lower lighting might be better for them and might even encourage them to show of their beautiful colours. I too was considering Led spot lights instead of the yellowish mercury vapour lights that I inherited from my planted tank days. My aim is to illuminate the tank from the top at an angle as I thought this would look more natural. I am currently investigating the various types of Led lighting units that are on the market. Trouble is, they are very expensive especially the ones designed specifically for aquarium use. I 'will continue my search as the Led technology is moving very fast and something decent is bound to come up at some stage. Thanks.

[illumnae]

The commercial sets now are crazily priced. I'm looking to DIY a set. Been talking with a friend who's way more technically competent than me, and he's talking about working together to build a led lightset with a microchip that can do crazy stuff like having separate lights fade in and out in a linear fashion to create a single beam of light that starts the day at the left of the tank and ends the day on the right, to emulate the sun rising from one side and setting on the other! Same deal with moonlights!!

Crazy idea, we'll probably refine it more, but that's the plan now

[tolga]

Wow! That brought a smile to my face. Your project sounds great. I suppose the challenge would be to find good quality high power bulbs as opposed to those weak bulbs one sees around. this microchip idea sounds cool but as you say, you need an expert for that and I have some moronic tendencies when it comes to technical stuff so It makes sense to get some help from a friend. I'll be very much interested to find out about the finished object and i'm sure it would be a great contribution to the ongoing debates around this subject.

[illumnae]

I don't know if there's any debate about this subject, but it's nonetheless a very interesting one. The LEDs I intend to use are CREE 3W high intensity LEDs. They cost about $5 apiece when ordered online. As they're so bright, and I don't need the kind of intensity a high tech planted or reef tank needs, I can perhaps use no more than 12 LEDs for the entire tank, which, including all other tools needed, should put my total cost at below $200.

Another idea I have, is not to bother with the "East to West" orientation of the sun, but instead have different LEDs fading in and out somewhat randomly such that you see different "beams" of light shining into the tank randomly throughout the day. Of course the change in beams will be extremely gradual and slow (like maybe shift position once every 1-2 hours).

The effect I'm trying to create is the sun filtering through the rainforest canopy, thus creating distinct "beams" that shine into the water. As the sun moves, and as there are shifts in canopy and foilage and water cover (e.g. floating plants), the beams would change position as well. In nature, I believe that's how light is underwater - the beams shining in are not in a constant position like we have in most tanks, but instead are random and always changing.

My friend and I are very excited about this project!

[bonghapster]

I keep my heckel with my domestic in my living room, no problem. The domestic are used to the water changes and keeps the heckel calm. They just think i'm feeding them.

Hope that helps.

Hap

[illumnae]

I'm now ordering the LEDs for the project. Due to the lack of previous such DIY projects (the only one I know of is Ouscaz's, but he hasn't been online to respond to
my initial query, so I can't have a discussion with him), I'm unable to estimate how many LEDs I will need.

LEDs are really new to the hobby (not in terms of age, but in terms of availability to the general hobbyist due to prohibitive cost), and although I have the end goal in mind, my project is being delayed by my inability to formulate the details :(

[Apistomaster]

Check out this LED aquarium lamp at only $45.50 on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/DIY-LED-Lighting-Package-Aquarium-Tank-/370145617015?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item562e65e477

[illumnae]

Thanks Larry, but I'm looking to DIY a set from scratch using LEDs. I'll be ordering something like this to wire the set up:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2394

What I'll probably end up doing is order some cheap parts from China first to build a non-automated version as a prototype, then thereafter get the Crees to build the proper "dream" system I outlined above.

Ouscazz used 5 pieces of 1w LEDs to great effect in his 96gal tank. My tank is shorter but deeper and wider than his, and it's 120gal. I also find his tank a little too dim for my preference (I know his probably emulates nature better, but I'm trying to strike a balance between looking natural and being able to see my living room showcase well!). Hence, I'll probably use 4-5 pieces of 3w LEDs underpowered at 700mA in my set.

[Apistomaster]

Back to the original question, it is actually better to keep Heckels or any other wild or domestic Discus in a location that does receive some traffic such as your living room because the fish become used to the normal level of activity. If you are over protective they tend to be more easily startled into a panic,
One thing which can be helpful is to set the tank on na stand which is higher than most commercial stands which are about 34 inches. Even an extra 10 inches, 44 inches off the floor can make the Heckels more at ease. I set my 125 gal, six feet long tank up that high and I keep my wild Alenquers in that tank.
I set my other large tank up about 4 feet high and that was where I kept my Heckels for 4+ years. They liked that but it was not as enjoyable for viewing the other fish like the fancy plecos.
All Discus but especially Heckels, will have a panic attack for no particular reason. Mine used to react to me when I put on a jacket from all the way on the opposite side of the room. Yet at other times they would be very relaxed and patient with me as I performed work inside their tank. There is no predicting how Heckels will react. Altum Angelfish are also a lot like that. What they have in common is that they are visual fish which are always aware of changes in their surroundings and live in deeper water than most any aquarium. That is why it is good to get them used to living in your living room so they become used to your regular activities. The more they associate people with food the calmer they will become around people.

I think much of the reason why Heckels are so easily alarmed is that they normally live in water 6 to 8 feet deep and the depth provides them with considerable overhead cover and lower light intensity but in aquariums the depth is shallow plus they react to the unnatural side lighting from any ambient illumination in the room. I paint the sides and backs of my tanks to help reduce this phenomenon but an alternative and less permanent side cover can work just as well. I have painted white "milk carton" paper a dark color, cut the sheets to fit the sides and back then tape them in place.

[captainandy]

If you want info on DIY LED go to either
Www.reefcentral.com Or [url]Www.manhattanreefs.com
I just ordered an Aquaillumination fixture - not for the intensity but the controller mimics a 24 hour light cycle with the occasional cloudy day.

[illumnae]

I've already started ordering the parts for my LED set :D Does anyone know whether it's more natural to have the LED lights (emulating sun beams) all shine in from 1 direction, or should I have them criss-cross at angles?

[DiscusOnly]

My experience with Heckels so in the short period I had them.

1. setup a 180 gal in the basement with just sand and a few dw. Took them about 2 weeks to really adjust. Out and about swimming all the time after that too 2 weeks, even when I am in the room.

2. This is one mistake that I made. I added plants.. lots of them thinking that it would look cool to fill the entire background of a 6 foot tank with corkscrew vals. With the plants.. they started hidding whenever I am in the room. This went on for weeks until last weekend.

3. I decided I had it.. so I moved them up to my foyer with lots of traffic. I never have problem with discus there (even wild green). For the past few days.. they get startled so easily. The one good thing is that they are swimming around and not hidding, even during the day. It's probably going to take a few weeks but I shall wait and see. I decided that this is where they are going to stay for good.

[Apistomaster]

I have had Heckel groups many times over the years and I find they are most at ease in a tank with fine sand and some branches of wood. When I have tried plants all was fine at first but as the plants grew and took up more space I saw less of the Heckels.
I used various Amazon Sword Plant species, mainly the big broad leaved type, Echinodorus bleheri and the shorter E.parviflorus "Tropica" variety.

I now use few to no plants in my wild Discus tanks. Sometimes I will grow a couple large Anubia barteri attached to some of the wood. I have dual lamp HO T-5 lamps in my fixtures but I only use one lamp per fixture so the lighting is not too intense and some of my pieces of wood are large and long enough to reach the surface, The Discus often like to rest underneath these overhanging branches.

I think of Heckels as a shy species but they can and do adjust to most locations. I think in terms of their sheer comfort, greater height above the floor is more important than location. They tend to instinctively take flight when subjected to moving, overhead shadows.

I have kept them happy within the environment of a trafficked retail fish shop or in my home.