Installation of pump in water storage barrel

[illumnae]

I just purchased a 55gal water storage barrel that comes with a cover. The barrel stores my RO water and I intend to use it to do water changes for my 2 tanks.

Both tanks are about 20+ feet away from the barrel and the top of the tanks are about 4-4.5 feet above ground. The water barrel will be placed on the ground.

I'm just wondering what's the best position to install the pump to pump the water back into the tanks. I'm trying to avoid having to drill the barrel itself.

My current thought is to drill a hole in the cover of the barrel with a pvc pipe running all the way to the bottom of the barrel to be able to get all the water, and connecting that pvc pipe to the pump, which will be installed on top of the cover of the barrel. The garden hose can then be connected to the pump outlet on one end, and the tank at the other end.

Alternatively, a messier way would be to sit an internal pump inside the barrel inside the water, but it would be a wet affair hooking up the hose each time.

[Pardal]

Doesn't have to be necessary messier.
I permanent attached a Rio submersible pump with a clear 1/2" hose like the one's from python (reinforced with an stainless steel hose clamp). the hose is only about 6~7 feet and have a male tread fitting at the end .I just dunk this in any of my storage drums and then attached to a garden hose or a python clear hose and then pump my aged tap water or my RO water to the tanks.
Nothing fancy but it works. When finishing filling the tanks just disattached and take the pump out of the tank store everything so the hose and pump stay clean to the next day use.

[illumnae]

Thanks that's not a bad idea, but it's less permanent than fixing it on the cover :) Is the Rio pump able to drain the barrel completely? Or does it leave like 1-2 inches of water behind?

[jeff@zina.com]

All pumps will leave a little in the bottom, unless you elevate the barrel over the pump level. I do the same thing, cheap submersible pump, potable water hose with garden hose fittings. Been working fine for years.

Jeff

[Northwoods Discus]

If you can elevate your water barrel above tank level you don't even need a pump at all. I bought a rain barrel 60 gallons and it has a threaded hole at the bottom to attach a valve. It has a big opening on the top to drop in your heater. I drilled the back for a float valve to attach the R/O line. This way I do not have floods, at least from the R/O barrel. I have this in the basement in the fish room so the tanks below this level I can fill with gravity flow. I mounted the tank from the rafters by building a spot with 2x4s. For grow out tanks I have a submersible pump with an old python hose attached and use tap water for that. I am looking for a larger barrel for grow out water.

[Jhhnn]

You can easily use a submersible mag drive pump plumbed thru the top of the barrel with pvc, and a hose fitting on that. If you want to drain the barrel as much as possible, many pumps have threaded inlets, so you can put an elbow on that to be able to pump down to within an inch or so of the bottom. Because the pump is always holding up a column of water, it won't run completely dry even if it's cavitating, so it's protected...

If the barrel is on a concrete floor, then putting a piece of 1" styrofoam under it keeps the heat from getting away into the floor, and insulating the whole thing can be a good idea.

[illumnae]

Insulation isn't a problem for me :) I live in Singapore where the average temperature is 30 degrees celcius (86 degrees F),and some days it goes up to 35 degrees celcius (95 degrees F)! This temperature sucks in general, but is good for tropical fish (don't need a heater, some people even use chillers!)

So generally the recommendation is against installing an external pump on the cover of the drum and plumbing down a pvc pipe to the bottom of the drum? Any particular reason why a submersible at the bottom of the drum is better?

One of the reasons I was thinking of installing the external pump on the cover of the drum is so that I can reduce the head needed to pump up to the tank, which would allow me to get a lower rated pump to carry the same speed. (e.g. 1000gal/hour pump having to operate at 4ft head may be equal to a 500gal/hour pump having to operate at 1ft head assuming the top of the barrel is 1ft from the top of the tank).

[RockRiverfish]

[/QUOTE]So generally the recommendation is against installing an external pump on the cover of the drum and plumbing down a pvc pipe to the bottom of the drum? Any particular reason why a submersible at the bottom of the drum is better?[/QUOTE]

This main reason is that water pumps are better at "pushing" water rather than "pulling" it. If you mount the pump on the cover you will most likely have to prime it each time that you turn it on in order to get the water moving. And as the level goes down in the barrel, the pump may very well loose it's prime and stop pumping. A submersible pump solves this issue since it is already in the water.

[/QUOTE]One of the reasons I was thinking of installing the external pump on the cover of the drum is so that I can reduce the head needed to pump up to the tank, which would allow me to get a lower rated pump to carry the same speed. (e.g. 1000gal/hour pump having to operate at 4ft head may be equal to a 500gal/hour pump having to operate at 1ft head assuming the top of the barrel is 1ft from the top of the tank).[/QUOTE]

I can see your logic, but in reality the amount of "head" will be nearly identical in both situations. This is because the basic calculation refers to the height that you are lifting the water above the source. In your case the starting point for the calculation is the top of the water in the barrel as compared to the top of the tank. With the barrel filled to the top you only have 1 foot of "head" no matter where the pump is located. Conversly, when the barrel is nearly empty you will have 4 feet of "head". As the barrel empties the "head" increases because the top of the source water is getting lower. Then add in the resistance of the pipe/hose/fittings. With a couple of fittings and 20 feet of hose (sized to match pump outlet) you will probably experience no more than a maximum of 7 feet of head pressure.

With the small volume of water, relatively low pressure, and short operation time; I don't think pump selection will be that critical in terms of initial cost or operating expense.

Best of wishes
Dan

[illumnae]

Thanks for the very clear explanations Dan! I'll proceed to get a submersible one then :) My only concern was that the barrel is 1m (3.3ft) deep, so it's a long way to lean in if I need to remove the pump :)

[jeff@zina.com]

My only concern was that the barrel is 1m (3.3ft) deep, so it's a long way to lean in if I need to remove the pump :)

Tie a rope to it. :)

Actually, I pull mine out by the power cord, so it's not that much different.

Jeff

[RockRiverfish]

Thanks for the very clear explanations Dan! I'll proceed to get a submersible one then :) My only concern was that the barrel is 1m (3.3ft) deep, so it's a long way to lean in if I need to remove the pump :)

Glad to help.

I attached a rigid pvc fitting and elbow to the output side of my pump. The hose attaches directly to this and I just pull the pump out by the hose. As long as you have a solid connection with the pump it should be fine.

[Jhhnn]

I use danner 9.5 pumps, rigid pvc on the outlets, which point straight up, then pvc unions and a sweep bend at the top of the barrels. The sweep bends are commonly used in electical conduit pvc. They help increase flow when using pumps.I tyrap the cords to the vertical piping.