My 1st Attempt At A Planted Tank - HELP !!!

[mcishaque]

Tank:
- 75 gallon, about 2 feet high
- 7 juvie discus
- 6 small emerald corys for cleanup
- 3 baby bristle nose plecos for algae control
- 4x20 watt T5 HO lights (light temp/wavelength=6.5K)
- 2x15 watt cheapo compact flourescent lights
- seachem flourite gravel (new - added about 6 weeks ago)
- seachem flourish tab ferts (added same time as flourite gravel)
- air pumps x 2
- eheim 2217 filter
- hang on the back filter

Water:
- change 2 times a week - almost 100% (I add prime, turn on 85 degree tap water as I sumultaneously gravel vaccum, so it's tough to tell exact percentage of water change);

- PH = 7 or 7.5
- moderately hard water
- adding a tsp of baking soda every water change to get KH up a bit to avoid PH swings

History:

TRY #1
-------
- added some jungle vals (approx 50 stems) and some amazon swords
- jungle vals started melting, swords started to turn brown and then melt
- LFS guy told me to add excel for carbon (bad idea - I think that accelerated the melting)
- same LFS guy sold me some liquid seachem ferts and told me to add some every water change; liquid fert started an algae problem, but I stuck w/ it

They all continued to melt.

TRY #2
-------
Thinking I added liquid ferts and excel too late, I pulled the dying stems out and replaced them w/ new plants (same kind)

- same results: all melted away in 2 weeks; algae got worse;

TRY #3
-------
- stopped excel and liquid ferts (excel was melting the vals, and liquid ferts causing algae ?)
- added DYI coke bottle CO2 (2 x 2 litre)
- added new plants (jungle vals, and Java ferns this time)
- jungle vals are still melting; but this time not form the outside of the leave to the inside (as before), but rather top down; when they arrived, they were about 18 inches tall; now after 2 weeks, the vals are about 12 inches tall; that's a loss of about 6 inches in 2 weeks from meltage @!#$#!!!
- some (not all) java fern leaves have turned brown; what's odd is some of these leaves are brown from the base up 1/2 way, but green on the top half

Between the 2 air pumps and the HOB filter, there is plenty of surface water agitation.

I REEELLLLY don't want to add CO2 reactors. I have too much hardware as it is on the tank.

What up gee ? Why I'm not able to get this going ? Is it:
- lack of CO2 ?
- not enuff light (I know I have a low light setup based on the 3 watt per gallon rule - but heck... when I look at planted tanks at LFS, my tank looks 2 times brighter than their planted show tanks !!) ?
- not enuff ferts ?
- too new of a setup (gravel and fert tabs was added only 6 weeks ago) ?
- all of the above ?

Why would agea be growing like crazy, but plants be melting away ?

Or should I just give up and go to silk plants .. LOL ?

P.S. I would post some PICS, but I only have a point-n-shoot, and no SLR. So I doubt I'll be able to take a pic w/ enuff detail to accurately depict the meltage that's happening.

[Ibenu]

Kay Excel melts vals:)

Consistently, it does, as reported by many friends of mine as well as seen myself.

So you have access to Blyxa japonica, P stellatus, as well as some hygros?

Those would be better plants for you what you are doing and I think you would have success....

[mcishaque]

Kay Excel melts vals:)

Consistently, it does, as reported by many friends of mine as well as seen myself.

So you have access to Blyxa japonica, P stellatus, as well as some hygros?

Those would be better plants for you what you are doing and I think you would have success....

Thank you !

I did vals because I wanted low light, tall plants to hide all the hardware in the back. And a medium plant here and there in front of the vals to break up the monotony of vals all the same size. For plant color, I like the lighter greens (grass green ?).

With that in mind, Blyxa japonica would work great as the foreground/mid ground plant.

But what would you suggest as the tall plant for the background ?

Check out this thread: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=80845

What is the tall, feathery plant on the left ? Would that be a good noob, low light, low tech plant ?

Thanks again for your advice. Muchos gracias, amigo !

[rickztahone]

Thank you !

I did vals because I wanted low light, tall plants to hide all the hardware in the back. And a medium plant here and there in front of the vals to break up the monotony of vals all the same size. For plant color, I like the lighter greens (grass green ?).

With that in mind, Blyxa japonica would work great as the foreground/mid ground plant.

But what would you suggest as the tall plant for the background ?

Check out this thread: http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=80845

What is the tall, feathery plant on the left ? Would that be a good noob, low light, low tech plant ?

Thanks again for your advice. Muchos gracias, amigo !

i started growing onion plants instead of the vals for the same reason, the melt. good luck with the planted tank

[Ibenu]

http://i141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/ibenu/th_Forsale1.jpg (http://s141.photobucket.com/albums/r78/ibenu/?action=view&current=Forsale1.jpg) Checked out my thread and I think you mean these that I have weighted down, that was me selling my P,stellatus. I highly recomend it even for lower light tanks, it will get tall with more space in between leaves but based on crazy success with it in every tank I have as well as everyone I have given clippings to it is not the hard to grow plant it is rumoured to be.

tropica plant nutrition or florish comprehensive as recomended.
Lights on 8 hours a day 10 max
And when you do a water change ensure you do not as as you remove.

Couple reasons...

1-Prime (for example) has salts that will sink when added there for you will remove likely as apposed to neutralize the chlorine in the water you are adding.
2- if you are having algae problems you need to really know you are changing as much water as you think.

ensuring you are really getting those nitrates out of the water will (read should) eradicate your alga problem.

This is just my opinion based on growing my own tanks.. Please if anyone else has issue with what I say let me know, Im willing to learn without having to do things the hard way(read myself:))

Lisa

[mcishaque]

Sorry, Lisa - for not noticing it was your thread that I was pointing you to. :D
Thanks for the plant name and the pointers.

Ditto Ricardo.

[Offpath]

- not enuff light (I know I have a low light setup based on the 3 watt per gallon rule - but heck... when I look at planted tanks at LFS, my tank looks 2 times brighter than their planted show tanks !!) ?


T5 HO is rarely going to give you a low light setup, unless you're suspending the lights at least half a foot or more above the tank. The watts-per-gallon rules that you've heard about were derived around T8 lighting, and T5 lighting is simply a lot more efficient. My hunch is that you have too much light and too little of something else, either fertilizers, CO2, or both. This is an ideal situation for algae, but not so for plants.

If you want to keep your current lighting, I'd recommend looking into dry fertilizers and a dosing scheme like EI or PPS. You also may need to use pressurized CO2, as DIY simply doesn't cut it for tanks larger than ~20g.

It sounds, however, like you want a low light/low tech tank, in which case, I'd recommend looking into T5 NO (normal output) lighting, or look at raising your current lighting higher above your tank.

Either way, I'd *highly* recommend checking out the forums at plantedtank.net and posting in the Lighting section. The folks there are really on the ball when it comes to planted tanks.

[mcishaque]

Thank you Offpath. Very much appreciated.

[babakaty]

Couple things occur to me:
1 Planted tanks and discus are two finicky things, especially when you're new to either. Both together have an additive effect.
2 Trying to grow out juvenile discus in a planted tank will most likely add to your difficulties. There are multiple threads on this subject.
3 You don't say what temps you are running but many plants don't (but all discus do) like it hot. Even plants that do can take a while to acclimatize.
4 I'm with Offpath regarding the plant forums. Plantedtank.net, Aquatic Plant Central, or barrreport.com are some good ones.
5 Planted tanks are all about balance; right water chemistry, right plants, right temp, right light intensity, color and photoperiod, right ferts, right substrate, right CO2, right fish population load, etc. This takes a while, especially as it is a moving target. All those gorgeous planted tanks you see pictures of are a snapshot in time and are groomed for their photos, just like a show dog. They rarely tell you how much time and effort went into them. :)
6 Good luck and don't get discouraged!

[mcishaque]

Couple things occur to me:
1 Planted tanks and discus are two finicky things, especially when you're new to either. Both together have an additive effect.
2 Trying to grow out juvenile discus in a planted tank will most likely add to your difficulties. There are multiple threads on this subject.
3 You don't say what temps you are running but many plants don't (but all discus do) like it hot. Even plants that do can take a while to acclimatize.
4 I'm with Offpath regarding the plant forums. Plantedtank.net, Aquatic Plant Central, or barrreport.com are some good ones.
5 Planted tanks are all about balance; right water chemistry, right plants, right temp, right light intensity, color and photoperiod, right ferts, right substrate, right CO2, right fish population load, etc. This takes a while, especially as it is a moving target. All those gorgeous planted tanks you see pictures of are a snapshot in time and are groomed for their photos, just like a show dog. They rarely tell you how much time and effort went into them. :)
6 Good luck and don't get discouraged!

Excellent points, and well put.