First time with Discus progress report

[aalbina]

Good morning everyone,

Today is day two of my entree into the discus hobby. I thought I would post my progress so that others can pipe in advice and other beginners can read along and maybe learn from my mistakes. This post will be about the preparation.

I've been keeping african cichlids (mostly Mal and Tang lake cichlids) and other community tanks off and on for the last 20 years or so. I've always wanted to keep discus but never tried.

The setup: my sons bought me a 30 gallon tank kit and stand for fathers day. I went out thinking I was going to do another cichild tank (given the PH of my well water here in New Hampshire). I set the filter that came with the tank aside, bought some small size brown gravel a Fluval 205, and setup the tank. My wife and I, both avid gardeners, got a wild hair while cruising PetSmart, to try aquatic plants. I had never done that because cichlids will dig them up anyway. We thought we'd give it a try. So my wife and picked up some aquatic plants and I started to try and cycle the tank with no fish. (a little product and some fish food - this didn't work by the way).

While we were trying to cycle the tank, I started reading (again) about discus. Having learned that a consistent PH is more important than a low PH - I got excited about the possibility of keeping discus. My out of tap (well water) was 6.5! I was thrilled - then I aged and aerated the water over night and found that my PH after gas out was around 7.4 with a KH of 3. OK - not so thrilled but that sounded OK given what I had read. 0 on chlorine, ammonia, and nitrite. (not a big surprise right out of the tap but it's fun to feel like a mad scientist...) Little high on iron (plants might like that) and a little high on phosphates (hmm algae might like that!).

We found Al online and made plans to attend his open house this past Friday (Jul 23,2010). Then the plants didn't look so good. More research - and we learned that plants need 2-3 watts in the right spectrum per gallon of water. We also learned that planting in PetSmart gravel isn't going to provide the plants with any nutrients. So my 18 watt kit light wasn't going to cut it. Out to the store - now sporting a new tank top and lighting setup with 60watts of plant growing light we got that setup. Then I mixed fluorite planting substrate in with the gravel. Even after rinsing it clouded the tank - a couple of polishing pads later - all was clear.

Before going to see Al, I panicked and put some peat in the Fluval just to slowly bring the PH down a bit - assuming that his tanks would be run with lower PH and not wanting to shock the new fish. Then I raised the temperature of the tank to about 80 to get ready for new fish that we would hopefully be picking up on Saturday July 24, 2010. We were very excited. The empty tank had been running for 4 weeks, and planted for 2.

To be continued...

[danny2013]

So how big of fish and how many are you getting for your 30 gallon? If that is the tank they will always be in i would suggest getting a breeding pair as a group of discus will not thrive in a tank of that size. You should probably raise you tank temp to around 85. Good luck, Dan

[aalbina]

Continuing the report thread: Day one. We attend Al's openhouse on Friday evening and are blown away by Al's hospitality, obvious passion for the hobby, his knowledge and his beautiful fish! We met several other hobbyist and exchanged information. We learned an awful lot in a short time!

We returned Saturday morning to meet with Al, select some fish and then take the three hour drive back home with our new discus. During our visit we learned the following things we had done in prep were not so smart:

- we had a tank big enough to house a pair of discus and really no more (we read that 3 is a bad number...)

- the temperature should be around 85 or so and maybe higher during acclimation.

- Gravel with juvies is going to be much more work in tank maintenance because you want them to eat a lot to grow out - which produces more waste. Much better to have a bare bottom tank or a sandy bottom which actually mimics their environment in the wild. Not a big deal but we will have to vacuum the gravel carefully at every water change. Planting guides say three inches of gravel -- discus keepers say the less the better. a bare bottom tank lets you see exactly what you need to clean - gravel doesn't.

- We would definitely need an aging tank. Given the amount of time for gas out we needed to aerate and heat the water in a holding tank to do the water changes.

So we picked a pair of juvies that seemed to get along. Al expertly packed them up, we picked up some freeze dried black worms, Al gave us a bio sponge to kick start the biological filtration in our tank - and off we went back to New Hampshire (exceeding the speed limit and cringing every time we hit a bump that would jar the fish.... :) ...)

To be continued...

[aalbina]

So my wife and I have this hour long discussion in the truck on the way about whether we should try and take all the gravel out of the tank and replace it with a thin layer of sand and pot the plants - or whether we leave the gravel and plantings and just work with it for now. After an hour - we decide to not disturb anything and just try the gravel. We come up with a plan for slowly converting from gravel to sand after the fish are acclimated, and doing well. I've done a little reading on doing this and it doesn't sound too bad...

I called my youngest (16) on Fri night and asked him to turn the tank heater up one click to raise the temp of the tank to 85 overnight. When we get home - the tank is at 78. Ooops - he went the wrong way. So we heat up some water and do a little water change and increase the temp of the heater. Wait sixty painful minutes with the fish still in packaging... and then with the water temp at 82 - make the decision to float the bags in the tank for twenty minutes rather than keep them in those little bags of water any longer than we have to. We start the slow process of a cup of old water out of the bag and a cup of tank water in, wait ten minutes and do this again... we're ready. So my wife and youngest son and I practice the transition plan. I'm going to hold the bag by the top and bottom, my son is going to hold the bucket under the bag, my wife is first going to cut the bottom corner off the bag off, then as the water drains cut the top of the bag off closer to the fish so that I can then dump him into the water quickly. I'm basically holding the fish in my hand with the waterless bag as a glove for about a second. We execute our plan flawlessly with both fish and there is a round of high fives all around!

We leave the lights in the tank off for about 30 minutes and then turn on 1 light. The discus are hanging out together hiding in the corner gills pumping furiously. We all sit down and watch them do absolutely nothing for about an hour. But they sure are beautiful! I take many pictures and post them to facebook - all my friends reply with "what's a discus?" - or "Oh - what pretty fishies" ... they have no idea!

So I set about the task of setting up the ageing tank. At Lowes I find a black outdoor pond bucket - I'm sure pond aficionados don't call it a bucket... It holds twenty gallons, is very sturdy and will work just fine since I really only need about 10 gallons. I set it up on a sturdy table next to my well holding tank in the basement, run a short bit of hose from the well spigot to the pond bucket, drop in a power head and a heater and fill it up a little more than half way.

Now to get the bio filter primed. I have three baskets and prefilter sponges in the fluval. So I remove the prefilter ceramics and set them out to dry, cut up Al's sponge and put it in as the last media in the chain. Beneath that is my pores ceramic media, then the peat - which I decide to leave. I fire that back up in the tank and spend another hour watching the discus.

After about 6 hours, I decide to see if they will eat. I drop some dried black worms in the tank and one of them eats pretty well - this is followed by what I'm sure was a terrifying moment for the fish - my little victory dance in the living room! But the other one is not interested - perhaps perplexed by my dancing.

The tank temp is slowly come up and I go to bed on day one afraid that the temp will go to high and I will be greeted with a grizzly bouillabaisse in the morning. So I set my alarm for 2AM and check the tank - 85 - right on the money. Day one comes to a close... and I'm pretty pleased!

Adam

[aalbina]

Got up this morning and checked the tank, the fish have moved to the other side of the tank and look terrific. Gills are pumping slowly and evenly, their color is fabulous, and they are reacting to my presence (by hiding but it's still a reaction.) Tank temp is right at 85.

I decide that perhaps I'll see if they'll eat this morning. I got some pellet food as recommended - and drop a few into the tank.. They sink straight to the bottom and are lost almost immediately in the gravel. Great - I make a mental note to vacuum that up today. Onto the freeze dried black worms. A few in the water that continue to float around in the water column but neither fish is interested. I'll need to net those out to today as well if they don't eat them.

So far so good - and I'm wondering if I need to raise the tank temperature to raise up their metabolism so they'll eat a bit? Any suggestions?

I probably just need to be patient and let them acclimate. I plan to do a water change tonight after I check the tank chemical levels.

Adam

[hamfist]

I probably just need to be patient and let them acclimate.

Yeah, just give them a little time.

[aalbina]

Thanks Hamfist - and you are right! They just needed a little time. This morning, day three (but only about 36 hours in the tank), I thawed some frozen bloodworms in a little tank water, rinsed them with a little more tank water in a net and put a few in the tank.

Both discus went after them a bit tentatively at first but then picked them up off the bottom and both of them ate pretty well! I put the rest in and they ate quite a few of those as well. I can't even explain the relief my wife and I felt.

After they ate - they moved around the tank exploring more than I've seen them do since day one. After 30 minutes, I siphoned out what they didn't eat and went to work happy!

I learned that one cube of bloodworms is probably too much food at one time, so I'll cut the cube in half and try half a cube at a time.

Adam

[hamfist]

I learned that one cube of bloodworms is probably too much food at one time, so I'll cut the cube in half and try half a cube at a time.

Adam

Being a relatively new discus keeper myself this is something I have learned too. They have much smaller appetites than most other fish their size, but need to eat more often.
I completely overdid the feeding when I started too, being used to other greedy south american cichlids !

[aalbina]

Yeah - I've had the same experience with other cichlids. I'm a little concerned because these are juvies and I want them to grow out well. I'm adding some ocean nutrition reef flakes to the FBW so I can get an auto feeder that will feed them a little while I'm at work. So far - they pick at the flakes at eat a little but with the FBW in the water they certainly prefer those!

I definitely don't want them to grow up to be scrawny discus! I'm going to try making some beef heart worms from Carols posts and see how that goes. Have you tried that?

Adam

[kleankord]

great thread. I picked up my first 2 on Sunday, and picking up 4 more tomorrow. How many do you have in the 29? Do you plan on a bigger tank or staying with that one?

[aalbina]

Congrats on the new fish. I'll probably stay with the 2 in the 29 for a while and see how it goes.

[aalbina]

OK - I'm now on day 18 of keeping my first discus and it seems like a lot longer than 18 days! If I said that the past 2 weeks have been trying - it would be a tremendous understatement.

On day 3 (we'll call this fish a female for no other good reason than differentiating it from the other fish for the purpose of discussion) the female wasn't eating, color was darkening and she was pumping her gills and breathing much faster than the male (we don't know if it's a male but we'll go with that for the reasons stated above...)

The male was eating and still brightly colored and pushing the lethargic fast breathing female around a bit. The female stayed pretty much in one spot breathing hard. We put an airstone in the tank and I sent off emails to Al clearly a bit panicked about what I had done wrong.

Day 4 - no change in either fish although the male now - was not eating very well. Continued to do water changes but it seemed that they got worse after the water changes. I was aging the water, aerating and heating and treating with a commercial API conditioner drops that removed chlorine and neutralized heavy metals according to the label.

Day 5 - Neither fish is eating - the male is still brightly colored but a bit lethargic. No change in the female - she is breathing heavy and darkening even more. Ammonia level is 0, Nitrate 0, stable pH hardness and Alkalinity... I'm stumped and call Al desperate for help.

Day 6 - took the day off work (is there such thing as a sick fish day?) and Al spoke with me on the phone as we tried to figure out what was going on. Ammonia levels were fine, Nitrite and Nitrate where fine - pH wasn't bouncing. Hmm. Al started asking questions about my water, age of the house, the pipes, the hose I was using to fill the aging tank.... none of which seemed relevant to an amateur like me but obviously were key questions. Al uncovered that the level of iron in the water was unusually high and that we used in line sediment filters that turned orange over night - but that I was bypassing those filters to fill my aging tank. Additionally, he uncovered that the substrate I added to the tank to make the plant grow was fluorite - and that contained even more iron. I had also removed the activated carbon from my filter just before we went to pick up the fish so even if the API conditioner was binding up heavy metals they weren't being removed from the tank. We suspect that I have poisoned them with high levels of toxic metals in the water. So - off to the pet store to find a better commercial conditioner that bound up heavy metals - carbon bag went back into the filter.

That night feeling the need to do SOMETHING and reduce the variables - I gently netted the fish one at a time, and put them in the holding tank (pH and temp were the same as the tank). Next, my wife and I cleared the aquarium completely. No more gravel - now completely bare bottom, no driftwood - just two kyoto grass plants in two little glass pots with a bit of gravel in them. Refilled the tank with the water we had just taken out. Back in go the fish. I put a tablespoon per 10 gallons of aquarium salt into the tank. Lights out call it a night and hope for the best.

Day 7 - female is doing better. Both fish appear to be breathing normally. As fast as the female is recovering and getting her color back, the male is going down hill. He's darkening, lethargic and starts hanging out at the top of the tank in the corner listing to one side. We buy a better air pump and get that going in the tank. I also get a resin bag for heavy metal removal and put that in the aging tank.

Days 8,9,10 - panicked that the male seems to be going through much worse a time than the female did - I find a 6 stage RO unit on sale on craigslist and negotiate a deal for $50.00 and run out to get it! I clean what I can with water and vinegar and run 10 gallons of RO water out of the unit into the sink. Then I run 10 gallons into my aging tank over the next two days and mix it with conditioned well water. I pick up Kents Marine R/O Right and slowly start to water change my way onto completely RO water. The male is still stressed and I put in another series of emails to Al and post some you tube video of the fish so he can see it. It's hard to tell but we decide to give the fish more time to process the toxins. At this point - I'm seriously considering packaging these fish up and getting them back to Al (who is three hours away if I do the speed limit - 2 and a half if I drive the way I feel!) I'm thinking I can't keep these fish - and I'm worried I'm going to kill them.

Days 11, 12,13 - By now I'm completely changed over to RO water using 1 tablespoon of RO Right per 5 gallons. Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and pH are stable and the GH is now around 30 or so. The female is doing very well and she eating bloodworms and pellets as well some brine shrimp. She's bright and alert and just looks great. The male is doing a little better, he's come back down to the bottom, his eyes are a little clearer and he responds a bit to my approaching the tank. He still looks and acts like he's drunk. Very sluggish and still leaning over to the side. By day 13 he actually eats a few frozen blood worms! This is a momentous occasion and is followed by cheers and smiles all around the house!

Days 14,15, 16, 17 - The male is doing a little better each day, eating more and getting his color back very slowly. The female is eating like mad and actually nudging the male around a little. She still defers to him - which is odd - he was the dominant fish when they first were put in the tank - maybe she's anticipating a full recovery and doesn't want to piss him off! He is almost always head standing a little bit – at about a 45 degree angle. He sort of trolls around the bottom at that angle aimlessly. He does not appear to be able to see very well. His eyes are a little cloudy and he just runs through the food on the bottom sucking in as much as he can. The other one is much more surgical about the worms she snaps up. It appears that she sees them, tilts up to get her mouth down, and sucks them in – very precise. He drags his pelvic fins and breast along the bottom and seems to back up and suck in water when he feels something under him. He is working hard to eat but comparatively for each of the attempts he gets little return. The fact that he keeps on going until everything is gone provides him with an amount of food comparable to the amount the other one consumes – he’s just working harder for it. A little improvement every day. We remain hopeful.

My observations at this point: I spent a lot of time on the disease forum reading about all the bad things that happen to fish - luckily Al was able to convince me not to start throwing meds into the water. I know more about diseases that discus get than I ever thought I would - and in my mind - at one time or another over these past 2 weeks these discus had every one of them for sure! I'm glad Al was there to keep me reasonable. The stress level is so high when you're responsible for the lives of these beautiful fish - I can see how easy it would be to start throwing "magic cures" into the water. I think the most valuable lesson I've learned so far is patience. I also realize how important getting good healthy stock really is - if these fish hadn't been in such good health when I picked them up from Al - they would both most certainly be dead by now. Thanks Al.

I'll keep you updated. You know African cichlids were never this hard!

Adam

[Jennie]

wow, didn't realize you were having such a tough time! I'm with you on the meds thing too. Ask first, get multiple opinions, then treat! Hard way to start the hobby, but I hope you start to enjoy it soon and add to your collection.

[aquatic3]

Wow....exhausting thread of trial and tribulations. :( Your thread here is important lessons for others to learn from. Thank you for posting.

First of let me say how great it is to have Simply Discus...my daily read!

Your situation is one of the reasons I started my online journal at ADMIN EDIT: Link Removed. I wanted to help new aquarists who are interested in Planted Discus Aquariums, as well as veterans, to be well informed about the requirements for supporting such a project. The basic premise is planning and preparation and not to rush it. Plants and Discus together seem natural enough, but the two have totally different requirements that need to be well balanced and regulated. In my opinion, and I say this on my blog, a planted Discus aquarium should not be attempted in anything less than a 55-75 gallon tank. The larger the better.

Bottom line...if you want a beautiful Planted Discus tank make sure you plan, plan, plan and never jump into placing Discus into an planted aquarium until you have a firm grip on all facets of a planted Discus ecosystem:

1) Water Chemistry- Know your base water parameters ahead of time, RO/DI systems are most people's quick fix to what they feel is the best solution for an immediate problem. RO/DI removes all impurities from the water, such as toxic metals, but it also rips out all the natural elements as well both plant a fish require. Discus fish breading farms or BB tanks change 50% or more daily or weekly and RO/DI systems make sense for them, however they are not the answer for all aquarist. Where you live and what type of water you get well, aquifer, city processed water all effect the decisions you'll have to make.

2) Aquarium Prep- Based on what type, size, dimensions, gallons the aquarium you have, make sure you have the right equipment to support a planted discus tank such as Lighting, CO2, UV Sterilization, Filtration, Plumbing, Circulation etc.

3) Aquascaping- knowing what elements are being brought into the ecosystem is key (wood, rock and substrate). How it all gets prepped takes time. NOTE...I would never introduce high-end Discus to an environment with plants that came from PetCo or any other supplier without being quarantined or treated in a light chlorine bath before entering tank. That's just one prep item.

4) Aquarium Testing & Cycling- testing a tank before operation is key. Once set up both plants and Discus don't like to be moved. Get it right ahead of time. Testing your system is one thing. Nitrification Cycling is another and takes several weeks over 1 month and should be done with some cycling fish before Discus are ever introduced. Cycle with tank mates, plants then Discus.

5) Aquarium Plant Cycling- most planted discus tanks will need several months so that you can get the right balance or regiment of lighting, fertilization, C02 injection and WT (water changes). No point in stressing fish out with Algae Blooms, high levels of CO2, Fert or lack of oxygen, which are all common in first time set up for any planted tank. NOTE: most substrates are loaded with nutrients that are great for plants the first month. Its after those levels lower and you find where your plants are happiest and tank is not full of algae, when you can say....Let's get the Discus.

Some people may disagree....but all of the above....no matter the size of your planted Discus tank project can take months before you call your Discus breeder and receive into your aquarium your happy fish.

6) Discus Acclamation- when Discus are introduced you should have a very closely balanced ecosystem....one that will welcome or adjust to the additional waist from fish or uneaten food. However, its adjusting to the Nitrite/Nitrate levels, the balance of PH and Temp that must be maintained for the Discus to survive and flourish. Most aquarist will solve problems with massive water changes or staying away from a planted tank and sticking to a BB tank. That might be fine for most. However, for those interested in pursuing a well planted Discus tank preparation is paramount.

I'm an avid Simply Discus Fan....and this is the first of many posts I would like to start related to the development of a perfect planted Discus tank. Constructive feedback and criticisms are welcomed.
:D:D:D:D:D

[aalbina]

Thanks aquatic3 - good information here.


1) Water Chemistry- Know your base water parameters ahead of time, RO/DI systems are most people's quick fix to what they feel is the best solution for an immediate problem. RO/DI removes all impurities from the water, such as toxic metals, but it also rips out all the natural elements as well both plant a fish require. Discus fish breading farms or BB tanks change 50% or more daily or weekly and RO/DI systems make sense for them, however they are not the answer for all aquarist. Where you live and what type of water you get well, aquifer, city processed water all effect the decisions you'll have to make.

In my case - I would have had to have more than a basic water chemistry testing kit to find out that I had toxic levels of heavy metals in my tank. $45.00 to a local water testing company would have been worth it's price. I absolutely knew the water chemistry when it comes to normal parameters - and have successfully kept many other fish in the same water over the last 10 years. In my case - adding the good stuff back into RO water was a good decision over trying to treat the metals out. Product was just not working. Even with a planted tanks and cycling for months - I would still have had toxic levels of heavy metal in my tank. Better to spend a months savings on detailed quality water testing - to your first point. BTW I think RO water given my situation was not an easy answer to situation gone wrong - it was the only answer.


2) Aquarium Prep- Based on what type, size, dimensions, gallons the aquarium you have, make sure you have the right equipment to support a planted discus tank such as Lighting, CO2, UV Sterilization, Filtration, Plumbing, Circulation etc.

Yeah - a little bit more research would have helped me here. Although I think I had all that down prior to introducing the discus. The planted aquarium was only very lightly planted (one argentinian sword, a two kyoto grasses, a peacock fern, and some driftwood) so for 30 gallons we're not talking about a lot of plants. The problem was the flourite in combination with an already serious heavy metal problem. Let's be clear - I was much less interested in the plants doing well then the discus doing well.


3) Aquascaping- knowing what elements are being brought into the ecosystem is key (wood, rock and substrate). How it all gets prepped takes time. NOTE...I would never introduce high-end Discus to an environment with plants that came from PetCo or any other supplier without being quarantined or treated in a light chlorine bath before entering tank. That's just one prep item.

Sure - they were quarantined for 2-4 weeks depending on the plant, before discus were introduced. I think you present some great advice right here - especially if you already have fish in the tank! So then what - quarantine for 4 weeks and then what? Am I going to see something on the plants that will make me not put them in my discus tank? What do I look for? Are parasitic cysts going to be visible? Eggs? This would be great information to have for sure? I may put some plants back in the tank (besides the two potted kyoto grasses) at some point in the future.


4) Aquarium Testing & Cycling- testing a tank before operation is key. Once set up both plants and Discus don't like to be moved. Get it right ahead of time. Testing your system is one thing. Nitrification Cycling is another and takes several weeks over 1 month and should be done with some cycling fish before Discus are ever introduced. Cycle with tank mates, plants then Discus.

Hmm... there's a lot of conflicting advice out there about cycling a new tank. I have a cause no harm ethic I try very hard to live by and cycling the tank with a couple of "throw away" fish doesn't sit well with me. I really didn't want any tank mates with the discus - especially not before they were introduced. Many people here on SD have said to put discus in first - get them established and then add tank mates (after quarantine). I tried some cycle product and fishless cycling - and that didn't work. I got a sponge from my breeder - cut it up and added it to my filter. I've never had an ammonia problem in 20 days. Ammonia always reads 0ppm - nitrites 0ppm.

Great advice - I wish I had some of it earlier. I certainly would have stayed away from a planted tank, learned how to keep discus with fewer variables and then grown into a planted tank. For now BB is working!

Adam

[aquatic3]

Thanks for feedback...I apologize if you felt my post was condescending...I posted to as a message to all readers...I realized you were already down the road.

FYI- about cycling...I agree about using throw away fish...I was trying to infer that a natural cycle can be achieved in time...sped up with 30 days natural additives and then use tank mattes...cardinal tetras as the final cycle...they stay. For a true planted fish tank, which is what my focus is with the Aquatic3 Project, will take an additional 30+ days to balance out CO2, fertilization and other bumps in the road. So my suggestions, for other who are starting from day one is to cycle tank 30 days with plants, add tank mates another 30 and go from there. If all is well then add all you 6+ Discus.

Good luck:):)

[aalbina]

No worries - I didn't feel as though your post was condescending at all. Great information - I wish I had some of that before I started with a lightly planted aquarium. I've kept African Cichlids and South Amercian Cichlids for years and they both tear up planted aquariums so I have no experience with plants.

Some day - after these two grow out - maybe I will plant again.

Adam

[Jennie]

Adam, hows the fish progress report?? Haven't heard from you in awhile.:)

[aalbina]

Sorry about that - I work at a College in NH and when classes start - it's pretty tough to do anything but work just to get everyone off and running for the academic year. Things are slowing down a bit:)

I moved the non-recovering discus to a hospital tank, treated with Maracyn-2 for possibly an internal bacterial infection (hoping to get lucky) but no luck at all. It's sluggish behavior continues and it's eating less and less. I have some clove oil on hand and I will likely need to put him down this weekend - I feel pretty bad about it but certainly don't want this fish to suffer anymore. My breeder thinks its internal organs (liver,kidney etc.) were probably damaged by the toxins and it may never recover. I was hoping he was wrong and that it was a bacterial infection from being so weak - but once again, the breeder was right. Good thing I've been listening to the breeder all along.

The other discus is doing amazingly well but was getting more and more reserved and hiding behind drift wood without an active tank mate. Not wanting to stress this schooling breed anymore - we headed back to down to the breeder and picked up 2 more fish (both also red turks) of comparable size. Once in the main tank it only took about a week with the tank divider in place before all three were hanging out together with the divider in between them. Everyone was eating well, no stress bars all around - except when the male was nosing the female around - she gets a little stressed.

So we rearranged some decorations (one potted plant ;) ), took the divider out last night and settled in for what we hoped would be an uneventful introduction. We watched the natural pecking order quickly get established and then everyone settled down and had a little freeze dried California black worm snack!

Everyone is doing well this morning. Here's a photo of the fish hanging out after breakfast. Sorry for the poor quality. The lighting makes it look like their stress bars are up a bit - but actually they are pretty weak , usually not visible at all. They don't like me to be so close to the tank. The one in the middle is the lowest in the pecking order and her stress bars are almost always a little visible unless she's eating. Everyone seems to eat together just fine.

Still doing %30-%50 water changes daily, feeding pellet OM1, OM2 3x daily (auto feeder) Reef Flake on weekends (they don't really like it), BH once a day (just before water changes), and a frozen brine shrimp about once a week to keep them cleaned out. I throw in some FDCBW whenever they look hungry and there's no food on the bottom. They love them!

Now we're looking at the PETCO $1 a gallon sale and looking to pick up a 55 or a 70! And my wife suggested it!! We'll probably be back down to see Al before Christmas!

For someone who's kept fish for 20+ years - I thought I really knew what I was doing. Discus really are a whole different ball game. Watching oscars barrel roll in the tank, and africans rearrange the decorations is a lot of fun. Discus are MUCH more work - but just sitting in the room watching them push the potted plant around with their noses and charge their reflection in the glass with such tenacity and so beautifully flush with color - it's so worth it. My friends think I'm nuts - I'm glad all of you understand....

Adam

[Jennie]

so sorry top hear about the one sick one. the new ones look awsome.
Sorry about that - I work at a College in NH and when classes start - it's pretty tough to do anything but work just to get everyone off and running for the academic year. Things are slowing down a bit:)

I moved the non-recovering discus to a hospital tank, treated with Maracyn-2 for possibly an internal bacterial infection (hoping to get lucky) but no luck at all. It's sluggish behavior continues and it's eating less and less. I have some clove oil on hand and I will likely need to put him down this weekend - I feel pretty bad about it but certainly don't want this fish to suffer anymore. My breeder thinks its internal organs (liver,kidney etc.) were probably damaged by the toxins and it may never recover. I was hoping he was wrong and that it was a bacterial infection from being so weak - but once again, the breeder was right. Good thing I've been listening to the breeder all along.

The other discus is doing amazingly well but was getting more and more reserved and hiding behind drift wood without an active tank mate. Not wanting to stress this schooling breed anymore - we headed back to down to the breeder and picked up 2 more fish (both also red turks) of comparable size. Once in the main tank it only took about a week with the tank divider in place before all three were hanging out together with the divider in between them. Everyone was eating well, no stress bars all around - except when the male was nosing the female around - she gets a little stressed.

So we rearranged some decorations (one potted plant ;) ), took the divider out last night and settled in for what we hoped would be an uneventful introduction. We watched the natural pecking order quickly get established and then everyone settled down and had a little freeze dried California black worm snack!

Everyone is doing well this morning. Here's a photo of the fish hanging out after breakfast. Sorry for the poor quality. The lighting makes it look like their stress bars are up a bit - but actually they are pretty weak , usually not visible at all. They don't like me to be so close to the tank. The one in the middle is the lowest in the pecking order and her stress bars are almost always a little visible unless she's eating. Everyone seems to eat together just fine.

Still doing %30-%50 water changes daily, feeding pellet OM1, OM2 3x daily (auto feeder) Reef Flake on weekends (they don't really like it), BH once a day (just before water changes), and a frozen brine shrimp about once a week to keep them cleaned out. I throw in some FDCBW whenever they look hungry and there's no food on the bottom. They love them!

Now we're looking at the PETCO $1 a gallon sale and looking to pick up a 55 or a 70! And my wife suggested it!! We'll probably be back down to see Al before Christmas!

For someone who's kept fish for 20+ years - I thought I really knew what I was doing. Discus really are a whole different ball game. Watching oscars barrel roll in the tank, and africans rearrange the decorations is a lot of fun. Discus are MUCH more work - but just sitting in the room watching them push the potted plant around with their noses and charge their reflection in the glass with such tenacity and so beautifully flush with color - it's so worth it. My friends think I'm nuts - I'm glad all of you understand....

Adam

[aalbina]

The one on the right is one of the original fish that managed to overcome my iron issues - the other two are new.

Adam

[brewmaster15]

They Look great Adam.. I'm glad to see that they are doing so well.....:) ... as for the one that didn't make it....Its unfortunate but I think it did help you understand your particular water issues at the beginning of your discus Journey..

Best regards!

-al

[DerekFF]

Sounds like you didnt QT the 2nd batch? Unless you got them from Al again, but still its a good practice. Trust me I learned the hard way about not using good QT. Also i think youre messing with them to much. Glad theyre doing well, but you just stress them every time you panic and mess with them, their water, tank.

[aalbina]

Al and I took the precautions we felt were necessary - and I did get the second batch from Al.

After we figured out the water problem and solved it - there was no messing with them. I'm not sure what you mean - maybe you can help me understand? After the water issue was taken care of and the tank was modified to bare bottom - nothing else was done with the fish or the tank since then - that's going on over a month. I treated the sick one for a possible gram negative bacterial infection in a quarantine tank as a last hopeful action before I had to euthanize him this weekend and end his suffering.

The only change to their environment since the incident is water changes - daily at between 30% and 50%. What are you referring to as far as messing with them - am I doing something I shouldn't be? Did you read the whole post - I'm guessing no but it's certainly understandable given the length.

Adam

[Jennie]

nope, you're doing great:)