Breeeding heckel x heckel in Poland [Archive]

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Gajowa

07-25-2010, 06:33 PM

Hi
We haven't had much luck so far with breeding our heckels, but friend of ours had :) This is first heckels breeding in Poland
Him and his wife (Renata i Andrzej Nowicki of Superdiscus)) bought their heckels in January 2009 from the same source what ours are.
Have a look at this heckel parents with babies

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri9514E24dQ&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0GCZKLwwXk

Isn't that amazing?

DiscusKev

07-25-2010, 06:41 PM

Funny thing is, I was watching this video the other day :D

Anyhow, have you checked this thread out?

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?t=43094

Discus Origins

07-25-2010, 07:34 PM

Awesome videos....gives those of us Heckel enthusiasts hope!!

As for the older post, there was never an update past the initial pictures and I don't even believe Aquatechnics is still in business. Not sure if the batch of babies ever made it to adolescent size.

DiscusKev

07-25-2010, 07:52 PM

wgtaylor

07-25-2010, 08:34 PM

Thank you for the video and encouragement Barbara.
I hope that means yours are due any day now ! :D
Bill

Yogesh

07-25-2010, 10:49 PM

Very good clip.
Can't see other Heckel partner in the video though.:confused:

pan

07-26-2010, 01:52 PM

This is awesome video.This is one of my dreams.Congratulations to your friend.If he decides to sell the offspring of the couple and he can send to Greece keep me in mind.Thanks

kaceyo

07-26-2010, 02:54 PM

Very good clip.
Can't see other Heckel partner in the video though.:confused:

I notice that too. It won't be accepted as a Heckle x Heckle spawn unless both parents are in the pic with the fry.

DiscusKev

07-26-2010, 03:15 PM

Only Gajowa and her friend would know, I agree with Kacey though as it could easily be a cross with another discus and the other half was taking out of the tank.

Moon

07-26-2010, 04:20 PM

I agree. Heckel males will breed with other females. The trick is to get the females to spawn.
I've had mine for 3 years now and no signs of pairing activity at all. I've tried every thing. Now they are in my hard well water and I'm just enjoying them.

Rex82

07-26-2010, 06:15 PM

There looks to be 2 heckels in that vid to me.... thats proof enough for me. any chance of sharing water stats?

Larry Bugg

07-26-2010, 06:42 PM

There looks to be 2 heckels in that vid to me.... thats proof enough for me. any chance of sharing water stats?

Nope, thats not two heckels. Look again. It is the reflection of the one on the tank glass.

Gajowa

07-26-2010, 06:47 PM

DiscusKev

07-26-2010, 08:09 PM

Nope, thats not two heckels. Look again. It is the reflection of the one on the tank glass.

:D

Hi
There is a link to photos of Andrew's hatchery with heckels

http://www.superdiscus.pl/heckel.html

As far as I know, the ph of breeding water was 3,7. The region of Poland where he lives has an excelent water for breeding discus and he uses just tap water !!!

Fair enough.

Rex82

07-27-2010, 12:06 AM

Lol...I had better watch that vid again.

Yogesh

07-27-2010, 12:55 AM

Hi
There is a link to photos of Andrew's hatchery with heckels

http://www.superdiscus.pl/heckel.html

As far as I know, the ph of breeding water was 3,7. The region of Poland where he lives has an excelent water for breeding discus and he uses just tap water !!!
Hi Barbara,

Going by pictures evaluation in the link; couple of pics where you see both Heckels together, frys are totally missing.
Pictures where you see frys seem to have only one parent Heckel with them.

kaceyo

07-27-2010, 01:49 PM

Hi Barbara,

Going by pictures evaluation in the link; couple of pics where you see both Heckels together, frys are totally missing.
Pictures where you see frys seem to have only one parent Heckel with them.

That's the first thing I noticed too. I'm not saying it is deliberate, but it raises questions.

Larry Bugg

07-27-2010, 02:05 PM

Heckle x Heckle is rare enough that you really need verification. Hate to be that way but..........................

Yogesh

07-27-2010, 02:20 PM

Right, we are not acting as criticizers or spy but just verifying few facts.
IMO getting true wild-caught Heckel female spawning is close to impossible as many people tried & still waiting. And when you claim something like this rare incidence, please bring on all visible evidences. You will definitely get accolades from people.

Heiko Bleher

07-30-2010, 07:31 PM

Hi Barabara and all you guys,

I also looked very closely, and on one side I am very happy to see this happening in Poland, on the other side we know about Alberto who in 2005 bred them but we never hear from him again and never anyone (to my knowledge) knows what happend with the offspring.

Here, with the Polish breeding, and please Barabara have a look for yourself and please try to help, as you known them very well (and I have written about them extensively in my upcoming volume 2):

1. There is no pair anywhere to see on those two videos. Just on everyone a single very beautiful Rio Negro region Heckel Discus with babies (and one video is with a mirror reflection of the single fish).

2. The same is on the photographs. There is not one photograph with a Heckel Discus pair and young fishes with them, it is always a single one.

3. There is one single photograph (the second from the left, below the text in Polish stating the breeding and the date), where one can see two Discus together (which I think is the pair), and the one fish in front is the one who has the babies on the following photos and it is also the fish on the videos. But the discus behind on that picture is NOT a Heckel discus, but S. haraldi, a very nice Blue.

These facts from Photos and Film make me wonder, why did he never get a single photo or on film the pair together with the babies? Why? Maybe he can still do it?

Could you kindly tell us, and please write me an e-mail also, about my questions as I wanted to record this with pleasure still in volume 2. Would be nice.

All the very best und very nice to hear from you, and I hope you come to Naples, to Italy's gretest Discus Championships (200 entries so far) and Aquarium festival in Italy's history (one week before Duisburg...).

See you, and all the very best,

always

Heiko

Gajowa

07-31-2010, 07:11 AM

Hi Heiko

Andrzej said, that it was difficult to take photos, because heckels were in dark tank, and he didn't wanted disturb them. Now babies are seperate from the parents, and there is only 39 of them. Photos of the babies are on his website.
He will be in Naples, maybe you can talk to him there.

Heiko Bleher

07-31-2010, 05:35 PM

Hi Barbara,

thank you very much, that is very kind of you. I will talk to him in Naples and hopefully he has some pictures of some of the 39 babies.

Simply because all should have with the age of 3-4 month the typical centre bar.

Thanks again and all the very best, and hope to see you in Duisburg, if not in Naples... And actually in Duisburg I will have some beautiful wild new discus...

Always

Heiko

mountain_priest

09-10-2010, 12:30 PM

i do have a confirmed pair of blue face heckels(from Hans thru LFS that he supplies). late last year they finally had wigglers after many unsuccessful spawn in my community tank unfortunately all fries got eaten after they were free swimming by the other fishes in the tank. they are now on their own tank and am preparing them for breeding again, if my setup is successful lol

Gajowa

10-28-2010, 10:55 AM

Hi Barbara,

thank you very much, that is very kind of you. I will talk to him in Naples and hopefully he has some pictures of some of the 39 babies.

Simply because all should have with the age of 3-4 month the typical centre bar.

Always

Heiko

There is an update on Andrew's website. Heckel babies are 3 mth old and yes they have typical centre bar. Not many are left.

http://www.superdiscus.pl/heckel.html

You can see the pair guarding the eggs on the photos as well.

Skip

10-28-2010, 11:28 AM

i would like to see a WARLOCK x POLISH :gorgeous: (my fav!!)

:D

Tito

10-28-2010, 12:55 PM

One of those pics does show two Heckels and fry by the spawning cone.

kaceyo

10-28-2010, 01:56 PM

One of those pics does show two Heckels and fry by the spawning cone.

More than one photo shows fry and adults near a cone. Very interesting photo's. I would have liked to see pics of the fry feeding on the parents though.
How many of the spawn survived? Are Heckel fry more susceptible to pathogens or water related problems than other wild strains fry? I know water conditions are more critical for heckels in general, but I'd guess that was well in hand or there wouldn't be any heckle fry to begin with.

ockyra215

10-28-2010, 07:58 PM

Well Its a nice looking heckle adult!
Would of been nice to see both parents and fry together.
Even if its a wild and domestic cross still cool! Hard to say were they a true pair?
What happend to the fry.Good luck with them.

Tito

10-28-2010, 08:37 PM

Jennie

10-28-2010, 08:49 PM

Great looking fish regardless

ockyra215

10-28-2010, 11:09 PM

:DMan i missed the website pics.I recant my statement! Way cool to see a heckle pair doing thier thing very cool!

Apistomaster

11-12-2010, 05:42 PM

The pair and juveniles certainly look to me like a real pair of Heckels and the fry look like they could only be those of two real S. discus.

I think so few who have tried or hoped for their Heckels to spawn, myself included, never provided them a pH of about 3.5 and no measurable hardness. If Heckels are not kept in that type of water then breeding them stand virtually no chance. I believe the same applies to Pterophyllum altum. These fish have evolved to thrive in water conditions which scare the hell out of most Discus keepers and that almost automatically precludes successful breeding.

I have only kept some small species in water that extreme with Cattapa leaf litter.
My 20 long has about 20 Poeciliocharax weitzmani in RO water not passed through a mixed bed deionization filter so the TDS is >15 ppm from water taken from their tank and the pH is always between 3.5 and 4.0. These little ambush hunting, oddball Tetras eat only living food for me. Keeping Discus sized aquarium water with these chemical attributes is difficult and demanding work few dare to try. The fellow who bought my 10 Heckels is providing them these water conditions and although he has not gotten any further with breeding the pairs he kept they sure are a lot prettier than when I was keeping them in tap water. It helps when you have a 300 gpd RO unit because water changes are more important than ever when working with such extremely soft acid water.
he uses Muriactic acid to lower the ph and some Cattapa leaf litter. These leaves are good for contributing the weak organic acids and tannins which give black water it's name.
I have no way of proving this but I suspect Heckels begin breeding later in life than either S. aequifasciata and S. haraldi.

Gajowa

11-19-2010, 12:47 PM

In Andrew's hatchery next pair of heckel discus has formed and on 15,11,2010 at 2 pm laid eggs. Female heckel is in front

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0iqgMPg7t0s

and on 17. 11. 2010 at 3 pm larva's hatched

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DKdFXF3pVc

This time he recorded everything

prolude006

11-19-2010, 06:47 PM

Looks great, thanks for the videos Barb!

DAvid

William Palumbo

11-19-2010, 10:31 PM

Thanks Barb for the videos. Andrew obviously is doing something right! Look like two "true" Heckels to me. Can we agree that they are indeed the real deal? Would like to know any and all info/tips on his methods. Look like they can and will spawn in captivity after all Very impressed!...Bill

William Palumbo

11-19-2010, 10:31 PM

AirCapital

11-19-2010, 11:01 PM

now thats how you silence a crowd...lol great job!!!!

DiscusKev

11-19-2010, 11:46 PM

Thanks for sharing, I don't recall the juvenile pic of the heckel, they look awesome with their heckel bar! Stand out real great

Gajowa

11-20-2010, 06:21 AM

Thanks for sharing, I don't recall the juvenile pic of the heckel, they look awesome with their heckel bar! Stand out real great

The photos are in the link on page 2 of that thread. But I will give you that link again.

http://www.superdiscus.pl/heckel.html

There are 20 youngsters left from 1-st spawn

mikeos

11-20-2010, 07:05 AM

Fantastic Barbara, please convey my congratulations to Andrew & Renata

kaceyo

11-20-2010, 02:06 PM

That's great! Alot of people will be interested in the details of producing that spawn.
Congrats!!!

hekdiscus

11-21-2010, 03:06 PM

Congratulation ..... very good.......

aequifasciatus

11-21-2010, 06:27 PM

Well, well, well. Excellent stuff. If they aren't true Heckels then it's outstanding Photoshop work :) :) :)
I haven't seen that since Don Handley bred Heckels many years ago.
Congratulations

Aequifasciatus

Heiko Bleher

11-27-2010, 04:49 PM

Hi,

well these are for sure true Symphysodon discus - Heckel discus - from the Rio negro basin. And barabara please also convey my sincere congratulations to Andrew & Renata.
I believe the trigger number one was the pH 3.5 and a recent water change. (And probably a low conductivity.)

Again best regards from a collector

Heiko Bleher

greekmystique

11-28-2010, 03:53 PM

I have actually been studying the water parameters of the Rio Negro over the last week thinking about a solution for another thread. I found that even though the main tributaries are around ph5.5 with very dilute nutrients, the side streams and submerged forest areas are often as low as ph3.5 with an even higher dilution of nutrients. So this makes alot of sense lol. It looks like it will be a long road towards acclimatizing these wild genetics and it's exciting to know that it starts now! Excellent work!

Gajowa

11-29-2010, 05:08 PM

Hi
This is a short note that Andrew wrote

Hi Heiko
Thank you very much for your kind words. Your congratulations is the award of recognition for me .
I am sure you will be in Poland again, and already now I would like to invite you to visit my hatchery and to see for yourself my heckel pairs and they offsprings.

I also greet all users of the SymplyDiscus .
Andrew

Eddie

12-07-2010, 02:39 PM

Those Juvies look stunning! So nice!