My Name is Skip.. and i have a problem

[Skip]

I am a Discus-A-holic...

BUT.. i rushed things! my tank is a week old..
i have 5 little juvies in a 30 gallon.. with 4 little corys to clean up food

Filters: RENA smartfilter, Aquaclear HOB and Magnum 220 canister..

i did 3 water changes in 3 days.. then my fish seemed to not like that.. i lost my first little guys this morning.. so i was afraid to do another 50% WC..

i have/had cloudy water.. from what i understand it was a bacteria bloom, which is normal cycle.. i am using Tap water, ph 7.6-7.8, no Nitrate/Nitrite. Ammonia 1-1.5 ppm.. Temp is about 85-86 degrees.

2 sword plants/2 wisteria/2 moss balls..

i did not do another WC. for fear of freaking them out again.. i was going to get some ammo chips for the magnum at lunch.. to remove the Ammonia.. (i used AmmoLock 2 days ago).. so it may still be giving me a false reading..

like i said... i rushed it.. so i don't need to be told that part..

but i have a 125 that i will be setting up.. so i wanted to try it on a smaller scale to see get started.. before investing in the big set up...

two questions..
so i continue to feed or refrain for a day or 2..?

well, the ammo chips help to remove the excess ammonia.??

should i do another WC today.. or let it settle down alittle?

thanks..

skip : )

[mmorris]

Did you buy them locally? If so, perhaps you can purchase a cycled sponge from them. Resist the urge to get a cycled sponge from anyone else.

[Skip]

i bought 2 locally.. 3 from Gulf Coast Discus (but they are 2 hrs away)..

but that is a great idea..i will look into! Thanks!...

[kleankord]

Where are you located? I'm assuming houston?

[peterhql]

Just from my experience...
You're filtration seems more than adequate so... you should be able to soft cycle without doing much harm to the fish. I would feed them VERY VERY little once a day if not every other day. I also do a smaller water change once a day, 30-40 percent a day after feeding w/seachem prime.

Also, although their usefulness is debated, I've used seachem stability on 3 uncycled tanks with what I described above and I've never had huge spikes in ammonia or any fish deaths.

Obviously it's better not to be in this situation, but I've gotten away with this many many times now. Just don't feed them much and water change after they eat/poop.

After the water is crystal clear, you're over the hump.

[Discus master]

I would think that water changes would be your best friend at this point that and prime as the water chnages will help remove the amnia and nitrites and the priem will help also I would do this for as long as needed untill those levels come down own there own do a water test every morning to check the levels.

[peterhql]

To my knowledge, very frequent and very large water changes, something like 80% more than once a day, will severely slow down your cycle. Could take months. I'd do one small one right after feeding/pooping to make it count.

I was cycled in less than 2 weeks from what I was doing. I had nine 3-4 inch discus in a 55 gallon. (s0rry overstocked) with one hydro v and one aquaclear 70. Ammonia never got out of hand and was mostly gone after 3-4 days.

Maybe its the seachem stability working. I think most people that rush things also overfeed. Gotta starve them a little so that things get settled.

[Skip]

ok.. i went and bought RENA ammonia filter bag.. and stuck it in my RENA smartfilter.. it has lots of room once you pull out the 2 middle sections...

i just now did a 20% change during lunch.. they already seem a little happier.. !! i will do another when i get off at 5pm..

i use 2 drop of prime in the new gallons of water i put in.. i put in 2 drops per gallon that was in existing thank..

thanks for the info.. guys/gals.. i am just happy to have made this mistake or have this problem on this tank instead of 125 gallon..

i just tested.. looks like .5 to 1 ppm.. i will test again when i get home.. !

[Skip]

Where are you located? I'm assuming houston?

austin

[DonMD]

Regarding the question about large w/c's delaying the cycling process . . .

I can report that in my 125 gallon with 11 6-inch discus, I absolutely crashed the bio filter. (Treating for flukes, I removed all media from 2 canisters and boiled it - no bio filter). Then, daily 90% w/c's for the first 2 weeks, lowered to 75%, then after exactly 5 weeks finally showed zero nitrites.

Five weeks to cycle a large tank with large fish using 2 canister filters.

I've never had any luck adding commercial bacteria products. It just seems to take 5 weeks.

[peterhql]

Were you successful in treatment? What meds did you use?

[Eddie]

Do you use aged water or straight tap?

Ammonia binding products or media are counterproductive if you are trying to get your filter cycled. At this point, smashing out daily water changes are gonna be your best bet. Use a product like Prime or Safe, it will convert any ammonia to ammonium which is non toxic to your fish and the bio bed can still establish (cycle).

Also, NOTE: Using prime will give you false readings for ammonia because it is also registering the ammonium (non-toxic).

Eddie

[DerekFF]

Go buy some Safe Start from your LFS. Itll help cycle your tank in a hurry as you already seem to have ammonia and nitrites. The small bottle costs like...$10 i think and does 30gallons. Theres a bigger bottle for about $25 and it does a lot more. I cycled a 15gal tank in 4 days using Safe Start

[Skip]

Eddie.. i am using tap.. i live in apt. and don't have room to age water other then maybe 5 gallons at a time if i get a bucket... my concern here is PH difference.. i have read that str8 tap has different PH then aged water..

i have a Zeolite ammonia remover pouch, inside my RENA SMARTFILTER, i took out the 2 compartments and it fits just rite (still have the bio media in there also).. my Aquaclear filter is still running and i took out the Carbon from Magnum 220 and put in Ammonia chips instead.. i hope this removes excess toxins..

i have used prime in the water changes and added stresszyme and stress coat...

they seem alittle more aware rite now.. and i hope this will help them recover.. i just don't know about the false readings i would get from PRIME>.

[Eddie]

Eddie.. i am using tap.. i live in apt. and don't have room to age water other then maybe 5 gallons at a time if i get a bucket... my concern here is PH difference.. i have read that str8 tap has different PH then aged water..

i have a Zeolite ammonia remover pouch, inside my RENA SMARTFILTER, i took out the 2 compartments and it fits just rite (still have the bio media in there also).. my Aquaclear filter is still running and i took out the Carbon from Magnum 220 and put in Ammonia chips instead.. i hope this removes excess toxins..

i have used prime in the water changes and added stresszyme and stress coat...

they seem alittle more aware rite now.. and i hope this will help them recover.. i just don't know about the false readings i would get from PRIME>.


Aside from aging, check your tank water prior to performing a water change and then check your tap. I don't like sways in excess of .2. If you have a fairly close PH, you can do large water changes straight from tap. If this is the case, I'd honestly remove all that ammonia reducing media and rely on water changes to control the cycle. Generally 50% daily keep things in check. The cycle will take longer but the fish will be happier. If you do decide to use SafeStart (works well), then you will not do any water changes. Follow the instructions on the bottle exactly, it works.

Eddie

[Willie]

like i said... i rushed it.. so i don't need to be told that part..

but i have a 125 that i will be setting up.. so i wanted to try it on a smaller scale to see get started.. before investing in the big set up...

First thing you do is to make sure the 125 is cycled. You don't do that by making water changes or using ammonia chips. Move your filter from the 30 to the 125 and you're cycled. If you can't do that, run your existing filters in the 30 for 3 weeks and they get seeded.

If your 125 tank is cycled, you can use fresh water and drop the fish right in. Like you said, don't rush it this time. Making a mistake is just part of the learning process. Repeating the mistake is just ...

Good luck, Willie

[Skip]

thanks guy!! i seem to have the ammonia levels dropped to about .25/.5 ppm..! i have some plants in there to help alittle..

eddie.. i put in some safestart!! they look much happier.. but another one seems like he is having a tough time to recover.. i have lost 2 so far : (

but the tank is getting cycled which is important..

i will be removing the ammonia chippers from magnum canister.. i am thinking about putting in some BIOLOGICAL media instead of carbon.. and take out the carbon from aquaclear and put in more BIO media

whatcha think??

[Discus master]

Regarding the question about large w/c's delaying the cycling process . . .

I can report that in my 125 gallon with 11 6-inch discus, I absolutely crashed the bio filter. (Treating for flukes, I removed all media from 2 canisters and boiled it - no bio filter). Then, daily 90% w/c's for the first 2 weeks, lowered to 75%, then after exactly 5 weeks finally showed zero nitrites.

Five weeks to cycle a large tank with large fish using 2 canister filters.

I've never had any luck adding commercial bacteria products. It just seems to take 5 weeks.

So in other words large frquent water changes did not slow down the cyle time in your tank? 5 weeks is real close to the norm anyways this is what it took mine 55 gallon well closer to 6 weeks and I did 80% daily every day.

[PC1]

Im new to discus and this forum but it seems like alot of you cycle as you are using it as the primary tank. I have always cycled then added the main inhabatants. Funny how many ways ppl do things.

[Jennie]

just a few people do not wait. and then theres trouble
Im new to discus and this forum but it seems like alot of you cycle as you are using it as the primary tank. I have always cycled then added the main inhabatants. Funny how many ways ppl do things.

[PC1]

That makes sense, I'm 33 and have had at least 1 aquarium going since I was 10 breeding fancy guppies and taking them to the LFS (still remember the old lady who ran it.) Got my first kingsnake on store credit from guppies. Wow did that start a ripple effect. Reptiles took me to 3 diff countries and forced me to buy a house with an extra room. lol. Now down to only a few but man I had hundreds for years. Soooo much work! All cuz of those damn guppies! lol

[kaceyo]

Do you use aged water or straight tap?

Ammonia binding products or media are counterproductive if you are trying to get your filter cycled. At this point, smashing out daily water changes are gonna be your best bet. Use a product like Prime or Safe, it will convert any ammonia to ammonium which is non toxic to your fish and the bio bed can still establish (cycle).

Also, NOTE: Using prime will give you false readings for ammonia because it is also registering the ammonium (non-toxic).

Eddie

Agreed. Large daily wc's and an ammonia detoxifier are what's needed here.

[Skip]

NO MORE Ammonia!! i have a hydro sponge filter (actually two, getting it ready for another tank).. and to hang on back with bio media and sponges in them too!!

i detected no ammonia.. i did WC and i will test again later today to see if there is a differance!! : )))

yea!!!

ps.. the little guys are doing great.. they wait for me at glass for food and are not a afraid during WC.. they recover in about 10 min before they are running around again!! :angel:

[sion]

you must age tap water as the chlorine will wipe your bio out ..

[Skip]

I use PRIME to get rid of Chlorine.. :D

[Skip]

just to report.. fish are going great!!! Vibrant colors in the PBld & BluDia! no ammonia in the test (api yellow, is very pretty!!)

i had two hydro sponge filters and 2 HOB (w/o bio media inplace of Carbon)..

i just expanded to a 29 g, tank... i moved the ORIginal Hydro sponge into the new tank, where i have 13 around quarter sized (mas y minos) fry.. i picked up from Deepflyball.. Flachen x snakeskin!!

i am going to put in brand new sponge into the establish tank.. to seed that one also.. and/or just more bio filtration..

i picked up 6 hydro's from peterhql.. so i have plenty of them..

thanks SD for all the info..

Ps. is it a bad thing that i know sit in front of my discus tank instead of my TV.. :D:D

[DerekFF]

Ps. is it a bad thing that i know sit in front of my discus tank instead of my TV.. :D:D

Bro.....i sit in front of my discus tank with my laptop and watch netflix/hulu and my fish, only way my nights work lol. Its normal

[Skip]

Here is my Juvie Tank.. :D these are the little guys ya'll helped me save (for most part)..:angel:

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0032.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0033.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0035.jpg

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0047.jpg

[Skip]

i have noticed.. that my fish of the same colors are starting to hang out with each other.. is this common? do they stick to their KIND?

if so.. i assume.. you would never have a Pigeon blood/Blue Diamond hybrid?

jus wondering.. :wave::singer:

[kaceyo]

i have noticed.. that my fish of the same colors are starting to hang out with each other.. is this common? do they stick to their KIND?

if so.. i assume.. you would never have a Pigeon blood/Blue Diamond hybrid?

jus wondering.. :wave::singer:

I've noticed that also. Could it be that they get used to the way their siblings look as they grow?

[Eddie]

if so.. i assume.. you would never have a Pigeon blood/Blue Diamond hybrid?

jus wondering.. :wave::singer:

Pigeon Bloods and Blue Diamonds hybrids exist. They are not a good mix. :o

[Skip]

wow!! LOL>> Eddie! i will make sure to CULL any eggs if i have that HYBRID were to appear!!:antlers:

[Tito]

I would have used Biospira and called it a day. lol

[Skip]

I would have used Biospira and called it a day. lol

thanks tito!

where were ya when i needed ya!! :D

but that looks like good stuff.. i will have to keep it in mind next time : )

[Discus master]

i have noticed.. that my fish of the same colors are starting to hang out with each other.. is this common? do they stick to their KIND?

if so.. i assume.. you would never have a Pigeon blood/Blue Diamond hybrid?

jus wondering.. :wave::singer:

Iam not sure abotu that what I wanted to point out to you is you should check you one check valve on your air line it looks like I see the ones arrow going in the oppisite direction? they are suppose to point away from the air supply. In other words the arrow is suppose to point in the travel of the air flow. It could just be how you have your air lines set up but it really looks like it in the wrong direction double check that and let me know what you find:confused:

[Skip]

they pump is on shelf.. and they hose are hanging down.. each line is going to its own hydro.. but i will check when i get home.. :D

hope i did it right..

if not, then i am Ra-Tard.. kind of reminds me when i was talking to computer customer service a long time ago.. i asked what kinds of stupid questions were out there..

they told me they had people call that the drink COASTER on their computer broke.. or they could not find the "ANY KEY" to press.. :confused:

:D

[Discus master]

they pump is on shelf.. and they hose are hanging down.. each line is going to its own hydro.. but i will check when i get home.. :D

hope i did it right..

if not, then i am Ra-Tard.. kind of reminds me when i was talking to computer customer service a long time ago.. i asked what kinds of stupid questions were out there..

they told me they had people call that the drink COASTER on their computer broke.. or they could not find the "ANY KEY" to press.. :confused:

:D

I am still looking for the any key I am starting to think it must be only on special models or something:p

Yeah it may be the orientaion of the air lines but from my view it looks like it could be in backwards youll have to check it out and let me know.

[Skip]

here is pics of my Fry.. from TCT (LSS + 1 Virgin Red hybrid), Deepflyball(FlachenxSnakeSkin) & Yim11 (Brilliant Turqs)!
from my first week with them (9/11/10)

http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0048.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0051.jpg
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/Discus/DSCI0052.jpg

Today... how are they looking? (photos getting better!)
1
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0269.jpg
2
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0270.jpg
3
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0271.jpg
4
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0256.jpg
5
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0259.jpg
6
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0263.jpg
7
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0265.jpg

8 Virgin Red cross (my fav!)
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0266.jpg
9
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0267.jpg
10
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0247.jpg
11
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0249.jpg
12
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0250.jpg
13
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0253.jpg
14
http://i982.photobucket.com/albums/ae302/skiptex/9_27_10/DSCI0243.jpg