Starting from scratch

[CajunAg]

Hello all,

I'd like to get some thoughts from you all about my planned discus setup. I am a true beginner, I haven't had fish since my 10 gal kit tank in the 8th grade. I have decided to return to the hobby, but with a bang by going to discus. Now, I may be a beginner but I love to learn and being engineer, I worry about the details. I am in the very early planning stages right now, but I'd like to start ironing out major decisions so I can talk to the LFS here in Houston w/ confidence.

Anyways, my ideas for my tank:
1) Tank: 65 gal Aqueon pre-drilled, 36x18x18. I'd like to get a pre-drilled b/c I eventually want to upgrade the discus to a bigger tank and start a salty setup, which brings me to...
2) Filtering: Since I eventually would like to dabble in saltwater, I figured it be good to get a wet/dry filtration system to become familiar with it. The fact that I have heard it is "overkill" for freshwater is encouraging, but it seems that most on this forum do not use it. Another option is something like a Emperor 400 w/ or w/o a HOT Magnum canister. Cost and noise are a factor, but I am more concerned about the well-being of the fish.
3) Tank mates: Cardinal Tetra, bristle nose. Based on my size tank, with something like 6 discus in it, how many of each would you recommend I could support? I realize filtering is a factor, but I welcome any opinions on both!
4) Setup: sand substrate with driftwood, a few hardy plants like Java Fern or Anubias, maybe some rocks.
5) Purpose: simply to enjoy these majestic fish. I don't plan on breeding or showing, but I do want them happy.
6) Water: I've heard Houston has hard, slightly akaline water, would an RO be advisable? I found a counter top (http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm) unit that wouldn't require me to alter my apartment's plumbing.

That's far from all the questions I have, but I think this will be a good start.

Thanks,
CajunAg

[Eddie Wells]

CajunAg can not help you with the first 5 questions since I am BB only, but on your water in Houston I live about 100 miles north of you and if your not interested in breeding use the water that you have. Mine is ph-7.0 out of the tap and 7.6 after sitting for a few hours, gh is like 4 Kh is 11 tds are over 600 and my discus are doing great. If breeding in the future then RO might be needed. Water is great though if not going to breed now. And it's a lot easier and cheaper and the discus love it. Hope this helps on one question anyway.

Eddie Wells

[Skip]

Hello all,

I'd like to get some thoughts from you all about my planned discus setup. I am a true beginner, I haven't had fish since my 10 gal kit tank in the 8th grade. I have decided to return to the hobby, but with a bang by going to discus. Now, I may be a beginner but I love to learn and being engineer, I worry about the details. I am in the very early planning stages right now, but I'd like to start ironing out major decisions so I can talk to the LFS here in Houston w/ confidence.

Welcome to SD.. don't go to ANY LFS! go see Dustin or John at Houston Aquarium Warehouse/Gulf Coast Discus.. he has quality fish, good prices and in Houston Tap water!!!



1) Tank: 65 gal Aqueon pre-drilled, 36x18x18. I'd like to get a pre-drilled b/c I eventually want to upgrade the discus to a bigger tank and start a salty setup, which brings me to...

thats a good great size tank, you will do just fine with the little guys.. maybe think about painting bottom/back.. there is a great thread in here somewhere.. about the benefits and methods.. i should have done that first but alas, its a little late



2) Filtering: Since I eventually would like to dabble in saltwater, I figured it be good to get a wet/dry filtration system to become familiar with it. The fact that I have heard it is "overkill" for freshwater is encouraging, but it seems that most on this forum do not use it. Another option is something like a Emperor 400 w/ or w/o a HOT Magnum canister. Cost and noise are a factor, but I am more concerned about the well-being of the fish.

I think you need to prepare for DISCUS first, idk anything about w/d filter.. but what i have learned is that you want LOTS OF BIOLOGICAL filtration.. i personal have 2 HOB (hang on back, with no carbon, sponge and bio media) and a Hydro 4 sponge filter.. some just have just sponge filters..


3) Tank mates: Cardinal Tetra, bristle nose. Based on my size tank, with something like 6 discus in it, how many of each would you recommend I could support? I realize filtering is a factor, but I welcome any opinions on both!


stick to just discus first, get them established and eating regular.. they will be skittish for awhile, they don't need anybody else making them nervous.. i want to add some later, but i do alot of watching of behavior so i can tell if there are any changes i should worry about when/if i intro tankmates..



4) Setup: sand substrate with driftwood, a few hardy plants like Java Fern or Anubias, maybe some rocks.

i hear the Filter sand for Pools, white is pretty good stuff, i will do that when i set up my big tank.. When you go and see dustin.. you will see the fantastic Driftwood pieces he has there!! you i will love it!! trust me!! i have a couple of plants in my Bare Bottom.. jus cus i like do give them something to hid behind or just play with..



5) Purpose: simply to enjoy these majestic fish. I don't plan on breeding or showing, but I do want them happy.
6) Water: I've heard Houston has hard, slightly akaline water, would an RO be advisable? I found a counter top (http://www.freedrinkingwater.com/ro-counter-detail.htm) unit that wouldn't require me to alter my apartment's plumbing.

i am in in for the same purpose as you!!, hence why you should go and see dustin since his fish are in Houston Tap.. ps.. you will need a Quality Heater!! that should be before 2nd after filteration.. the only people using RO water are mostly breeders.. that is probably a couple of years away from both of us.. but stick to the tap water.. i am in an APT also.. i don't age the water, but PRIME is the best product.. i drain the tank and just add str8 from tap.. kind of warm.. not hot, or not cold.. in between.. they get used to the WC .. eventually.. if i can tell you one thing.. DON"T TRY TOO MUCH AT FIRST!! just stick to water, fish, WC, heater and feeding..then add the others stuff part by part. if you don't mind losing money when fish die, then do it all at once!! but if listen only one thing i say.. please just cycle your tank BEFORE adding fish!! of course, i am not a discus guru.. but i did sleep in a holiday inn express.. ps. get a freshwater test kit from API! .. good luck.. Skip.... :angel:

[CajunAg]

Thanks for the advice warlock, I sorta was grouping the Houston Aquarium Warehouse/ Gulf Coast Discus guys in the "LFS" group, but I will definitely be stopping there soon! It sounds like (from you and others) those are the go-to people for the advice and equipment I need.

I also like your suggestion on the pool sand, that was what I was leaning toward.

My plan was to try and get the tank operating with the less-expensive and somewhat hardier tank mates, and then once the tank has been doing well and stabilized, then add the discus. I was hoping that with the cardinals as dithering fish, the discus might be a little less shy.

Thanks for the warm welcome, and please, keep the advice/criticism coming!

[Skip]

Cajun.. i am just letting you know what i had to learn.. the hard way.. LOL>... but i felt i was doing too much.. once i put the water in the barebottom tank. i was WHOA! i love it!!! i actually have some long driftwood pieces i got from Dustin's place.. just so its no so barren in the tank, all the have is the spongefilter.. they to like the area.. if you want tank mates.. i started with little cory cats. .at least they clean up the bottom as needed.. IMHO.. i would rather have bottom feeders in my tank, esp. to cycle at the begininng.. ps. dustin has a thank with about 10 big discus, a herd of 30 cory cats, and school of about 35 cardinal tetras.. white sand, and long driftwood stalks.. and maybe a plant or two .. its pretty nice.. check it out.. ps. he has pretty good prices. SANS shipping.. since you live there.. good luck.. have fuN!

[tcyiu]

2) Filtering: ... wet/dry filtration system ... Cost and noise are a factor, but I am more concerned about the well-being of the fish.

Firstly welcome. I have an engineering background so the whole wet/dry thing was just soooo attractive. More technology and gadgetry to tweak and fiddle with.

Here are some thoughts:

1. Good bio filtering can be done with almost any type of filter. W/D is not your only option. Any good bio filter will take care of ammonia/ammonium and nitrites. Once the nitrate stage is reached, water changes (WC) are really the only practical way to remove them. [IF you really like tweaking, you might try a de-nitrifying filter to remove nitrates but that's a whole 'nuther topic].

2. I have found that with my set up, the water was never crystal clear. In my experience, canister filters do a superior job of mechanical filtration. Wet/dry filters work on gravity feed. If you put too fine a mesh on the incoming hose, it reduces water flow as it clogs and screws up the "balance" of the inflow vs. outflow. So there is constant adjustment. But with a large mesh, the fine particulates are not trapped. If you go with a filter mat as the mechanical filter, the water often just flows around.

3. In winter (and when the air conditioning is on), there is horrendous heat loss through evaporation. Besides the waste of electricity, water replacement is a pain, and doing so adds more dissolved solids to the tank (unless you use distilled or RO water).

3. I set one up and it was humming along. Literally. That half of the house was constantly humming. I could not reduce the pump noise, and the water movement noise was killing me. I got the water noise to go away by reducing the flow, but the fish were starting to show signs of distress (i.e. not enough filtering).

I gave up and took down the whole thing. If I have time, I might try it again. I invested 4-5 months of messing around and 100's of dollars in pumps and PVC fittings. But for now, I feel canisters is the way to go.

Just to offer one perspective.

HTH,
Tim

[CajunAg]

Thanks Tim, I am also an engineer and can appreciate wanting to tinker and make elegant solutions work.

I had to laugh at your "winter...and when the air conditioning is on" b/c here in Houston the A/C is always on! Life would be quite unbearable w/o it, but I suspect that my evaporation losses will also be quite high as you mentioned.

Did you buy or make your own wet/dry?

Thanks again

[tcyiu]

It's a TruVue unit which measures 30"L x 14"W x 17"H.

I got 2 of them for $20 each!!! Gotta love Craigslist. From the same gal, I bought for $25, a humungous W/D (3'x3'x2') that must have served as a central filter for a store.

Man, I live for moments like that ;)

The unit I used was way overkill for my 60gal show tank. But since I eventually planned on getting a larger tank, I went with it. On the advice of members here, I bought an Eheim 1262 pump which is also overkill. Somehow I got a dud because that thing vibrates that half of the house.

The costliest part of my experiment was the pump and all the PVC fittings. The various other doodads I fashioned out of miscellaneous items from my parts bin. So the costs were pretty minimal.

Tim