Beginner needs some help

[SGmenace]

Ph - 6.5
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 0.25
KH - 1 degree
temp - 84

A bit of back ground info:
I have a 45 gallon planted tank with a Eheim 2217 that has been set up for about 9 months with 8 teras and a few Japonica shrimp (thinking about removing the tetras until the discus are more conformable). this tank has always been intended for discus.

Problem:
The 5 discus seems to be acting normally, establishing a pecking order, not really hiding, colors quite a bit darker then when I purchased them. Iv only had them for 3 days. Over the past 3 days I noticed at least one of them had some white segmented feces so I started dosing with Metronidazole just incase any have parasites. Also, I cant get them to eat Iv tried frozen blood worms, frozen krill, and discus flakes with no luck! Im just looking for some feedback on my water parameters and how I can get these guys eating?

Thanks!

[Skip]

Ph - 6.5
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 0.25
KH - 1 degree
temp - 84

A bit of back ground info:
I have a 45 gallon planted tank with a Eheim 2217 that has been set up for about 9 months with 8 teras and a few Japonica shrimp (thinking about removing the tetras until the discus are more conformable). this tank has always been intended for discus.

Problem:
The 5 discus seems to be acting normally, establishing a pecking order, not really hiding, colors quite a bit darker then when I purchased them. Iv only had them for 3 days. Over the past 3 days I noticed at least one of them had some white segmented feces so I started dosing with Metronidazole just incase any have parasites. Also, I cant get them to eat Iv tried frozen blood worms, frozen krill, and discus flakes with no luck! Im just looking for some feedback on my water parameters and how I can get these guys eating?

Thanks!

i could take a week for them to settle down..

how many water changes have you done since they went in?
did you test for ammonia?

[aalbina]

Ph - 6.5
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 0.25
KH - 1 degree
temp - 84

Congrats on the new fish! There are two parameters missing above that are of critical importance - ammonia and nitrate levels. The smart folks here that can help you are going to need to know those figures. Also - they are going to want to know what your water change schedule is: how often to change water, do you age the water, treat the water with a conditioner, and what percentage of water do you change when you change water. Someone should be able to give advice if you can supply these pieces of information.

In the disease forum - there is a questionnaire that you can find in the stickies, and then copy and paste it into a message and answer those questions. Some one in that forum can certainly help you if you fill out that questionnaire.

Good luck!

[SGmenace]

Hey thanks for responding!

Iv done one 50% water change and that was yesterday. How often and how much water would you recommend to change over the next few days when there acclimatizing to there new home. I don't have an ammonia test kit, I'll have to pick one up today

[Jennie]

still need the ammo and nitrite readings:)

[Jennie]

some concerns that maybe you added too much for bio load to handle.

[Skip]

How often and how much water would you recommend to change over the next few days when there acclimatizing to there new home.

everyday.. 50% esp, if you dont' know ammonia levels.. PS.. make sure you use PRIME.. do remove chlorine and chloromines.. from water

[SGmenace]

I'll get on the ammo and nitrite readings asap! This evening after I grab the test kits. I was planning on doing 50% water changes every other day. I'm gonna condition and let the water sit for 48 hours before I put it in with the fish. As for the bio load concern would adding more filtration help? I have a few filters on existing established community tanks I could swap over.

[Skip]

just think of your fish water as a toilet.. :p

do you think they would be happier if you waited to clean the water, everyday.. or every OTHER DAY...

just saying..

bioload is the WASTE they produce vs the bacteria that break it down..

just be warned.. you need to listen to me.. but you need to listen to the others.. NO SHORT CUTS! .. trust me. it will cut down on problems with water.. or keep you from losing fish..:antlers:

[SGmenace]

Haha I like the analogy, makes alot of sense. I have no intention of not listening to you and everyone else on this fourm, Im here looking for advice. If i wasenr going to listen what would be the point of asking. I'll deffinatly get on the 50% changes every day. As for bio load, they haven't been eating so I'm assuming they haven't been pooping very much?

[Skip]

Haha I like the analogy, makes alot of sense. I have no intention of not listening to you and everyone else on this fourm, Im here looking for advice. If i wasenr going to listen what would be the point of asking. I'll deffinatly get on the 50% changes every day. As for bio load, they haven't been eating so I'm assuming they haven't been pooping very much?

i used to be a Science teacher.. :D i used LOTS of Analogy's.. LOL..

hey go the thread i started.. "HI MY NAME IS SKIP..".. it kind of tells a little about what i did right AND wrong.. and steps i did to fix... it can be just a little insight to what can happen..

[aalbina]

I'll deffinatly get on the 50% changes every day.

Something to watch out for is the difference in parameters of the water in the tank vs the water you're putting in the tank during water changes. Often water has to "gas out" over time and this will affect your pH. Take a glass of tap water and test the pH. Let it sit on the counter overnight, or 12 hours, and test in the morning, if the pH hasn't changed, test it again 24 hours. Quite often the pH will be different. Most folks here don't like a change of more than .2 (so from 7.2 to 7.0) - if your change is greater than .2 - you will need to age your water for sure (aeration often speeds up the precipitation process). Especially when changing 50% of the water. if your mixing a pH of 8.0 from the unaged tap to water in the tank at a pH of 7.2 - that's going to cause you problems. The fish need a stable pH (their body chemistry actually changes to adapt to different pH conditions - bouncing pH reeks havoc with their system).


As for bio load, they haven't been eating so I'm assuming they haven't been pooping very much?

Actually ammonia comes off their gills as part of their natural osmotic processes - so they don't have to produce waste to produce ammonia. Discus are especially sensitive to ammonia and nitrite levels. If the bio load on your tank has been increased by 5 discus - there may be much higher ammonia and much higher nitrite until the nitrifying bacteria can multiply. We're talking about biological filtration here not mechanical filtration. This can take 4 to 6 weeks depending on your pH.

BTW my new discus didn't eat for a while. They can go quite a while without food - it just makes us feel better when they eat! Hope that helps.

Adam

[Skip]

BTW my new discus didn't eat for a while. They can go quite a while without food - it just makes us feel better when they eat! Hope that helps.

Adam

so TRUE!! :elvis:

[Discus master]

i used to be a Science teacher.. :D i used LOTS of Analogy's.. LOL..

hey go the thread i started.. "HI MY NAME IS SKIP..".. it kind of tells a little about what i did right AND wrong.. and steps i did to fix... it can be just a little insight to what can happen..

Dude no way Science is the SH** I love it way better than History blah blah blah!! I am a huge techi, I love electrnics Ohms Law hmm fun and I am was an IT major I got a BSin IT I love all things techi Astronomy and everything scince I really got into the whole water chemistry and the bacteria that break down the nitrogen waste and the other bacteria that break down the amonia and with a PH of under 7.0 its amonium realitively harmell in comparison I just loved getting into I forget all the technical names like the nitrobacter or whatever but you get the idea I really got into the whole fauna of the whole thing its pretty cool

[Skip]

yes sir!!

it was kind of easy to leave teaching for civil engineering.. well.. sort of.. being back in college @38 and being an RA in the DORMS was the SH*T!!! :D

[Discus master]

yes sir!!

it was kind of easy to leave teaching for civil engineering.. well.. sort of.. being back in college @38 and being an RA in the DORMS was the SH*T!!! :D

Nice I like that really nice, WoW now I want to go back to grad school for sure, hmm my wife and kids may have a problem with that though:D

[aalbina]

Ph - 6.5
Nitrate - 0
Phosphate - 0.25
KH - 1 degree
temp - 84


Just noticed your pH of 6.5 and your KH (carbonate hardness or alkalinity) - couple of things: A low pH like that which is fine for discus, BTW, will inhibit the growth of the good bacteria that handles ammonia. It will grow - but not very well and not very fast. Fortunately, a low pH like that will also render ammonia less toxic to fish (chemically it makes it more difficult for them to take up).

Your KH value is also low which means there's not a good chemical buffer to keep the pH from changing pretty dramatically. So no water changes means changing chemical composition of the water - if the pH tended toward more basic 6.6, 7.0, 7.3 - then not only would the fluctuation be bad for the fish but the built up ammonia that was previously non-toxic at a pH of 6.5 could become toxic over night if the pH went basic by .2 or .4.

If your pH was 7.0 or higher out of the tap - unaged and you put that into a pH of 6.5 with ammonia in the water - bang - you could have a toxic ammonia problem and the potential pH shock in short order.

Not trying to scare you - just trying to help.

Adam

[Skip]

Nice I like that really nice, WoW now I want to go back to grad school for sure, hmm my wife and kids may have a problem with that though:D


i just used teacher retirement for my education.. it was pretty easy to get up and leave.. i am not married and i have no kids..................

.........

........

.......

that know of.. :computer2: :D

let me tell.. the coed's shorts are a LOT LESS then they were when i was in college in the 90's!! WHOOOOHHHH RAAAH!!!

ps.. what was the ORGINAL TOPIC again! ; )

[SGmenace]

let me refresh your memory on the original topic haha

I picked up the nitrite and ammo test kits today and did a full test of the water

Ammonia - 0
nitrite - 0
nitrate - 0
phosphate - less the 0.25
PH - 6.8
KH - 1 degree

So Im assuming my KH is WAY low how would I go about raising this? I know about adding baking soda but wont this raise my Ph too high? I am injecting C02 if this changes anything.

The discus are acting the same still. Hiding, some pecking, dark colors. I tried feeding again today with bloodworms. I even used a syringe and "poofed" some near there mouth. Still no takers. I have no idea where to go from here? help?

Thanks!

[Skip]

the general idea from what get around here, is not to mess with chemicals.. just do WC's.. give them clean water.. and NOT try to artificially change water parameters... i don't speak KH.. so someone else will answer that.. sorry... : ))

[SGmenace]

Im just so nervous about a PH crash with a KH that low especially since I am injecting C02.

[aalbina]

Im just so nervous about a PH crash with a KH that low especially since I am injecting C02.

C02 injecting will cause the pH to drop but will not affect the KH at all (C02 is a weak acid). If you turn it off at night, it will fluctuate back up. I agree with Skip - don't mess with water parameters if you can help it. As long as the pH is stable - you should be fine. Water changes are a good way to avoid pH bouncing. The nitrifying process produces hydrogen ions and if no water changes are done - that will acidify the water. I wouldn't be that worried about a pH crash at this point as long as your keeping up with the water changes.

You're out of my league a bit here - you might want to take this problem to the Disease and Sickness forum. You will find a lot of folks there who know more about planted tanks, C02 and pH fluctuation than I do. When you start injecting C02 - you are already changing water parameters a bit, so your already into it. I actually took all the gravel and all the plants out of my new discus tank to minimize variables. I had kept African cichlids and community fish for over 20 years - but discus are a whole new ball game.

Fill out the questionnaire on the disease and sickness forum and you'll get some help before it's too late. If the pH is bouncing at night - the fish may be getting weaker and will be more susceptible to parasites and disease. If you're injecting C02 - that's not really a beginner set up :)

[SGmenace]

So today I fed some blood worms and I caught the most aggressive fish munch on a few! The others still float in the same spot of the the tank most of the day not eating and getting pecked on by the most aggressive fish. Hopefully this is a good sign :)

[Discus master]

i just used teacher retirement for my education.. it was pretty easy to get up and leave.. i am not married and i have no kids..................

.........

........

.......

that know of.. :computer2: :D

let me tell.. the coed's shorts are a LOT LESS then they were when i was in college in the 90's!! WHOOOOHHHH RAAAH!!!

ps.. what was the ORGINAL TOPIC again! ; )

Yeah I hear you!;)