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largewilliam
11-03-2010, 04:22 PM
Hi, I have question I need help with. I have a 180 with a clay based layer on the bottom about 1" thick and a layer of coarse pea gravel on the top about 2"
thick. I do have some live plants that are doing well and I am ordering more, 48 pieces. I do have Co2. My problem is cleaning the gravel with a python. I am sucking up the clay base when I clean. Should I take ot the pea gravel and layer with sand. Do i need the clay layer to grow plants? The tank needs to be decorated so my wife is happy. No bare bottom tanks in my house.
Any suggestions would help in my dilema. Thanks

Harriett
11-03-2010, 05:38 PM
Hi, I have question I need help with. I have a 180 with a clay based layer on the bottom about 1" thick and a layer of coarse pea gravel on the top about 2"
thick. I do have some live plants that are doing well and I am ordering more, 48 pieces. I do have Co2. My problem is cleaning the gravel with a python. I am sucking up the clay base when I clean. Should I take ot the pea gravel and layer with sand. Do i need the clay layer to grow plants? The tank needs to be decorated so my wife is happy. No bare bottom tanks in my house.
Any suggestions would help in my dilema. Thanks

William,
In THEORY, a layered substrate works but one of 2 things happens, inevitably:

1. You carefully don't clean all the way through the substrate in an attempt to not mix the two and disturb your 'look' or
2. You vigorously vacuum the substrate straight through to the bottom, attempting to get all the ditrius and debris out and mix the 2 substrates and then feel frustrated.

I can tell you this, I also used exactly these 2 products in tandem in a planted tank about 10 years ago--I had them completely mixed in a matter of a month or two.

Other comments I would like to extend to you:

3" thick substrate in total is deep and you would have to be impeccable in your maintenance to have a prayer of keeping the tank bacterial load from the substrate under wraps--it would eventually build up, esp if you are using pea gravel.

Gravel just allows too much space between particles, crap will find its way down there and the bacterial load will be a problem. the deeper the bed, the faster the problem will arise, IMO.

Plants do like the clay base but it is pretty dark in color and eventually also sort of turns to mush...

I would offer this, from my own experience: I pulled a 3" layer of said pea gravel and clay out of my tank, did a total breakdown and cleaning, and rescaped the tank with pool [silica] sand in a bed from 1-3" in depth. The plants root in it much more easily and prolifically, the crap stays mostly on the surface and can be easily vacuumed away. It is also an inert substrate, as are the 2 products you are talking about, so if this is to be a fully planted tank you will likely need both column and pellet type ferts, depending on the plants you choose to use.

Vacuuming pool sand is SO easy--the particles are heavy and do not easily suck up and away in your python if you watch what you are doing.
The sand is very clean and IME required very little initial cleaning--I dumped it all in to the tank and skipped the bucket in the bath tub ordeal, filled the tank and stirred vigorously, let the filters run for an hour or so [with clean prefilters on], vacuumed all the particulates then laying on the sand, and changed the water. It cleared in a couple hours--I began planting and the fish were in the tank that night.

The only caveat I want to extend is that with pool sand [and all other substrates, I think], you must also regularly vacuum to the full depth and move the sand around, or you will end up with pockets of anaerobic bacteria and that eventually will bite your fish in the butt.

I do one 75-80% water change weekly on my planted tank, vacuum thoroughly around the plants and sort of gently shake the crap from plant bases with the python--it's the best substrate I have ever used, or plan to, at this point!

Best regards,
Harriett

discuspaul
11-03-2010, 06:57 PM
Harriett,
A great post on using pool filter sand !
Have been using it myself for some time, and pretty much know how to deal with it in a planted tank, but this is the first time I have seen it written out for others to follow.

largewilliam
11-03-2010, 08:56 PM
Harriet, Thank you so so much. This is what Simply is all about. Helping each other when we need help. Will my fish be alright if I take all that bacteria out. I have help coming this Saturday. I'll save most of the water and then clean out the clay & gravel rinse it all out and place a 1 to 3 inch layer of pool sand and then put the water back in. I use outside filters and won't rinse those out. This should keep the tank cycled. Is this the right way to do this. I have 15 juvies 3 - 4 1/2".

discuspaul
11-03-2010, 09:09 PM
William,
Hope this will help you doing this major overhaul of your tank.
Use a large bucket or styrofoam cooler - whatever - add water from your existing tank - place your heater in it, along with your already seeded HOB filters, and net & put your fish in it. (Cover it).
With the heater & filters running, your fish should be fine for the couple of hours you need to revamp your tank with the new pool sand & fresh conditioned water of the correct temp. Do your plantings, whatever, switch over your heater & filters, then add your fish, and you're good to go.

largewilliam
11-03-2010, 09:32 PM
Paul, Thanks, How thick should I make the base? Thicker in the back tapering to the front? I thought I would use maybe 80% of the original water then wait 2 days & go back to 50% changes 2-3 times a week.

largewilliam
11-03-2010, 10:34 PM
Are we talking pool filter sand or will "play" sand work? I live by the beach here in Florida, lets see a bucket a day and in a week or so I should have it! Only kidding. Does the sand change the pH?