prime vs storage barrels

[twocat]

I have been using storage barrels for years to age my water. I have recently started using Prime and it works great.

Before I give my barrels away I want to ask is there really a need to age water in barrels?

[dean9922]

I used to use prime all the time and have just recently switched to Safe powder that I got from David Rose (Igo Pro) on SD, much more economical.....however I have 2- 55 gallon barrels that I have not had time to set them up just for the simple fact that I will hook the 2 barrels up to a pump and return water back to my tanks ensuring the proper temp every time and reduce the need for any chemicals.

[RudeDogg1]

the trouble with decorinators like prime ect they dont get rid of the nasties they just bind them so they are still in the water personal id stick to aging. Mine goes through a HMA into a 220L waterbutt in the basement with a powerhead and heater and then gets pumped upto the tank.

[PAR23]

I have been using storage barrels for years to age my water. I have recently started using Prime and it works great.

Before I give my barrels away I want to ask is there really a need to age water in barrels?

I think the answer to your question depends on your source water parameters. I have to age my water as my pH increases from 7.5 (source water)to 8.0 after 24 hrs.

[Discusgeo2]

I use prime powder but I add it to my storage tote because I want my water warmed up before doing a water change. Because all my tanks are in my garage I need warm water and a small water heater is not going to work for me.

[Keith Perkins]

IMO it sort of depends on what you're doing with discus. If your only keeping adults and or juvies I can see not using an aging barrel. On the other hand if your breeding and raising fry I'd saying aging barrels are nearly essential. Temperature and Ph swings that adults and juvies don't appreciate will just plain kill fry.

[Jhhnn]

I use prime, then heat, aerate and age the water. I think it's the safest and best way to go.

Those of us who live in colder areas need to be concerned about dissolved gasses in tap water. This time of year, providers are processing near freezing water, and solubility of gasses in water is much higher at colder temps. When the water is heated and depressurized, the gas escapes in the form of microbubbles, which can form on the wrong side of fish membranes, particularly gills. It can damage or kill fish. This thread from Feb 2010 gets into it at some depth, with pics-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?77419-My-water-may-be-forcing-me-out-of-the-hobby!&highlight=bubbles

Other hobbyists' water contains a lot of dissolved CO2. Quite why, I don't know, but the PH of their tap water rises considerably when aged. They need to age their water to get PH stability and predictability in the makeup water.

I've developed a system where I can drain and then fill several tanks simultaneously with aged water. I couldn't do that without aging the water and heating it, and even with a 50gal water heater i'd have to wait between tanks to get a consistent temp with makeup water. As it is, I change 150 gals of water in ~20 minutes, and don't even have to pay attention most of the time. It then takes ~45 minutes to fill the barrels, but that's done automatically once I start the fill process. Adding more tanks takes more barrels and pumps, but not more time for water changing, just more time to fill the barrels, which really doesn't matter...

[wendy9722]

I use prime, then heat, aerate and age the water. I think it's the safest and best way to go.

Those of us who live in colder areas need to be concerned about dissolved gasses in tap water. This time of year, providers are processing near freezing water, and solubility of gasses in water is much higher at colder temps. When the water is heated and depressurized, the gas escapes in the form of microbubbles, which can form on the wrong side of fish membranes, particularly gills. It can damage or kill fish. This thread from Feb 2010 gets into it at some depth, with pics-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?77419-My-water-may-be-forcing-me-out-of-the-hobby!&highlight=bubbles

Other hobbyists' water contains a lot of dissolved CO2. Quite why, I don't know, but the PH of their tap water rises considerably when aged. They need to age their water to get PH stability and predictability in the makeup water.

I've developed a system where I can drain and then fill several tanks simultaneously with aged water. I couldn't do that without aging the water and heating it, and even with a 50gal water heater i'd have to wait between tanks to get a consistent temp with makeup water. As it is, I change 150 gals of water in ~20 minutes, and don't even have to pay attention most of the time. It then takes ~45 minutes to fill the barrels, but that's done automatically once I start the fill process. Adding more tanks takes more barrels and pumps, but not more time for water changing, just more time to fill the barrels, which really doesn't matter...

+1 very well said. I do basicly the same thing. Just not as efficiant as what you said.
....Wendy

[rosyrobyn]

When you use Prime do you dose enough Prime to treat the full aging barrel or just the amount of fresh water added to the aging barrel?

[Jhhnn]

When you use Prime do you dose enough Prime to treat the full aging barrel or just the amount of fresh water added to the aging barrel?

Just the amount prescribed for the amount of water. Because you're aging the water, there's plenty of time for the chemistry to work, and no fish in the barrel to react poorly to sanitizing chemicals during chemistry transition.

Denver Water has a really good website, which I've explored to my advantage. Your provider may have the same. Armed with the information they provide, I've been able to reduce prime consumption. Per Seachem's instructions, 5ml of prime will neutralize 3ppm of chloramines in 50gals of water. Per the Denver water site, the concentration of chloramines in what they provide hasn't exceeded 2.1ppm over the several years of data they publish, so I've reduced the amount of prime used by 1/3, with great results. I figure there's no reason to waste the stuff or to use any more than really needed.

[jimg]

I use prime, then heat, aerate and age the water. I think it's the safest and best way to go.

Those of us who live in colder areas need to be concerned about dissolved gasses in tap water. This time of year, providers are processing near freezing water, and solubility of gasses in water is much higher at colder temps. When the water is heated and depressurized, the gas escapes in the form of microbubbles, which can form on the wrong side of fish membranes, particularly gills. It can damage or kill fish. This thread from Feb 2010 gets into it at some depth, with pics-

http://forum.simplydiscus.com/showthread.php?77419-My-water-may-be-forcing-me-out-of-the-hobby!&highlight=bubbles

Other hobbyists' water contains a lot of dissolved CO2. Quite why, I don't know, but the PH of their tap water rises considerably when aged. They need to age their water to get PH stability and predictability in the makeup water.

I've developed a system where I can drain and then fill several tanks simultaneously with aged water. I couldn't do that without aging the water and heating it, and even with a 50gal water heater i'd have to wait between tanks to get a consistent temp with makeup water. As it is, I change 150 gals of water in ~20 minutes, and don't even have to pay attention most of the time. It then takes ~45 minutes to fill the barrels, but that's done automatically once I start the fill process. Adding more tanks takes more barrels and pumps, but not more time for water changing, just more time to fill the barrels, which really doesn't matter...

How do you heat the water in the barrels to keep temp up while new water is coming in?

[Keith Perkins]

How do you heat the water in the barrels to keep temp up while new water is coming in?

You don't, when you're adding new water to the aging barrels the temp drops. The key is to have the new water as close as you can to your tank temps when you want to use it. The fact that the water temp in the aging barrel fluctuates/drops when it's being refilled is of no consequence.

[jimg]

Ok
mine fills from ro waste and takes most of the day to heat up to tank temp. I though you may of had a way to heat the water in the 45 mins. it takes yours to fill.

[Discusgeo2]

I have a 1000 watt heater that heats mine up. I have it hook to a timer and comes on around 10:00 PM and by the morning it is warm enough to do all my water changes

[Jhhnn]

How do you heat the water in the barrels to keep temp up while new water is coming in?

It's like Cozy Keith offers. I fill the barrels with warm water. My gas water heater doesn't keep up in the winter because of the low temp of water coming into the house, but I have 24hrs for the aquarium heaters suspended in the tanks to catch up. It really takes a lot less time than that. I figure it's cheaper to heat the water with gas than with electricity, then basically hold the temp in insulated barrels with electricity. With my system, the heaters are off when I'm filling either the tanks or barrels, coming on when the barrel fill cycle is completed.

In the summer, when the cold water is warmer, a temperature mixing valve gets the fill water for the barrels just right, so it's basically ready to go once the barrels fill and the water is aerated for an hour or so. The mixing valve doesn't keep the temp up, but rather keeps it from being too hot.

If I had drilled tanks and more money, the whole thing could be made completely automatic, but it'd be very expensive to create the kind of safeties and redundancies for me to be comfortable with it all... My current methods aren't cheap, but I think they're worth the investment.

[wendy9722]

I have a heater and a bubble strip in the holding barrel (trash can) to keep in motion. I add the prime into the barrel after I'm done refilling it. By the morn its up to normal temp and I can do wc's with out the changes in the water temp if I use my faucet. My hot water heater cant keep up with the amount of water I use so I have to use the barrel. I have a 100, 3-20gal ,29 ,30, 46, 55 to do= 320gallons + 5gal hospital tank if needed. I have to alternate days to keep up. Most days I will do a 90% wc in all tanks. Smaller tanks I will do 100%.

Wendy