Bio media

[abmcdonald]

I have a new 210 that I will be setting up as a NPT with 8 to 12 discus to be added in after I am sure the tank is settled in and when the juvies I am growing out are ready. I will be running a sump on the tank with filter socks for the mechanical filtration but can't decide on what bio media. Adding a tray for wet/dry with bio balls would be a little extra work but I have plenty of bio balls just sitting around. On the otherhand I ran across "bio bullets" while on the jehmco site. Has anyone used them or have any other suggestions (ceramic rings, etc.)? Personally I would rather use a submerged material instead of the bio balls as a wet/dry in order to increase the volume of water in the sump and thus increase the volume of the system. Also, the sump is set up to overflow to a floor drain as I am contemplating setting it up as a continous wc system but have not decided that yet either.

below is the advertising for the "bio bullets" made by HiQ:

NEW - Bio-Bullets:
Tank Clear pellets are a proprietary sintered glass biological media. Cylindrical bullet shaped pellets are 11/16” dia x ~ 7/8” long. This special media provides exceptional biological nitrification cycle activity in a concentrated footprint without the problems of clogging, sliming and by-pass of ceramic media. Negative buoyancy makes this excellent for use in air driven box filters or any HOB or canister filter.

Never needs replacing
Effective in Aquarium, Filter, Sump or Refugium
Clears cloudy water caused by impurities
Reduces and stabilizes nitrate

[CajunAg]

I'm using SeaChem Matrix (http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Matrix.html) in my sump. It's recommended to use 1L per 100gal, and for my 65 gal tank w/ 20gal sump I have 2L, also with a filter sock. Pretty easy to find at any LFS too. I'm sure the sintered glass "bullets" would work tho. Be wary of any media that claims to "reduce nitrate" (even Matrix states this), the best way is still water changes.

[acroken]

May want to look at using kaldnes media. It is a moving bed media which self cleans and positive buoyant. Not a wet dry media. I am using it now and very happy. I am not at a computer but just google it. Aquatic eco systems has it. Great stuff.
Kenny

[roundfishross]

May want to look at using kaldnes media. It is a moving bed media which self cleans and positive buoyant. Not a wet dry media. I am using it now and very happy. I am not at a computer but just google it. Aquatic eco systems has it. Great stuff.
Kenny

plus 1.... but I did find an off brand cheaper on ebay

[acroken]

plus 1.... but I did find an off brand cheaper on ebay
If you could send a link. I searched for it on eBay with no luck. I am in need of more.
Thanks Kenny

[roundfishross]

kenny it's been about a year , so I will have to look and see if I can still find it

[roundfishross]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BIO-MEDIA-MOVING-BED-MEDIA-KOI-POND-FILTER-1-cu-ft-/250637955888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5b2fb330

[acroken]

http://cgi.ebay.com/BIO-MEDIA-MOVING-BED-MEDIA-KOI-POND-FILTER-1-cu-ft-/250637955888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a5b2fb330

Nice, seems to be the same media for $10 + cheaper. That is a win win. Thanks

[roundfishross]

yup this is what I have been using for a year. I may have bought two cuft, I dont remember. it will be a ton of those little suckers. I have never personally seen actual kaldness but these things are about the size of a small acorn. when I bought them I thought they would be larger for some reason. they do work great!!!

[acroken]

I am buying 2 today. They will be right next to the name brand kaldnes so we will see. I will let you know in a week. They take some time to flow when new. Good link. Thanks

[abmcdonald]

Thanks guys for all the quick responses. I will be looking into the kaldnes as well as the knock off. acroken, if you have time please post back any initial comparison thoughts you have between the name brand and the knock off when it arrives.

[seanyuki]

Just sharing......moving bed filter using Kaldnes Media filter

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zxpBOGXkGls&feature=related

[Inland Empire Discus]

I also agree that the Kaldnes media is the best. Here are some prices that I can sell it for if anyone is interested.
Kaldnes K1 Bulk box 25 litres $45
Kaldnes K1 50 litres 1.8 cubic feet $88
Kaldnes K3 50 litres 1.8 cubic feet $85
Kaldnes Bio Chip Media 25 litres $120

Bill

[nc0gnet0]

Interesting seeing this stuff filter in to the home aquarium medium, I first read about it on Koi forums. So what's next, anyone care to build the first in house Bakki shower?

;)

Rick

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Interesting seeing this stuff filter in to the home aquarium medium, I first read about it on Koi forums. So what's next, anyone care to build the first in house Bakki shower?

;)

Rick

I have a few different designs floating around for a home aquarium MBBR. Im surprised no one has commercially made them yet....

-Ryan

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Nice, seems to be the same media for $10 + cheaper. That is a win win. Thanks

While this may look very similar to the Kaldness K1 media, it may not have the same surface area as Kaldness. Less surface area per cubic foot = a larger volume of media required to perform the same function. Granted small systems that people have here, it wouldnt make a difference. But if someone was designing a larger system, that little bit of difference would matter.

-Ryan

[Vee]

Can you just throw this into a cannister?

[acroken]

Can you just throw this into a cannister?

this media is designed to be more free flowing and kinda churn/tumble as the water flows through it. A canister would limit the media's area too much.I do not run 100% of my return water through this media only approx 30% set up on a bye pass. This allows me to push the water through it without washing it totally clean which would seem to happen if too much flow was used. The media is a moving bed media,i set mine up to feed from the bottom so there is 100% contact to the media. This is how i use it, not saying it is text book correct.

Kenny

[abmcdonald]

This allows me to push the water through it without washing it totally clean which would seem to happen if too much flow was used.

After a fair amount of research, the "wash" off is a main conern, that and how to keep the media "flowing" around the sump area without getting pinned to the outflow portion of the sump. The only room I have for the filtration is in the factory cabinet underneath the 210 tank. So about the bigest my sump can be is the size of a 40 gallon long. I keep bouncing back and forth from trickle filter to a diy/modified kaldnes filter to a "fully" submerged sump with sintered glass or ceramic rings.

I'm getting lost in all the options. It is seeming more and more likely I will end up with a traditional trickle style wet/dry as that is certainly tried and true, as well as readily available. I do really like the idea of using filter socks and have only seen one comercial style sump with that set up and of course it was by far the most expensive (must be why I want it).

Any thoughts about using the highly boyant bioballs in a sort of reverse "kaldnes" set up. Let the balls float around a sump area with water flowing into the chamber at the top corner at a downward angle and have the water leave the chamber from the bottom at the opposite side. Inflowing water would constantly push the bioballs around the chamber and push them down, but hopefully the balls would float enough not to get traped on the sponge at the outflow baffle.

[Rex82]

I also agree that the Kaldnes media is the best. Here are some prices that I can sell it for if anyone is interested.
Kaldnes K1 Bulk box 25 litres $45
Kaldnes K1 50 litres 1.8 cubic feet $88
Kaldnes K3 50 litres 1.8 cubic feet $85
Kaldnes Bio Chip Media 25 litres $120

Bill

Can you ship to Australia Bill?

[Inland Empire Discus]

Can you ship to Australia Bill?

No reason that I can not ship these to Australia. The best way is probably via the Postal service in a flat rate box or something of the nature. PM oR EMAIL me with your address and I can get you a shipping quote.

Bill
inlandempirediscus@att.net

[abmcdonald]

Bill,

Any tips, tricks or suggestions as to how use the Kaldnes in a typical sump situation? Do you have any systems up and running with the Kaldnes that you happen to have pictures of? I'm planning to have approximately 1,000 - 1,100 gallons of water flow through the sump each hour and am worried that much flow would just pin the filter media to the outlet side of the sump and prevent any of the "moving bed"

[Inland Empire Discus]

Let me see what I can do. I have not uploaded video to this site before but I can for sure take some pics of my sump with the media in it. Will try and up load them later this evening or tomorrow. My sump flows about 3,000 per hour through and all seems to work fine. Will post dimensions when I post the pics.

Bill

[Darrell Ward]

The kaldness is a great bio media. Moving media works much more efficiently than a static media like matrix, or bio balls because the media is in constant motion, making it self cleaning. To make my filter, I wedged a 4" thick piece of Poret foam across a section of the sump, with another piece across the top for the pre filter. No need for filter socks here. Super easy. The media is fluidized by air stones on the bottom, held in place by sand filled pieces of 1/2" pvc zip tied to the airlines. It runs at approximately 1600 gph on a 240 gal. tank, with a 55 gal. sump. One note, 1 cubic ft. of the Kaldness media is a LOT of this media. You probably won't need no where near that amount. I didn't.

[mios]

I have a habit wherever i found the words "filter" or "filtration" to find how can be usefull in my filters
So one day i opened the capsule of my coffe machine and that what i found seems similar to "Bio Chip Media" . You can even open small holes with a dremel-type drill .After bleach them for a day i'llput them with my other Kaldnes-type media in the sump.
You have to drink more coffes :coffee:

[mios]

and a close-up

[abmcdonald]

To make my filter, I wedged a 4" thick piece of Poret foam across a section of the sump, with another piece across the top for the pre filter.

So your drain pipe just dumps on top of the horizontial foam at the top, drops into the kaldnes, then flows out through the foam on the side to the pump to be returned to the tank?

[Inland Empire Discus]

Here are the pictures of my sump with kaldness media. Water is dumped onto the filter material on the top then goes into the kaldness chamber and flows out the bottom through a sponge. The sump is is 36 x 24 x 16 and the pump will flow 3600 per hour at a 10 ft. head. I also have 11 airstones in the bio chamber to keep it moving.

Bill

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Bill,

Any tips, tricks or suggestions as to how use the Kaldnes in a typical sump situation? Do you have any systems up and running with the Kaldnes that you happen to have pictures of? I'm planning to have approximately 1,000 - 1,100 gallons of water flow through the sump each hour and am worried that much flow would just pin the filter media to the outlet side of the sump and prevent any of the "moving bed"

A few helpful tips for any looking to build their own MBBR style filter:

Aim for 0.15CFM of air flow per cubic foot of media. You could go higher, but anything extreme (0.75CFM/cu ft ++) would be working against you by sheering off the bacteria from the media at a faster than normal rate.

To achieve ideal mixing rates of the media within the chamber (via aeration), fill the reactor chamber no greater than 50%. Yes, I have done higher (60-70%), but certain conditions must exist, and is generally not necessary to go over a 50% fill rate in small systems like ours.

As for pinning the media to the outlet of the chamber, that all boils down the good system design. Lots of different ways to do it. Some more effective than others. Just depends on your system demands.

Also, how much media you require is directly dependent upon the operating conditions (and requirements) of the system. How much food is fed per day, the protein content, temperature, salinity, tolerable TAN levels, etc, etc, etc.

-Ryan

[Darrell Ward]

So your drain pipe just dumps on top of the horizontial foam at the top, drops into the kaldnes, then flows out through the foam on the side to the pump to be returned to the tank?

Yep. Two 1 1/2" drains actually.

[Darrell Ward]

Hey Bill, just curious about what you are running in the media reactor sitting in floor beside the sump in the pictures?

[Inland Empire Discus]

Hey Bill, just curious about what you are running in the media reactor sitting in floor beside the sump in the pictures?

It is a DIY ozone reactor. I run about 360 mg/hr of ozone through it and back into the return side of the sump so it goes straight from the reactor to the tanks. No Carbon just straight in.

Bill

[TURQ64]

This all seems like pretty good stuff; perhaps it's time to move on from my wet/dry's.....Gary

[abmcdonald]

O.k. I was almost completely convinced until I was thinking through things a little the middle of last night as I was unable to sleep and a new question arose. How is the moving media any better than the traditional trickle style wet/dry filter in terms of sluffing off old bacteria? In the trickle filter the water flows over the media and I would think brushes off the old bio build up. With Kaldnes the media moves instead of the water. I would think the flow past the Kaldnes would actually be slower/less able to knock of old/bad bacteria as the media simply flows with the water. Maybe the slower flow past the media is the good thing about Kaldnes as that allows longer contact time. Any thoughts?

[dbfzurowski]

Well, I've had my sump for about 2 months and I noticed most of the beneficial bacteria is in high flow areas such as tubes/pipes to and from the sump. Today I pulled out some of the bio balls and there is nothing on them. My used to be clear tube from pump to tank is brown inside. I'm sure the next sump is going to be with the moving bio.

[roundfishross]

the motion of the moving media brushing against itself along with the water flow help to knock off all the older bactieria which is a good thing because then the newer younger hungrier bactieria thrive. the media will never look extremely coated just slightly discolored this is why it is more efficient. its practiclly self cleaning!

[Darrell Ward]

The Kaldness media was developed for the waste water treatment industry in Europe, so it's not just another aquarium related "sales gimmick", like so many products on the market these days. Another point is, that since you are highly aerating the media to fluidize it, your dissolved oxygen rate goes way up, and drives off C02. Personally, I don't think I'll ever go back to trickle, and static sump filters again, having discovered how efficient this stuff is at converting ammonia.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

O.k. I was almost completely convinced until I was thinking through things a little the middle of last night as I was unable to sleep and a new question arose. How is the moving media any better than the traditional trickle style wet/dry filter in terms of sluffing off old bacteria? In the trickle filter the water flows over the media and I would think brushes off the old bio build up. With Kaldnes the media moves instead of the water. I would think the flow past the Kaldnes would actually be slower/less able to knock of old/bad bacteria as the media simply flows with the water. Maybe the slower flow past the media is the good thing about Kaldnes as that allows longer contact time. Any thoughts?

Several points to consider:

1. Kaldness is designed to be a constantly moving media, using aeration. This constant motion/aeration is more than enough to knock off the excess biofilm to keep it "thin".

2. Kaldness is designed to be fully submerged, utilizing the full surface area available of the media. Bioballs only use a fraction of their available surface area due to channeling effects. This channeling effect reduces the overall effective surface area of the bioballs.

3. Using bioballs in their originally designed method, the channeling effect can create a relatively slow velocity over the media, allowing the dead biofilm to build up. Kaldness media, when use as intended, has no channeling issues if the chamber is designed properly.

4. Moving Bed Bio Reactors have been used for years in the commercial aquaculture industry. It is a proven design, and it is all we use when designing/sizing systems:
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/2652/Clearwater-Low-Space-Bioreactor/lsb12/0

-Ryan

[Vee]

Can you use Kaldness media in a Phosban reactor or just a sump?

[Darrell Ward]

I suppose you could on a smaller tank, where you didn't need a large amount of bio media, like a 55 gal. If you put an air stone in the reactor to add oxygen, it should work fine. In fact, round media vessels are much easier to fluidize, because they are no corners that can trap the Kaldness media.

[roundfishross]

I saw a youtube vid where an asian company is manufacturing a filter for koi pond that is basically a pool sand filter packed with kaldness. this thing actually is not fluidized untill you back flush it for cleaning

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

I saw a youtube vid where an asian company is manufacturing a filter for koi pond that is basically a pool sand filter packed with kaldness. this thing actually is not fluidized untill you back flush it for cleaning

There are a few small companies out there doing the same thing. It works ok....The void spaces within the Kaldness (or similar media) is too great to allow for any great degree of fine solids removal. Kaldness is designed as a biomedia, not a combo mechanical/bio media. If you want to use a sand filter body, but not the actual sand, stick with a bead filter (allows for a low head pump). Just my 2 cents.

-Ryan

[Darrell Ward]

I agree, and a bead filter is very effective. I have a small version of one, an Ocean Clear 354, on a 150 gal. domestic discus tank as a stand alone filter. It's hooked to a 1250 gph external pump. The body of this filter is clear, so you can see what's going on inside. 7 lbs. of plastic beads are in the filter, when water is pumped in, the beads rise to the top, with the water being forced thru the beads, and out the top of the filter. The beads act as mechanical, and biological filtration. Cleaning is done by back washing the filter, but on this smaller filter, I have found it much more effective to simply unscrew the lid, stir the media, and drain the resulting dirty water out the drain valve on the filter into a garden hose run out the door.

[roundfishross]

Darrell, how effective is it at pulling out fine particulates? do you have to follow with foam?

[Darrell Ward]

It's pretty effective. The beads rise to the top kinda like a "mat" that the water has to travel through. The particles get trapped under the bead "mat". If you cloud the water for some reason, the water will clear up in a couple or so hours. Water turnover times seem to have an effect on this as well. The faster you turn over the tank, the better it seems to work. I actually had this same filter and pump on a 75 gal. for about 5 years before I put it on the 150 gal., and it worked well enough that I didn't change anything except for longer hoses for the 30" deep tank. It's been on the 150 for about a year and a half. I don't use any foam with it.

[Dkarc@Aol.com]

Darrell, how effective is it at pulling out fine particulates? do you have to follow with foam?

Once a bacterial film develops on the beads themselves, they can pull down to 40-60 microns very easily. Since the beads are physically larger than grains of sand (larger void space between), you can use a low head pump to push through it. I use bead filters and bioreactors on a lot of setups I do.

-Ryan