Worm Wars

[Second Hand Pat]

Some of the recent threads talking about red wigglers has me wanting to start a culture. Just for fun I went down to the lake and grubbed about and found about six fairly small earthworms. The soil I was digging through appears perfect for culture material but definitely will be buying a starter culture. 15 minutes for six worms is not very productive.

I bought the worms back to the house and gave them a good rinse in RO water and put them into the Tefe's tank. OMG, those fish had a blast. Stealing the worms from each other. Two fish each with an end of the same worm having a tug of war. One fish losing the end and another grabbing the end and pulling it totally away from the other fish. I left and came back, no worms and the fish were hunting the bottom for more.

[atitagain]

I have a local bait store right by the house that has them in stock. Other than cost is there any concerns using them to feed the fish?

[mmorris]

I have a local bait store right by the house that has them in stock. Other than cost is there any concerns using them to feed the fish?
It's wise to raise them yourself and then you will know the worms haven't been exposed to pesticides.

[Disgirl]

Some of the recent threads talking about red wigglers has me wanting to start a culture. Just for fun I went down to the lake and grubbed about and found about six fairly small earthworms. The soil I was digging through appears perfect for culture material but definitely will be buying a starter culture. 15 minutes for six worms is not very productive.

I bought the worms back to the house and gave them a good rinse in RO water and put them into the Tefe's tank. OMG, those fish had a blast. Stealing the worms from each other. Two fish each with an end of the same worm having a tug of war. One fish losing the end and another grabbing the end and pulling it totally away from the other fish. I left and came back, no worms and the fish were hunting the bottom for more.

Pat, I almost feel sorry for the poor worm, the way you described it! When I feed live earthworms to the big Koi in my pond, they are gone in one split second gulp, so fast I imagine the worm still alive in the fish gut for a bit. Let us know how your worm farming goes.
Barb

[Darrell Ward]

I tried to raise worms once with a "starter group" of 1000 I ordered online. The problem was, the fish ate all of them before they reproduced enough to support the colony. It's amazing how fast they will disappear. I suggest either getting several thousand to start with, or not feeding the worms to the fish at all until you have several thousand. Also, a tip I learned was to feed them your coffee grounds if you drink coffee. It is less messy than other types of waste to feed them, and does not attract flying insects as much.

[LizStreithorst]

It's wise to raise them yourself and then you will know the worms haven't been exposed to pesticides.

I disagree. The bait shops buy from the worm farms. The worm farms would be STUPID to allow their stock to be exposed to pesticides. Their worms would die! IMO, it's safe but by far the more expensive way to go.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have a local bait store right by the house that has them in stock. Other than cost is there any concerns using them to feed the fish?


It's wise to raise them yourself and then you will know the worms haven't been exposed to pesticides.

Yes, I could see pesticides being a concern. Thanks mmorris for pointing that out. I do know the worms I digging from my yard have no be exposed to anything. I do not even use fertilizer.


Pat, I almost feel sorry for the poor worm, the way you described it! When I feed live earthworms to the big Koi in my pond, they are gone in one split second gulp, so fast I imagine the worm still alive in the fish gut for a bit. Let us know how your worm farming goes.
Barb

Sorry Barb, was a bit graphic. If I post a video on it I will rate it as mature.

So this morning I checked out one of the older horse poop pile and found one worm, again a small one. So will definitely will be getting a starter culture. On the flip side the older horse poop piles should provide excellent growing medium for the worms.

Liz, if you see this would you agree?

[Second Hand Pat]

I disagree. The bait shops buy from the worm farms. The worm farms would be STUPID to allow their stock to be exposed to pesticides. Their worms would die! IMO, it's safe but by far the more expensive way to go.

Thanks Liz for the clarification.

[LizStreithorst]

I tried to raise worms once with a "starter group" of 1000 I ordered online. The problem was, the fish ate all of them before they reproduced enough to support the colony. It's amazing how fast they will disappear. I suggest either getting several thousand to start with, or not feeding the worms to the fish at all until you have several thousand.

I've started working on an article on how to raise sustainable cultures. It will be a while before its finished and posted.

1000 worms is more than enough to start with. It's WAY WAY more than I started with. You must have been doing something wrong (no offence). When I collect worms I only collect the ones suitable to the size of the fish that I am feeding. Breeder worms go into another culture and given time to reproduce. The little ones are moved into the same culture to grow. I decimated the first batch I had shipped in because it didn't occur to me that they had to me managed. I fed every worm I saw and in no time I had no worms left.

[Darrell Ward]

Yep, I fed them all!

[Second Hand Pat]

Worm farming here I come, ordered my culture tonight of 1300 to 1900 worms.

[Darrell Ward]

Good luck! I think Liz gave good advice about splitting them up. I found out the hard way it's very easy to accidentally feed too many from the culture, and end up with nothing but dirt!

[vera]

Pat the farmer !YAHOOO lol
i've been looking in to starting my culture of earth worms too , let me know how it goes :)

[LizStreithorst]

So this morning I checked out one of the older horse poop pile and found one worm, again a small one. So will definitely will be getting a starter culture. On the flip side the older horse poop piles should provide excellent growing medium for the worms.

Liz, if you see this would you agree?

Horse poo is my worms main diet. I expected to find them under old piles of poo,but I rarely do. I find pleanty when I pull aside the mulch in my gardens. If you have a leaf pile, look for them on the bottom of the pile where they are in contact with the soil an the decaying leaves.

[Harriett]

Where did you order your worms from, Pat? I am thinking to buy a big batch to add to my vegetable garden.
H

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Harriet, Liz recommended the worm man. I ordered the 2 lb red wigglers.

http://www.wormman.com/cat_redworms.cfm

[Second Hand Pat]

I got the worm bins from home depot last night, big and no too deep and plenty of surface area. Need air holes in the bottom (or maybe side ) and in the top and fill with a variety of worm medium and should be good to go when the worms come.

[LizStreithorst]

I got the worm bins from home depot last night, big and no too deep and plenty of surface area. Need air holes in the bottom (or maybe side ) and in the top and fill with a variety of worm medium and should be good to go when the worms come.

I have bins that I've drilled holes in (if you drill the holes on the bottom some worms will escape, but you can alway collect them after you empty and move the container. I no longer drill holes. The worms do need air but none of my lids make the container air tight. They just keep the rain out.

I took pics yesterday of my set up, but my computer that has the photo editing software just went off to my computer fixit buddy and won't be back until Friday. I'm generally pretty busy on Fridays so who knows when I'll be able to post them.

[Second Hand Pat]

Liz, these are plastic bins and I was considering keep them inside. Summer time in Florida is pretty hot. Do I need holes in the bottom if the lid is not air tight. I can post pictures of the bins and you can comment?

[LizStreithorst]

You don't need holes anywhere if the lid is not airtight.

Post away. The worms are very tollerent of different conditions. When I lived on the gulf coast for 4 years I kept mine outside. One of them I kept in the pump house for the winter. My outside ones were in part sun and part shade, but they were somewhat deep. The worms could get away from the heat by going deeper. I was in zone 9. In central Florida, I'd imagine that you'd be in zone 9 as well. Now that I'm in zone 8 I bring some of them in for the winter and put them in a closet. They seem to go semi dormant when the weather gets cold.

[Second Hand Pat]

I filled one of the bins tonight. Laid a thin layer of leaves on the bottom, dirt/horse poop mix, dirt leave mix and topped with more leaves. All about 6 inch deep.I have another three inches of depth for adding and burying compose. I pulled back one corner to show the leaves on the bottom but hard to tell.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/IMAG0063.jpg

[ericatdallas]

Sorry Barb, was a bit graphic. If I post a video on it I will rate it as mature.


I wanna see a video :)

Actually, I'm curious if your domestics are as ferocious... I imagine the Tefes spent a fair amount of their time competing for anything that moved growing up.

[Second Hand Pat]

Filming and support crew.

Khayel, best bud and poop supply manager.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/IMAG0062.jpg

Bell, freebie catcher and general entertainment.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/IMAG0065.jpg

Blaze, water change helper. Too good to help with poop collection.
http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/IMAG0066-1.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

I wanna see a video :)

Actually, I'm curious if your domestics are as ferocious... I imagine the Tefes spent a fair amount of their time competing for anything that moved growing up.

Eric, I only have wilds. I will need some worms to do a video and I will do one. I will need to either wait for the ordered worms to come or spend a half hour collecting some wild ones. Yes, the Tefes are very competitive with any food. Very outgoing fish.

[Keith Perkins]

Gee Pat, when you said you were posting pictures of the support crew I was expecting a picture of the coffee pot too...the worm food provider.

[Second Hand Pat]

Gee Pat, when you said you were posting pictures of the support crew I was expecting a picture of the coffee pot too...the worm food provider.

Liz mentioned that she uses horse poop as her main worm food. So I had to give credit to at least on of the horses. The coffee pot will have it's day.

[Keith Perkins]

Grandpa used cow manure and coffee, had an old wringer washer hidden in some Christmas tress growing behind the house. We did a lot of fishing, so he was doing something right. :)

[Northstr31]

I just started a worm culture 2 weeks ago with 1000 worms. I set it up with top soil then later found out its better to use Coir. Its an organic compound you can buy at hydroponic supply stores. Its alot less messy.
Anthony

[Second Hand Pat]

Grandpa used cow manure and coffee, had an old wringer washer hidden in some Christmas tress growing behind the house. We did a lot of fishing, so he was doing something right. :)

Keith, sure sounds like he did. I love to fish. As a kid my dad would take the family out to the hunt camp. There were some mining pits full of water and water was crystal clear. These pits were full of bream. I would hop in a blow up raft with a cane pole, some worms and go find where the breeding beds were. These were the days.


I just started a worm culture 2 weeks ago with 1000 worms. I set it up with top soil then later found out its better to use Coir. Its an organic compound you can buy at hydroponic supply stores. Its alot less messy.
Anthony

Thanks Anthony, might check that out.

[ShinShin]

I would be careful with feeding worms bought from "bait" dealers. Some do add pesticides to the substrate to prevent a mite infestation.

Mat

[LizStreithorst]

I would be careful with feeding worms bought from "bait" dealers. Some do add pesticides to the substrate to prevent a mite infestation.

Mat

Well, well, well, I had never thought of that.

[roundfishross]

didnt check the pricing on the other link, but I have purchased from arbico and they are top notch folks, and guaranteed no pesticides!
http://www.arbico-organics.com/category/s?keyword=red+worms

[cyril]

I have found that my worms love to eat banana peel and oat meal

[Second Hand Pat]

I would be careful with feeding worms bought from "bait" dealers. Some do add pesticides to the substrate to prevent a mite infestation.

Mat

Thanks and good to know Mat, I ordered my worms from worm man like Liz recommended so no worries.


didnt check the pricing on the other link, but I have purchased from arbico and they are top notch folks, and guaranteed no pesticides!
http://www.arbico-organics.com/category/s?keyword=red+worms

Thanks Leo, maybe next time. I have an order coming. Fairly comparable price wise.


I have found that my worms love to eat banana peel and oat meal

Thanks, something else to add to the mix.

I went down to the lake and found a bunch of worms. I saved the larger ones and placed them into one of the worm bins. Both worm bins are setup and ready to go. Took a few of the smaller ones and placed them in the Nhumanda reds tank and they went wild. I thought these guys were shy. Not really.

[April]

Best book for raising worms is called worms eat my garbage. Red wigglers are the proper ones.
Best to start with peat or coconut disks or blocks, shredded newspaper and a handful od sand. They need the sand to digest. Add eggshells for calcium or you can get a ph crash same as a fish tank then your worms begin to die off. Your meant to put vegetable scraps in a different corner of the box each time so they rotate through the box. Bury the vegetables to avoid fruit flies.
They can eat a pound of vegetable scraps a week. Keep them room temperature. Unhappy worms start to move out and crawl away if too wet, too hot etc.
Recycle or composting centers in different cities have programs and some supply the worm box and worms.

[Second Hand Pat]

Thanks April, that's great info. I did not know about the rotation in different corners of the box. I have some sand in the boxes now but what is "od sand"?

[April]

"Of sand" my iPad plays word games.

[Second Hand Pat]

I have the new HYC Evo phone and it allows you to speak words to compose a message or mail. It is not worth anything except a good laugh on some of its translations.

[LizStreithorst]

Best book for raising worms is called worms eat my garbage. Red wigglers are the proper ones.
Best to start with peat or coconut disks or blocks, shredded newspaper and a handful od sand. They need the sand to digest. Add eggshells for calcium or you can get a ph crash same as a fish tank then your worms begin to die off. Your meant to put vegetable scraps in a different corner of the box each time so they rotate through the box. Bury the vegetables to avoid fruit flies.
They can eat a pound of vegetable scraps a week. Keep them room temperature. Unhappy worms start to move out and crawl away if too wet, too hot etc.
Recycle or composting centers in different cities have programs and some supply the worm box and worms.

I have that book. I'd forgotten. Coire (shreaded conunut hulls) would be less messy, but I use plain old dirt. It's free. Besides it's where they live in nature so I know it has what they need. I don't mind getting my finger nails dirty. I don't bother to vary where I put the food. I cover the top of the culture with it and cover it with the worms and copmpost from the culture I'm feeding from. When I systematicly go through the cultures to gather worms, their all throughout it from one end to the other. I'll have to dig that book up and find out what else I'm doing wrong. Obviously there is more than one way to raise a worm.

[Second Hand Pat]

Worm order came today from the wormman (thanks Liz). Two lb bag and the worms were quite lively. I divided the worms between the bins. Now to feed them and leave them alone.

http://i925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/WormBin.jpg

[Second Hand Pat]

Here's a short video of the guys in the QT literally having a tug of worm. The fish get very animated and pushy with the worms. Now these worms are the wild ones I have collected and are a bit big for easy eating.


http://s925.photobucket.com/albums/ad95/Second_Hand_Pat/Worm%20Bins/?action=view&current=VIDEO0014.mp4

[ericatdallas]

They kind of looked like they got frustratd with it and left it alone. Did they eventually eat them?

[Second Hand Pat]

Eric, they pick for a while, leave it then go pick at it again. They do seem to pick the worms into pieces and eat them. I do siphon out any leftovers. These worms seem a bit big and will be harvesting smaller ones once the bins are producing.

[Second Hand Pat]

Hey Liz, if you see this what is the right sized eating worm for discus?

[Second Hand Pat]

Feed the worm tonight and the bins are starting to produce baby worms. Found a couple 1/2 inch worms. Perfect I would think for discus fine dining.

[Jennie]

cant wait to see how this goes!

[Second Hand Pat]

cant wait to see how this goes!

Me too ;)

[calihawker]

Raising pigeons, raising quail and now I'm gonna ask my wife if I can raise worms. She's gonna kill me. LOL!

Great thread and info!

Steve

[Second Hand Pat]

Raising pigeons, raising quail and now I'm gonna ask my wife if I can raise worms. She's gonna kill me. LOL!

Great thread and info!

Steve

Not if she is into recycling or gardening.

[seanyuki]

Hi April......is this the book you're talking about?......do you have an author for the book?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Worms-Eat-My-Garbage-NEW-Mary-Appelhof-/150531168213?pt=US_Nonfiction_Book&hash=item230c5b57d5


Best book for raising worms is called worms eat my garbage. Red wigglers are the proper ones.
Best to start with peat or coconut disks or blocks, shredded newspaper and a handful od sand. They need the sand to digest. Add eggshells for calcium or you can get a ph crash same as a fish tank then your worms begin to die off. Your meant to put vegetable scraps in a different corner of the box each time so they rotate through the box. Bury the vegetables to avoid fruit flies.
They can eat a pound of vegetable scraps a week. Keep them room temperature. Unhappy worms start to move out and crawl away if too wet, too hot etc.
Recycle or composting centers in different cities have programs and some supply the worm box and worms.

[calihawker]

Not if she is into recycling or gardening.

That would be no and no and no it didn't go over too well. :)

Steve

[Second Hand Pat]

Dang Steve, is she green minded at all thinking of the composing part.

[LizStreithorst]

Hey Liz, if you see this what is the right sized eating worm for discus?

It depends on the size of the Discus. I know from experience what to feed. I never feed a breeder worm. Mess with them for a while and you'll figure it out.

[Second Hand Pat]

It depends on the size of the Discus. I know from experience what to feed. I never feed a breeder worm. Mess with them for a while and you'll figure it out.

I have been and tend to feed thin, couple of inch ones to the adults. I am starting to have babies now so will try them with the sub-adults. Thanks.

[Second Hand Pat]

My worm bins are produced baby worms so my worm bins are confirmed. :) Babies are fairly fat and about 3/4 of an inch long. I will post pics of them tomorrow. :)

[ericatdallas]

My worm bins are produced baby worms so my worm bins are confirmed. :) Babies are fairly fat and about 3/4 of an inch long. I will post pics of them tomorrow. :)
'
Liar... ;)

Are they taking the baby worms any better?

[Second Hand Pat]

'
Liar... ;)

Are they taking the baby worms any better?

Oh man Eric, you should see all the babies and all different sizes. I have found that the smaller worms are better in that the larger, or perhaps longer worms seem to cause a bit of upset and a discus will do a slight headstand for a little while every now and again.

[ajvdiscus]

ok people i knwo this thread is a little old.............. but i have to ask from what i read i could feed my discus the worms that we use for fishing ? and from my back yard ? any earthworm will do ?
no need for the blackworms only..

[gaboon]

Add slice of bread for worm food and u might to try to a a band of crisco around the top. Also a laundry sink from hd or lowes works great no bending over

[smelly]

along with the worms... what else do you feed them.. so as to have a varied diet.I thing the woems is a super idea ... lots of nourishment .... protien..

[Second Hand Pat]

along with the worms... what else do you feed them.. so as to have a varied diet.I thing the woems is a super idea ... lots of nourishment .... protien..

Are you feeding discus or worms lol.

I feed my worms coffee grind mixed with horse manure. You can also feed wet newspaper, card board etc. Note that I have red wigglers which can live in shallow bins. I feed my wilds the smaller red wigglers and leave the larger ones for maintaining the colony.

[smelly]

lol , thanks Pat
I meant the fish, what do ya feed along with the worms?

[Second Hand Pat]

Smelly, what's your name. I can't call someone smelly lol.

Ok so frozen blackworms. freezed dried blackworms, Kens premium flake (3 in 1 flake), Dale Jordan's seafood mix, spirulina flake, adult brine shrimp and mysis shrimp and of course red wigglers. :)

[Cosgrovb]

Pat - how is your colony one year later? Still feeding them to your wilds?

[Second Hand Pat]

Pat - how is your colony one year later? Still feeding them to your wilds?

Oh yes Cosgrovb, every other day about half the tanks gets a worm feeding. The colonies are self maintaining with a coffee grind/horse manure mix to feed the worms.