150 cardinals is equivalent to how many adult discus

[AngryBird]

I have a stocking question. I am planning to add 150 adult cardinal tetras to my tank (225 gallon) which already has 5 adult discus and 6 small BN pleco. My question is simple. I just wanted to know how many adult discus would equal 150 cardinal tetras? Not in terms of money but with respect to fishes that can thrive in this size tank. I am looking forward to add few more adult discus in future but would like to figure out the number first. :confused:

I change 20% water every other day and if time permits, I change 10% every day. Not this this would make a big difference but just in case if someone might ask:o.

[DiscusLoverJeff]

I once saw an artical that said 5 to 7 tetras equal 1 adult discus. I hope this helps?

Where are you able to purchase that many tetras? I was looking for about 25 jumbo neons.

[AngryBird]

OMG. If thats the case, I am screwed. I just placed the order for 150 tetras. I guess I may have to sell some if your math is right.

LFS, but I am getting a good deal as I am buying in bulk.


I once saw an artical that said 5 to 7 tetras equal 1 adult discus. I hope this helps?


Where are you able to purchase that many tetras? I was looking for about 25 jumbo neons.

[discuspaul]

150 cardinals is a lot of tetras, even for a 225 gal tank, if you already have 5 adult discus and are planning to add more! (along with the 6 plecos). Reduce the tetra number to at least half that amount, and then you could think about adding a few more discus.

[Discus-Hans]

150 cardinals is a lot of tetras, even for a 225 gal tank, if you already have 5 adult discus and are planning to add more! (along with the 6 plecos). Reduce the tetra number to at least half that amount, and then you could think about adding a few more discus.

Okay now I probably get my a$$ kicked but we put 400 Jumbo's in a 65 gallon.

The group I had in my 200 gallon was about 200 with the Discus.

Now what size do you get your Cardinals, most of the time when you buy 150 in a few days/week, you've about a 40~50 left lol lol (or NOT lol)

Hans

[YSS]

Okay now I probably get my a$$ kicked but we put 400 Jumbo's in a 65 gallon.

The group I had in my 200 gallon was about 200 with the Discus.

Now what size do you get your Cardinals, most of the time when you buy 150 in a few days/week, you've about a 40~50 left lol lol (or NOT lol)

Hans

Yup. I have at one point around 120 cardinals and 30 rummies along with many other fish in my 265. 150 cardinals in 225 would be fine.

[discuspaul]

Okay now I probably get my a$$ kicked but we put 400 Jumbo's in a 65 gallon.

The group I had in my 200 gallon was about 200 with the Discus.

Now what size do you get your Cardinals, most of the time when you buy 150 in a few days/week, you've about a 40~50 left lol lol (or NOT lol)

Hans

I like your last paragraph, Hans, that's quite true, and that's exactly what I mean by the need to reduce the number.
As for putting 400 Jumbos in a 65 gallon, I suspect that was a BB tank, and you were selling them off quickly. Same for the 200 fish in a 200 gallon with discus. You do have a fish sales outlet, don't you, Hans ? LOL
If we're talking about hobby fish-keeping on a full time, long term basis, let's compare apples to apples, ok? LOL

[discuspaul]

Yup. I have at one point around 120 cardinals and 30 rummies along with many other fish in my 265. 150 cardinals in 225 would be fine.

Yeah, granted, 150 cardinals in a 225 is fine - agree - but perhaps not along with 6-12 discus, a bunch of plecos, and who knows what else ? I for one sure as h... wouldn't do it.

[Northwoods Discus]

If they are already on the way and you can not reduce the number why don't you put them in and just monitor your parameters to get an idea if the fish load is too much. If so increase water change amounts to fit. Then when the number adjusts down as Hans noted to the strong ones you will have just enough. Then we can see with actual data if it is too much fish load.

[AngryBird]

I really hope I dont lose a lot of fishes like Hans mentioned :). In the past I have had good success with Cardinals until few wild discus attacked a bunch small cardinals. Will watch out on the parameters and make necessary water change. I have 5 Wild discus now and I hope to add another 5 in another 6 months.


If they are already on the way and you can not reduce the number why don't you put them in and just monitor your parameters to get an idea if the fish load is too much. If so increase water change amounts to fit. Then when the number adjusts down as Hans noted to the strong ones you will have just enough. Then we can see with actual data if it is too much fish load.

[Northwoods Discus]

I had pretty good luck with cardinals. I just lost my last one of a group of 20 that I bought together 2 years ago. There are no bodies, they just disappeared, Hmmmm.

[Discus-Hans]

There are no bodies, they just disappeared, Hmmmm.

Hmmmmmm now why do I have to think about ex-wives when I read this........... lol

Understand me well, I've a good relation with my ex wife.

But it was the first thing that popped up in my mind when I saw this lol lol

Do I need help????? lol lol lol


Hans

[Northwoods Discus]

Hans I think I will let this one go.

[AngryBird]

BTW, size of the cardinal is 1+ inch


Okay now I probably get my a$$ kicked but we put 400 Jumbo's in a 65 gallon.

The group I had in my 200 gallon was about 200 with the Discus.

Now what size do you get your Cardinals, most of the time when you buy 150 in a few days/week, you've about a 40~50 left lol lol (or NOT lol)

Hans

[2wheelsx2]

I think you have to look at biomass and what is reasonable. A full grown discus is what, a pound? 7 cardinals is nowhere near a pound.

[mteel7237]

Hello Hans, are you planning on stocking more cardinals soon?

[angelfishusa]

I once saw an artical that said 5 to 7 tetras equal 1 adult discus. I hope this helps?

Where are you able to purchase that many tetras? I was looking for about 25 jumbo neons.
Just check out my website as I usually have some nice farm and tank raised neon tetra's. I've got about 200 left right now. I fatten them up for a month before I start shipping so they've been eating lots and lots of baby brine! I usually get 1000 at a time, and if I lose 10 that's a lot. these are over 3cm right now...

[Melissa]

I think you have to look at biomass and what is reasonable. A full grown discus is what, a pound? 7 cardinals is nowhere near a pound.

I don't think it's to do with the fishes 'mass'.... More like the bio-load of the fish- how much waste it produces... I'd say 6-7 cardinal tetras may produce as much waste as an adult discus in one day.... More or less.

Regardless.... 150 cardinals is going to look niiiiiiiiice!!! Lol I want pictures when they come in! If you keep up on WC's I think you'll be fine! Lol

[2wheelsx2]

I don't think it's to do with the fishes 'mass'.... More like the bio-load of the fish- how much waste it produces... I'd say 6-7 cardinal tetras may produce as much waste as an adult discus in one day.... More or less.


Simple experiment would prove this to be erroneous. Put 7 cardinals in a 10 gallon. Do the same with a full grown discus. Feed 3 times in one day and then measure the nitrates in the tank. In your scenario, the nitrates would be higher in the cardinal tank....somehow, I can't see this happening. If this were true, everyone on Simply is wasting all their water doing all those water changes. :D

[Melissa]

That would be an interesting experiment indeed. I think we are both speculating the outcome of such an experiment before its actually done. A lot of variables go into a discussion like this and I think one big issue is how much you feed.... In such an experiment I would predict the nitrate levels would be about the same.
Take a gold fish for example though.... Aren't they known for producing more waste and being dirty fish even though they're small? I think we are both guessing here and nobody can know for sure unless we perform that experiment you we're referring to.


It also wouldn't make sense that the results of that experiment would be wildly different either... Just sayin.
I still think 6-7 cardinals would produce the same amount or around the same amount of waste one adult discus can in one day....

I think what you were originally talking about- the bio-mass thing.... Is relevant as far as establishing a base line energy requirement to simply sustain the fish, but then you have to account for the fishes activity level.

[2wheelsx2]

Take a gold fish for example though.... Aren't they known for producing more waste and being dirty fish even though they're small? I think we are both guessing here and nobody can know for sure unless we perform that experiment you we're referring to.
Um... No. Googling will show you 3 lb goldfish.

And I'm talking basic conservation of energy. I cannot imagine 7 cardinals eating as much as a discus. I have both. If you have both, you would see what I mean. I have 60 tetras in my cube and 6 discus and I can tell you the tetras don't even eat half of what my discus eat.

[Melissa]

Um... No. Googling will show you 3 lb goldfish.

And I'm talking basic conservation of energy. I cannot imagine 7 cardinals eating as much as a discus. I have both. If you have both, you would see what I mean. I have 60 tetras in my cube and 6 discus and I can tell you the tetras don't even eat half of what my discus eat.

Googling will show me 3lb Goldfish.....what? It seems like an incomplete sentence.... I'm aware goldfish get big. But the smaller ones are dirty little things too! Lol

Sorry to disagree. I do have a large group of cardinals as well as discus and I can tell ya they eat quite a bit :) but that could be because Chad Hughes beef heart mix is just at damn good LOL!
It comes down to energy consumption, calories in, calories out. Tetras are fast and very active, discus- not so much.


I still think 6-7 cardinals would produce the same amount or around the same amount of waste one adult discus can in one day....

I think what you were originally talking about- the bio-mass thing.... Is relevant as far as establishing a base line energy requirement to simply sustain the fish, but then you have to account for the fishes activity level.

[Discus-Hans]

Hello Hans, are you planning on stocking more cardinals soon?

Working on it, where I used to get good quality Cardinals they also have Discus now from a ......... questionable source (let's call it that) because Cardinals are probably packed on the same tables as those Discus........ no thank you!!! I learned my lesson. So working on a new source.


Just check out my website as I usually have some nice farm and tank raised neon tetra's. I've got about 200 left right now. I fatten them up for a month before I start shipping so they've been eating lots and lots of baby brine! I usually get 1000 at a time, and if I lose 10 that's a lot. these are over 3cm right now...

David, Neons are not Cardinals, Cardinals do better on a higher temp. and are MUCH colorful.




I still think 6-7 cardinals would produce the same amount or around the same amount of waste one adult discus can in one day....


Disagree.

I use to have, in the year 0 BC (BC = Before Catastrophe) 400 Cardinals in a 65. If we did feed them 2 big chunks of my mix it didn't hit the bottom, like Phirana's. Now in the same tank say 40 x 3" Discus (is 10:1) I guarantee you there is a lot lesser waste in the Cardinal tank as the Discus tank.

Hans

[Melissa]

Thanks for the input Hansie. You're probably right. :) so am I understanding correctly you think maybe it's 10:1 then as far as waste production? 10 cardinals = 1 discus?
It would be a fun experiment when you think about it... I think I'm going to make it my daughters first science project for school when that comes up. Although... Shes three so that may be a while before we do it LOL

[Northwoods Discus]

The outcome of that experiment would really depend on the amount of food going into the tank. You are adding the nitrogen from the food to 10 gallons of water. It will convert to nitrates eventually even if there were NO fish in the tank. Activity, growth, loss of condition could all play a role. It would be no simple experiment. I still think if you check your parameters and adjust your water changes you will be OK. If you can't keep the nitrogen waste products under control with proper filtration and WCs than you have too many fish in the tank. It is like energy it cannot be created or destroyed only changed in form. The nitrogen (protein) we put in our tanks (food) can only be changed in form (fish mass, plant mass, bacteria mass, ammonia, nitrites, nitrates etc.) or removed by water changes.

[Darrell Ward]

I once had a school of 50 cardinals in a large planted tank with a dozen adult discus. The cardinals added very little bio load to the tank. When I removed the cards for another tank, it really had no impact at all to the water quality of the display. The waste of a whole school of them is nothing compared to a healthy pair of adult discus.

[Melissa]

Lol from the sound of things I was way off then. I guess I just got lucky and my cardinals are fat dirty little slobs! LOL!!!

[Willie]

I usually keep 5 - 6 adult discus in a barebottom 75 gal tank, with 2 double stacked set sponge filters. Two years ago, I added 125 cardinals to the tank, which also has a dozen Corydoras sterbai. Never saw any effect on water quality. The cardinals did wonderfully on the beefheart that the discus would chew and spit out. Not saying that they had no effect, but extra sponge filters are very forgiving.

The tank looked spectacular. The problem was that visitors would essentially ignore the discus and just talk about the cardinals.
Willie

[AngryBird]

My cardinals are arriving this Thursday. I have a 225 gallon tank and I will be doing additional WC and will closely monitor the parameters. Will keep everyone posted on the effects

[Melissa]

Oohh post some pictures!!!!! They're going to look awwweeeesssooooome! Lol :)