Am I ready for discus?

[oscarzx]

What's going guys, I've been in the aquarium hobby for about 4 months, I know I know I'm still new... but don't let the experience fool you. I do tons of research before doing anything to my aquarium.

I've been on these forums for about a month? I'm not sure lol.. reading stickies everyday, learning about medication/feedings/tanks/behavior/etc.

I do plan on picking up a few (4-6) discus in about 2 months from a breeder on these forums. I just wanted to check in and post some of my tanks specs and hopefully get some constructive criticism
Tank
90 gallon

Water Parameters.
Ammonia: 0
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 20
Ph: 6.8

Equipment.
Eheim 2217 (prefiltered)
150w Heater (upgrade maybe?] water stays at a steady 84.
Evolution 750GPH powerhead.
pressurized co2 (for plants obviously)

I go with a EI dosing method, doing 1 50% WC every week, seeing as how I'm getting some juvenile Discus I should probably increase the rate of WC's.. any idea on how many a week?

Also a 10g Quarantine tank.

Any tips or any concerns I should be worrying about? please feel free to guide me in the right direction.

http://i67.photobucket.com/albums/h297/oscarJDM/102_1704.jpg

[strawberryblonde]

Pretty tank! Oh sorry, you're a guy...hmmm.... handsome tank! LOL

The only thing I can see immediately is that you'll want to add a second heater to the tank. Probably don't need to replace the first one if it's operating and holding temps well. The second one is as backup in case the first fails in the middle of the night and to avoid the possibility of overheating should one of them go all ballistic on you.

Are you getting plenty of surface turbulence with the current setup? The high temps are gonna reduce the oxygen levels and growing discus need lots of O2. I thought mine was fine till the discus arrived, and then I chose to add another hydro sponge in a big hurry. =)

Water changes are gonna be the tough part with juvies. I'm a newbie too, and I really couldn't grasp just how polluted my tank would get when feeding beefheart and other frozen foods. Ugh! I have 4" discus and have to do at least 50% per day with a good swish of the plants and gravel daily. So, if you truly want to go with juvies, consider getting them at LEAST 3" and preferably a bit larger. You'll still be doing a lot of growing out with them, but you won't be nearly as frustrated as you'd be with the smaller guys.

So far it hasn't affected my plants in a big way, but my cabomba and vals had to come out. They were a constant tangled mess from all the swishing. My other tanks are now happily enjoying the nice new greenery. LOL

[Lenin]

I would loose the CO2 and add that the water changes should be every two-three days. And forget about dosing the plants, what substrate are you using.

[oscarzx]

There is no way I'm taking away my co2, or any of plants for that matter.. I started with a planted tank and I tend on keeping it that way. I know It's going to be more work but in the end I know It will be worth it.

[oscarzx]

Pretty tank! Oh sorry, you're a guy...hmmm.... handsome tank! LOL

The only thing I can see immediately is that you'll want to add a second heater to the tank. Probably don't need to replace the first one if it's operating and holding temps well. The second one is as backup in case the first fails in the middle of the night and to avoid the possibility of overheating should one of them go all ballistic on you.

Are you getting plenty of surface turbulence with the current setup? The high temps are gonna reduce the oxygen levels and growing discus need lots of O2. I thought mine was fine till the discus arrived, and then I chose to add another hydro sponge in a big hurry. =)

Water changes are gonna be the tough part with juvies. I'm a newbie too, and I really couldn't grasp just how polluted my tank would get when feeding beefheart and other frozen foods. Ugh! I have 4" discus and have to do at least 50% per day with a good swish of the plants and gravel daily. So, if you truly want to go with juvies, consider getting them at LEAST 3" and preferably a bit larger. You'll still be doing a lot of growing out with them, but you won't be nearly as frustrated as you'd be with the smaller guys.

So far it hasn't affected my plants in a big way, but my cabomba and vals had to come out. They were a constant tangled mess from all the swishing. My other tanks are now happily enjoying the nice new greenery. LOL

Thank you for the compliment, I do plan on adding a second filter to my tank pretty soon once I obtain some discus.. as for surface agitation yea, I pointed my power head towards the surface creating gentle ripples, that way my co2 last longer in my tank.

I'll see about getting larger discus, that would be a good idea just because of the idea of the tank becoming a messlol thanks!:)

[Lenin]

OK learn the hard way, discus and CO2 does not work.

[Melissa]

You had asked about how many water changes you should do a week in your first post.... With Juvies, I'd recommend 7 a week! LOL ;)

[oscarzx]

You had asked about how many water changes you should do a week in your first post.... With Juvies, I'd recommend 7 a week! LOL ;)

I might just have to buy some older ones from you then ^_^
If that's going to be the case, I might just grow them out in bare bottom 45gal...

[oscarzx]

OK learn the hard way, discus and CO2 does not work.

I'm sure that's not true.. I have a few people @ the planted tank forums who run co2 with discus.. I'll have to read more on that I guess.

[oscarzx]

The only problem I would see doing a BIG water change for my tank would be messing with my fertilizers for my plants... hmm..

Ok now let me ask this, would a 25% daily WC be enough in a 90 gallon for 4-6 discus?

[discuspaul]

You've done your research oscarzx, and I know you've read my 'Beginner's Guide' sticky, along with a lot of other info.
If you get, e.g., around 4" size discus, and follow a good tank cleaning routine along with strong filtration, there's no reason why you can't get by nicely with 2 or 3 wcs per week, say in the 50%- 60% range, and still maintain ongoing very satisfactory results with your ferts regime for your planted tank.
That's the wc routine I've been following in my 75 gal planted tank - have a look via the link below - the pics were taken about 3 months ago, when the discus were just around 3", and most are now close to 5". (I've sold a couple since then). I'm not yet using CO2, but I'm planning to do so shortly. Up to now, I've been using root tabs in the PFS substrate, along with regular dosing with liquid ferts - Flourish products & Excel. (Temp @ 84 F).
And BTW, get yourself a secong back-up heater as SB has suggested. (And if your interested, I may be able to give you a few tips on maintaining crystal clear water conditions as well.)
Link:
http://s1105.photobucket.com/albums/h357/discuspaul/FTS-Osaka260

[oscarzx]

Thanks Paul for the awesome info, I've been reading almost daily.. picking up new tips on discus keeping that's for sure..
Sometime next week I'm picking up another heater, wouldn't hurt and I would sleep good at night knowing I have a back up one.

As for the size, I'm not sure yet.. Discusmama is breeding a pair and hopefully soon we'll have some babies, I'll have to talk to her a bit more about sizes.

That is a beautiful tank, that tiger lily is growing out nice... Also could you tell me the name of that stem plant in the back right? :)

[discuspaul]

The red & tiger lilies have tripled in size since those pics were taken. The plant in the back right didn't do well in the temp I had at the time (87F), so I removed it. Can't for the life of me remember what the h..l it was - a Ludwigia variety, I believe.
I'm sure discusmama will have some nice young ones - but if you want to keep a nice planted tank, and will be doing less than large daily wcs, I'd suggest you not take them until they get to be around 3" or so - unless you're fully prepared to accept 'stunted' growth.

[oscarzx]

Yea I was thinking that, I would have to leave her some kind of deposit.. hopefully she would don't know yet, I'll be doing 30% WC daily.. vacuum the substrate also, my filtration is good...

Don't know Paul, you think a 30% daily would be enough to prevent "stunted" growth?

[oscarzx]

From what I've read 'stunted' growth is from poor water conditions right? 30% on a 90 gallon with good filtration sounds goood.. I'm prepared to work 24/7 on my tank.

[X_factor]

Is CO2 really needed for planted tanks? Is that why you're insistent in keeping the CO2? I'm just curious

I've been keeping my planted tank since October 2010. I have never put any CO2 in the tank. Only bi-weekly Seachem Flourish and last month put some DIY root tabs in the substrate. My plants grow pretty well without any CO2 and I do 15-20% water change twice a week. Right now I don't have any discus in the planted tank but I plan to put the discus in the planted tank in 3-4 months.

[strawberryblonde]

30% wc and larger juvies oughta do it just fine in a 90 gallon. Mine is a 54, so 50% is what works for me. I hope DiscusMama works out for you, cuz her fish are gorgeous and at 3-4" size you shouldn't have too much trouble with the planted tank.

There are days (ok, hours during some days) when I tell myself to just go BB all the way, but then I look at my tank with my living art doing ballet maneuvers through the plants and driftwood and it's all worth it. Oh and they're growing just fine in my little tank!

I don't use co2, but I know that it can be used without problems so long as there's sufficient oxygen production for the discus. Did I mention that you have a really pretty, er handsome tank?

[oscarzx]

Is CO2 really needed for planted tanks? Is that why you're insistent in keeping the CO2? I'm just curious

I've been keeping my planted tank since October 2010. I have never put any CO2 in the tank. Only bi-weekly Seachem Flourish and last month put some DIY root tabs in the substrate. My plants grow pretty well without any CO2 and I do 15-20% water change twice a week. Right now I don't have any discus in the planted tank but I plan to put the discus in the planted tank in 3-4 months.

For some tanks it's not needed as long as your providing enough nutrients for your plants, that would be considered a low tech tank and of course with low lighting.

Now I'm running high light, run fertilizers & root tabs, running a cylinder of co2 is a must.. If not my tank would be covered in Algae of all different kinds.

[oscarzx]

30% wc and larger juvies oughta do it just fine in a 90 gallon. Mine is a 54, so 50% is what works for me. I hope DiscusMama works out for you, cuz her fish are gorgeous and at 3-4" size you shouldn't have too much trouble with the planted tank.

There are days (ok, hours during some days) when I tell myself to just go BB all the way, but then I look at my tank with my living art doing ballet maneuvers through the plants and driftwood and it's all worth it. Oh and they're growing just fine in my little tank!

I don't use co2, but I know that it can be used without problems so long as there's sufficient oxygen production for the discus. Did I mention that you have a really pretty, er handsome tank?

Thanks strawberryblonde for the great info, I'm going to give it a shot in my 90 gallon.. I should have no problem keeping it maintained for the juvs. I'm a very quick learning.. and I can feel this is going to be a good learning experience XD

And thanks!
It's HANDSOME! NOT PRETTY ;)

[discuspaul]

oscar, if you're prepared to do daily wcs, even @ 30%, you should be ok - but it might be a little detrimental to your fertilizing efforts - but it's worth a try, to see how it sorts out - worth experimenting with.

[russren]

I have a 90, with two 2215s, 300 watt heater, diy co2, 260 watt compact fluor. iron in the substrate. The tank has been going about 8 yrs with discus just added about 4 months ago. I change about 1/3 of the water a week and use liquid ferts. I am sure more water changes would be better, but thats all I can squeeze in. Started with 3 - 3.5" discus. All are growing great.

So far so good for me. Add another heater. How much light are you using? You will have an algae battle until those plants get big enough to outcompete the algae. Get over the algae hump then go for it.

Jeff

[oscarzx]

I have a 90, with two 2215s, 300 watt heater, diy co2, 260 watt compact fluor. iron in the substrate. The tank has been going about 8 yrs with discus just added about 4 months ago. I change about 1/3 of the water a week and use liquid ferts. I am sure more water changes would be better, but thats all I can squeeze in. Started with 3 - 3.5" discus. All are growing great.

So far so good for me. Add another heater. How much light are you using? You will have an algae battle until those plants get big enough to outcompete the algae. Get over the algae hump then go for it.

Jeff

Thanks for the info. umm I have a 48" T5HO 54w x2, It puts me in high light, I'm running pressurized co2 tho.. I balanced it out without having any big algae issues.

[ericatdallas]

I don't see any problems with your tank. Even the heater is fine since you live in California, so most of the time the temperature won't get too low. I would still recommend a second 150W heater as already mentioned though.

Also, go with larger Discus. I bought juvies for my planted tank and that was a disaster.

A lot of people say it's okay to use BH right before a WC on a tank with substrate. I would highly recommend against it at all. I would vacuum the bottom once or twice a week and find parts I'm certainly were from my mix. If you have a UGJ or RFUG then you might be a little better off.

Each tank is different, but if I were betting money, I would say 6 -ADULT- Discus in a 90G heavily planted tank with a slightly more aggressive WC schedule than you were planning would probably work. Just monitor your water parameters. If you do end up with buying juveniles though, buy more than 6. I would also bet not all of them will make it.

[oscarzx]

I don't see any problems with your tank. Even the heater is fine since you live in California, so most of the time the temperature won't get too low. I would still recommend a second 150W heater as already mentioned though.

Also, go with larger Discus. I bought juvies for my planted tank and that was a disaster.

A lot of people say it's okay to use BH right before a WC on a tank with substrate. I would highly recommend against it at all. I would vacuum the bottom once or twice a week and find parts I'm certainly were from my mix. If you have a UGJ or RFUG then you might be a little better off.

Each tank is different, but if I were betting money, I would say 6 -ADULT- Discus in a 90G heavily planted tank with a slightly more aggressive WC schedule than you were planning would probably work. Just monitor your water parameters. If you do end up with buying juveniles though, buy more than 6. I would also bet not all of them will make it.

I'll take that into consideration, now let me ask you this.. even with all of the hard work done to your 90 gallon filled with juvs, how did that end up working out for you? did they grow out? die?

[ericatdallas]

I'll take that into consideration, now let me ask you this.. even with all of the hard work done to your 90 gallon filled with juvs, how did that end up working out for you? did they grow out? die?

I lost all of my original 6 in the planted tank (juvies). They succumbed one-by-one. It was clear they were stunting and had varying rates of growth. One was so weak, while I cleaning the tank and draining, it got sucked up in the vacuum... bear in mind, this was a very weak gravity siphon. In fact, I've since upgraded my siphons because the flow was way too low on that one it took a while to do WC. I did have two that survived, but they died later after I took them out and put them in a BB. It was pretty much a disaster and one that was predicted by pretty much everyone on this board.

I then went out and purchased 15 additional juvies. I lost one after two weeks but I told my wife I knew that one was going to die and I started to worry about the others. Then I lost another one to swim bladder issues shortly after. The other 13 are thriving. They are pretty much the same in size but I do have two runts.

I guess that's why I should clarify the "buy more than 6". It's possible all of them will make it, but if you want them to look the same/similar, then that probably won't happen because there will always be runts. Runts are expected when growing out juvies (that small... the bigger you buy them, the better chance you will have). People cull all the time when growing out. I actually expected more runts than I got but it helped that the breeder I bought it from let me handpick all the discus.

I started growing them out from about 1-1.25". When my juvies reached about 3.5+, it was clear who was and was not going to grow well.

When buying juvies, I (now) calculate a 25% "loss" rate when debating whether to buy small (1") or larger. That means, if I want 6 juvies, I calculate the cost and time raise 8 juvies and compare that to buying them outright at larger sizes. Obviously, whne I was buying the previous ones, I was expecting closer to a 50% loss based on my first experience :)

[oscarzx]

Thanks Eric, I really appreciate the tips... coming from an experienced planted tank member, that means a lot. I'll have to give it a try, I've read tons of information on all kinds of stuff regarding discus.. I can only learn more by feet wet so to speak. I'll definitely keep that in mind about getting more than just 6 discus...

I'm prepared for the challenge!!!!!

[Melissa]

If you end up requiring larger than 2" juvies, at the moment there is a small group of my fry, all around the 2 1/2" mark at San Diego Discus in the care of Chad Hughes. When they get big enough to sell they go to Chad :) if you are really interested in getting some larger fry in a couple of months if I were you I would hook up with Chad and talk about it. He could hold a group for you until you are ready I'm sure, he's a great guy to work with. Check out his site at http://www.SanDiegoDiscus.com


Look under his contact info and give him a call... In another 2 months those fry will definitely be bigger :)

[Skip]

I might just have to buy some older ones from you then ^_^
If that's going to be the case, I might just grow them out in bare bottom 45gal...

there you go! :)

[calihawker]

If you end up requiring larger than 2" juvies, at the moment there is a small group of my fry, all around the 2 1/2" mark at San Diego Discus in the care of Chad Hughes. When they get big enough to sell they go to Chad :) if you are really interested in getting some larger fry in a couple of months if I were you I would hook up with Chad and talk about it. He could hold a group for you until you are ready I'm sure, he's a great guy to work with. Check out his site at http://www.SanDiegoDiscus.com


Look under his contact info and give him a call... In another 2 months those fry will definitely be bigger :)

Also, Chad would be a good person to consult with regarding raising juvies in a planted tank. I would try to dissuade you from doing it however. Best move I ever made, raising the juvies bare bottom then adding them to the planted display. With your tank being established, just get adults. You'll have a way better experience.

Steve

[calihawker]

Oops post.

Steve

[oscarzx]

I'm actually considering setting up my 55 gallon for that purpose.....

I just need to spend a little bit more cash to finish it off. ;)