Planted 125g Advice/Opions Wanted

[VWalker]

Hey guys, first post!

I would like to get some advice, recommendations, and opinions on a 125 gallon low tech planted discus tank I'll be doing here in the near future. I only have the tank and lights atm. I'm sure this has came up plenty of enough times but I've been reading many threads and posts regarding planted tanks and stuff and now I'm just exhausted from it and ready to get some specific responses of my own on how I'd like to get mine up and running. I currently have a 55g set up with 5 4.5-5" discus, 10 cardinals, a few corys and a small pleco with a couple potted plants.

Substrate?: I really like the idea of the most superficial surface being sand and as I've seen some of you mentioned, use pool filter sand? Do I get that from a pool supply store or something and how much is it?

Also, what about the layers underneath the sand? What is a good first layer to put down for low light plants? Will it mix much with sand when planting the plants and doing maintenance?

Lighting? 2 Coralife 36" dual t5 fixtures came with the tank. Are those going to be sufficient enough fixtures? What bulbs would you recommend for crypts and swords that I would put into the tank? 6-8 hrs of run time?

Filtration? Obviously I'd be stepping into canister filtration but does anyone have a large tank around my size that have nice filtration and what type of filters are you using? What about 2 FX5s? Too much for a planted tank?

I'll be keeping in mind the fact that I'll be having the plants going for a while before I put my adult discus in but I really wanna get it right the first try or at least limit myself to minor adjustments along the way so I can keep my discus happy and thriving in their new home.:juggle:

Thanks for looking,
Vaughn

[Darrell Ward]

Of course it's all a matter of opinion, so here's mine. I think conventional planted tanks and discus suck! The line between what's best for the discus, and what's best for the plants is so fine, that it practically doesn't exist. It's way too much work for too little reward. So, this is what I have done....

Tank: 6', 30" deep, 240 gals. 55 gal. sump, with fluidized bed filtration and Kaldness media.
Substrate: Substrate and discus don't go together for the most part, so I use a thin layer of pool filter sand.
Lighting: I've used all kinds of lighting on this tank, they all mostly sucked. Finally ended up using 2- 70 watt double ended 6500K MH, hanging 8"
above the tank. Works great. Not too bright, great shimmer, looks great.
Plants: Because there is only a thin layer of sand, plants are limited to floating plants, and hortwort. These were found dirt cheap at the local
pond supply store. They thrive on the light, and sheer neglect. Being that the discus are all wild, Tetra Blackwater Exract is used. Tints the water slightly.

I guess you could call the tank a hybrid, but it works great, and way easier than the so called "Low Tech" tanks.

[VWalker]

Very cool looking tank! I like how your driftwood looks through the tank. How do you have it placed? Thanks for posting.

[Darrell Ward]

Very cool looking tank! I like how your driftwood looks through the tank. How do you have it placed? Thanks for posting.

It's fastened with screws to pieces of hardwood strips, and hung across the tank bracing.

[strawberryblonde]

I only just re-scaped my grow out tank yesterday. I had originally placed my 4" discus into my current community tank, minus the community occupants and I HATED it! The color of the substrate was all wrong for discus (Eco Complete, which is black) and the tall graceful plants were a pain because they tangled up constantly with all the vacuuming I was doing.

In redoing the tank I chose one large gorgeous manzanita stump for the center of the tank. Mine is a pentagon shape, so one piece is all that fits and I chose to make it the focal point rather than the cool branchier types that you can do in a standard tank.

Once I had the piece of DW picked out, I hunted for the right color for sand and gravel. I found Eco complete in Peace River gravel and Golden Sand. They are very light, but not white like pool sand.

I made a gravel "wall" by gluing gravel with gorilla glue (dries to the same color as the sand) and built it up to about 2". I just drew out the basic shape on a paper template of my tank bottom, placed the stump on the paper and found a pleasing shape for the wall.

Once it was cured I redid the tank, placing the peace river gravel in the back and part of the sides behind the wall and the golden sand in the entire front.

The sand has a better chance of staying put since there's a wall to contain it and my cleaning chores just got easier since the discus eat and poop in the front of the tank and then the laminar flow of water swishes it to one corner.

For plants I used dwarf sagitarria for on both sides, added one ruby red sword to the left side for balance and tied java fern to the stump itself on the opposite side of the ruby sword. I then placed an amazon sword into a squishy pot and placed it directly into the stump.

My tank looks planted, is low maintenance and looks pretty awesome (to me anyways). It's not conventional, and it does still have the horrid painted blue background, but oh well, it IS only a grow out tank and won't be a permanent home for my discus.

Here are a couple of pics from yesterday. Sorry for the reflections and cloudy water...it still hadn't settled. LOL

The first 3 pics are under a 15w T8 and the last 2 are with my 24w T5. They are more than sufficient for growing out these plants, even in a 28 deep tank!

[laborelch]

Substrate:
small pea gravel (Lowes) for the general layout (hills, slopes), then a layer of eco-complete/laterite for plants, top it all with a 0.5" layer of play sand (Lowes, rinsed well).
Lighting:
2x150W HQI + 2 fluorescents on low tech 90g, lights for 8hrs/day, HIQ 4hrs/day.
Filtration:
2 Eheim Pro II.
Have FX5 and Eheim pro III on my 200g. IMHO 2 FX5's would be too much current for a 125g - even tricky for a 200g. FX5 output is much more than the Eheim. Eheim much easier to clean/maintain. I wouldn't buy another FX5.

90g low-tech

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/46927/2008498720059391507S425x425Q85.jpg

200g low-tech:

http://inlinethumb18.webshots.com/46417/2325094910059391507S425x425Q85.jpg

current 200g setup (2x 400W):
left side http://inlinethumb02.webshots.com/48001/2592601720059391507S425x425Q85.jpg
right side http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/47070/2351205390059391507S425x425Q85.jpg

[VWalker]

Nice set ups guys!

SB, you did a nice job with the pentagon! Your discus are beauties btw.

Lab, you're tank looks awesome. Would you run 1 FX5 or Eheim Pro III on a 125 gal or 1 of either or and a smaller complementary filter? How would you go about it?

[strawberryblonde]

Awww thanks! Hans has some mighty gorgeous fish, huh? =)

Like I said, my tank isn't an ideal design and I'd much rather have Darrell's tank and setup (dang it, he refuses to send to me by FedEx!) but I was hoping the layout would give you ideas and also wanted you to see how gorgeous the golden sand by Caribsea is.

Now if only I could get the blue off the back of the tank, get rid of the three glass panes in the front and replace them with one long piece of glass....oh wait, that'd be a standard 55 rectangle! LOL

[Harriett]

My 2 cents about your original questions:
I also like the carib sand you see in this thread, but you can also use pool sand easily. Carib is more costly, pool sand is about $8 for 50lbs. I like 67k plant lights. For the plants you are talking about: about 1.2 on up wpg will work fine for crypts, but the more the better; swords need at least 1.5wpg to do well, I think--in my tanks, anyhow. Balance your lights and your nutrients accordingly--if you are a plant novice, do some reading, it pays off. Filtration wise, 2 FX5s is overkill. If you use 1-FX5 on a 125 tank, it will work well. You could build yourself a spray bar and run it perpendicular to the floor at the substrate level on the back wall. [you would be building a TEE shaped thng--PVC connecting to the outflow, then the horizontal spray bar attached to the vertical PVC]. I would also, for back up, use a smaller canister--I'd run it with the spray bar 2-3 inches below the water line down the length of the tank. This would be superior filtration and give you some water movement on the surface for gas exhange. I would use big old prefilters on the 2 intakes. I use sponges from larger sponge filters for this purpose in my tanks. Keeps the canisters really really clean. I would start with 8 hours of light/day. Increase 1 hour every 7 days or so to 10-11 hours/day and monitor. Don't use any ferts for at least the first month. If/when you see algae, stabilize and wait for it to retreat before moving forward. There are a couple kinds of algae that most all planted tanks run through while maturing--silica, or a fuzzy light brown algae is the prime one. Once the tank settles, it will dissapear.
I would wait to put discus in the tank until it is seasoned and purring. Discus create a lot of nitrogen in the water! Best of luck. I think your plant choices will work well. As you probably already know, it is easier to get this project balanced with more plants rather than a sprinkling of plants. Also, I would plant it up with some fast growing stem plants as well, in the beginning, which you can pull later--they will absorb more nitrogen quickly as the tank settles, with whatever fish you start with? OK, I am rambling--hope this all helps, LOL.
Best regards,
Harriett

[laborelch]

Thanks!
for a 125g with discus, I think the Eheim Pro III would be sufficient. My 200g was setup as river tank for hillstream loaches before, where I needed a lot of current (= two strong filters). Not so much for the discus. You could go with one of the big ones and a smaller filter as backup. I actually don't run spray bars or anything, just point the filter outflows directly to the back of the tank to slow the current. Plants are mainly crypts, saggitaria, baby tears & lotus. All discus are fully grown and I change 50% water & vacuum gravel per week.
here another pic, where I used eco-complete as only substrate - didn't last long, too dark for the discus and my pigeons showed quite some pepper (also my background is black and I can't change it ... should have ordered blue instead)

[VWalker]

Awww thanks! Hans has some mighty gorgeous fish, huh? =)

Like I said, my tank isn't an ideal design and I'd much rather have Darrell's tank and setup (dang it, he refuses to send to me by FedEx!) but I was hoping the layout would give you ideas and also wanted you to see how gorgeous the golden sand by Caribsea is.

Now if only I could get the blue off the back of the tank, get rid of the three glass panes in the front and replace them with one long piece of glass....oh wait, that'd be a standard 55 rectangle! LOL

Yes, I believe you're right about the 55 lol. Thanks for the ideas and I'll have to check into that sand bcoz it really is sharp looking.

[VWalker]

Thank you all so much for you're suggestions, advice, and experience.. I really appreciate it. That Eheim Pro III is a little steep for my pockets at the moment so I've been looking into the Fluval FX5 and something small for back up as you guys were saying.

Lab, if you were to redo your discus tank would you leave out the eco complete?

Harriett, thank you for you're lighting tips. I really don't mind the rambling, hah. I'll take all the info of experience I can get at this point.

Btw, some UV sterilizers came with the tank. Will they hold useful?

[laborelch]

Lab, if you were to redo your discus tank would you leave out the eco complete?

I think I'd still use it as middle layer. Plants don't really like pure sand too much as substrate.


Btw, some UV sterilizers came with the tank. Will they hold useful?
I run a UV on the tank as well - I think it keeps the water cleaner (less suspended algae and other algae less likely to spread).

[strawberryblonde]

I'm trying out the Eco Complete Peace River gravel for my plants. It's very fine grained, which surprised me. Larger than sand, finer than the black Eco. I topped it with cheapo gravel in the same colors just to hold my plants in place while they put down more roots.

Cuz I dunno about your discus, but mine root all around the plants looking for any tidbits they might have missed. I get up in the morning and my first task is always to scoop the floating plants up and set them in a bowl of water till WC at night when I can replant them. LOL

[VWalker]

I think I'd still use it as middle layer. Plants don't really like pure sand too much as substrate.

What about sand over top of the eco complete stuff? What are your thoughts on that and will it mix too much you think?

[VWalker]

Cuz I dunno about your discus, but mine root all around the plants looking for any tidbits they might have missed. I get up in the morning and my first task is always to scoop the floating plants up and set them in a bowl of water till WC at night when I can replant them. LOL

Lol mine do that too minus the rooting :p

[strawberryblonde]

ROLF! I swear mine are the smartest danged fish ever! My "runt" (he's growing much slower than the others) figured out how to get food without the constant nudges and shoving. He hides in the sword plant, then watches for a tasty chunk to float away from the group. Then he darts out, grabs it and dashes back to the plant to eat it in peace.

Just two days ago one of the other fish followed him around back of the driftwood and caught him rooting up the plants to get the beefheart that floats that way. By tonight ALL the fish were darting back to that spot to get the food. And wouldn't you know it, as soon as they all showed up and pointed their little heads down, Number Five (my name for the runt) swam out to the front of the tank and started grabbing all their food.

They were oblivious to what he was doing, so by the time they polished off the tidbits back there and swam back out for more yummies, it was all gone and Number Five was looking VERY fat and happy.

They've also learned to follow the corys around. I guess they figured out that the corys are excellent food hunters. I laugh every time I see the five of them scooting around the tank, heads down, watching the corys to see where they stop for food. The second a cory stops, they all swoop down and start fanning the sand in hopes of getting a bite to eat.

Needless to say, I don't have to vacuum my tank much. There is rarely anything left but some poop. LOL

[strawberryblonde]

Alrighty then, decided to snap a couple shots of what my tank looks like when I wake up in the morning. LOL

[laborelch]

What about sand over top of the eco complete stuff? What are your thoughts on that and will it mix too much you think?

Doesn't really mix in my tank. Will try to get some close-up shots tonight. I do like the play sand as it is not as uniform (fine sand + little bigger pieces 3-4mm). Looks very natural. Easy to gravel vac and as long as you don't go to deep won't affect the eco-complete. No issues with fish uprooting anything either (since I removed the plecos).

[strawberryblonde]

Are your fish adults labro? Mine are still babies and even they even root up the plants with the eco complete in there. Mine is the Peace River Rock version instead of the black one. I'm almost at the point of just leaving that one particular spot bare since it's the only place that they do all the rooting.

The water flow in my tank pushes tidbits of food over there...<sigh>

[VWalker]

Lab, would love to see close ups when you get a chance. Maybe even a layered shot of the sand over your eco complete if that may be visible.

SB, maybe your fishes like the shade they make from uprooting, lol.

[laborelch]

ok, took me a while to get some pics (and figure out how to re-size them in aperture)...

All my discus in the planted tank are adults. They are pretty docile, don't uproot plants or eat my army of RCS (the red specks/dots you see in the pics). I also have 15 cories. The little black pieces are eco-complete that I stirred up during the last w/c. I have one pic that shows the sand/flourite layers but somehow it won't upload right now.

6660866609666106661166612

[laborelch]

you can see the layer a bit in the second pic. This is not a good example, as it is close to the filter intake and corner of the tank and I didn't add much eco-complete/flourite there at all (still the only corner it is visible :-)) also, I added quite some slope with the sand towards the intake....

666136661466615

[Darrell Ward]

I'm trying out the Eco Complete Peace River gravel for my plants. It's very fine grained, which surprised me. Larger than sand, finer than the black Eco. I topped it with cheapo gravel in the same colors just to hold my plants in place while they put down more roots.

Cuz I dunno about your discus, but mine root all around the plants looking for any tidbits they might have missed. I get up in the morning and my first task is always to scoop the floating plants up and set them in a bowl of water till WC at night when I can replant them. LOL

Having to replant daily would annoy me to point of throwing them in the trash! :D

[VWalker]

Awesome pictures Lab. Thanks for all of your help guys!

[strawberryblonde]

Having to replant daily would annoy me to point of throwing them in the trash! :D

Rofl, it's definitely reached that point around here! I just plain gave up this weekend and gifted my 3.5 gallon fry tank with yet MORE plants! I have a swarm of itsy bitsy happy fry that I never see because the lush greenery hides them

And woohoo, not too much longer on the oddly shaped tank and uprooted plants for me! I mentioned somewhere on a thread last Friday or Saturday that I'd found a 115gal on craigslist that was totally gorgeous and came with everything...I mean EVERYTHING. Even has 2 brand new UV filters. Ok, so I was drooling over it because the price was so danged cheap, and when I didn't hear back from the guy I figured I'd missed it and it had sold.

Newp! He called last night and it's mine. Goodbye ugly little tank, hello big new water world.

[Darrell Ward]

Cool! You definitely scored on that deal!

[strawberryblonde]

Gonna need a thread of my own for the new tank though. I thought adding a 115 was scary, but when I double checked his measurements, it's actually a 150! When he said 4' long, the 115 sounded reasonable. But it's 24" wide and 30" high. Eeeeesh, gonna need more discus. More filtration, more driftwood, more clients to pay for it all. LOL

[VWalker]

lol! congrats on the steal! my new tank came with a couple UVs as well. We're gonna have to keep each other up-to-date on how the new tanks come along.

[Darrell Ward]

Gonna need a thread of my own for the new tank though. I thought adding a 115 was scary, but when I double checked his measurements, it's actually a 150! When he said 4' long, the 115 sounded reasonable. But it's 24" wide and 30" high. Eeeeesh, gonna need more discus. More filtration, more driftwood, more clients to pay for it all. LOL

Yep, it's a 150. I have a tank of the same dimensions. They make great discus tanks with the 30" depth, especially for big adult fish. I have 8, 6 inch plus adults in mine. That's plenty of fish for this tank, something to keep in mind. I wouldn't do more than 10 adults max. to avoid constant sparring. You will need tools to reach the tank bottom however, unless you have six foot long arms. LOL!

[Harriett]

Btw, some UV sterilizers came with the tank. Will they hold useful?[/QUOTE]

There are a lot of opinions about UV sterilizers. Here's mine: I too bought a tank that came with one and 10 years later have not yet used it.
1. Unless you have the UV set up with its own very slow pump to run through, it is a waste--the effectiveness of the UV unit is completely dependent upon the DWELL TIME, i.e. the length of time any given amount of water in the UV unit is in contact with the UV light. This is considerably slowly than any regular filter, so be aware of that. The UV needs time to kill whatever you are trying to kill in the water column, it ain't instant.
2. If you actually set it up properly, the UV could impact the level of 'bugs' in the tank; and so does doing regular sufficient water changing.
3. If you actually set it up properly, and the UV destroyed any bugs in the tank, this scenario would ensue: living things such as your fish, build and maintain strong imune systems in part, because they have to regularly exercise their systems against little bugs that come along. It increases the health and strength and vigor of the fish. If you create an environment where the water is basically sterile, then sooner or later, when you introduce some sort of bug either in the water or on a fish, you will have a tank full of depressed imune system fish in there and they will be much more likely to get flattened.
That's the theory.
In my book, it is better to leave that thing on the shelf and put attenton and work into great maintenance of the tank.
Just my 2 cents.
Harriett

[Darrell Ward]

Honestly, I've never found a UV very useful in a discus tank either. I bought a large unit for my 240 gal. about 5 or 6 years ago when they were all the rage. I used it about 6 months until it was time to change the lamp, took it off, and put in the garage. It hasn't been touched since, nor have I ever missed it.

[strawberryblonde]

Yep, it's a 150. I have a tank of the same dimensions. They make great discus tanks with the 30" depth, especially for big adult fish. I have 8, 6 inch plus adults in mine. That's plenty of fish for this tank, something to keep in mind. I wouldn't do more than 10 adults max. to avoid constant sparring. You will need tools to reach the tank bottom however, unless you have six foot long arms. LOL!

Yeah, I did the math yesterday and figured out that it truly is a 150, which is awesome! I'm planning on 8 discus in the tank. Just need to narrow down exactly which strains I want. And I'm considering getting 4 more marlboro's to grow out in that tank for now and then I'll transfer all 5 to my 54 gallon once they reach 5". Not sure on the Marlboro's just yet though...only gonna order the original 3 for now.

I don't mind the 30" height too awfully much. I currently have nearly that (28" plus a HUGE top lip) on my pentagon and replanting plants is a bit of a pain, but beyond that my height, plus the length of my arms makes it workable. (so by now you've guessed it, and I'll just say it here...I'm 6 feet tall...sigh)

I got TWO UV filters with my new tank, but I'm not planning on using them. They'll just collect dust till the next time I have a chance to donate to a charity garage sale. LOL

Even better news: Talked to the guy I'm buying the tank from and told him I couldn't use his way expensive ceramic substrate, so he offered me a) a $35 discount on the tank or b) a 40 gallon sump, complete with all the parts and pieces. He also mentioned that he has several breeder tanks, misc equipment for them and a spare 55 that I can have for $20 each. I feel like it's Christmas in May. Wheeeee...gonna need a bigger house now!

[Second Hand Pat]

Toni, you really 6 foot? Dang girl. I'm not even 5 foot.

[strawberryblonde]

Toni, you really 6 foot? Dang girl. I'm not even 5 foot.

So you're vertically challenged, eh? LOL

Yep, really 6 foot. Hated it as a kid, but as an adult it comes in handy...except when dealing with clients with napoleon complex. =)

[Darrell Ward]

:laugh:

[hydrophyte]

A riparium setup could be an easier way to combine discus with plants. Riparium plants are generally more forgiving than most underwater plants.

[JL15219]

Of course it's all a matter of opinion, so here's mine. I think conventional planted tanks and discus suck! The line between what's best for the discus, and what's best for the plants is so fine, that it practically doesn't exist. It's way too much work for too little reward. So, this is what I have done....

Tank: 6', 30" deep, 240 gals. 55 gal. sump, with fluidized bed filtration and Kaldness media.
Substrate: Substrate and discus don't go together for the most part, so I use a thin layer of pool filter sand.
Lighting: I've used all kinds of lighting on this tank, they all mostly sucked. Finally ended up using 2- 70 watt double ended 6500K MH, hanging 8"
above the tank. Works great. Not too bright, great shimmer, looks great.
Plants: Because there is only a thin layer of sand, plants are limited to floating plants, and hortwort. These were found dirt cheap at the local
pond supply store. They thrive on the light, and sheer neglect. Being that the discus are all wild, Tetra Blackwater Exract is used. Tints the water slightly.

I guess you could call the tank a hybrid, but it works great, and way easier than the so called "Low Tech" tanks.

Very nice tank Darrell where did you get the branches?

[Darrell Ward]

Thanks, I got the wood at http://manzanita.com/

[JL15219]

Thanks, I got the wood at http://manzanita.com/

Oh okay I sent them an email to see how much it would be for 4 to 5 pieces.....