NooB with new Discus

[mecase]

I have been reading this forum for months now and was going to buy 6 adult Discus for my 80 gallon planted tank but decided that I would learn more (and save money) by growing juvies. I bought 8 juvies this weekend at my LFS here in Portland, OR. I was originally going to order from Hans but found out from the LFS that their fish come from Hans so I went that route. They all look healthy and ate the first day. I am lucky enough to work from home so they are in a tank in my office and can eat many times a day as well as get used to activity around them (and I can do the daily water changes easier). It has been fascinating so far watching them work out the pecking order of their little group. I will post pictures when I have enough posts.

Meg

[moon_knight1971]

Hi Meg and welcome to SD! In the end, it's actually more expensive getting babies over adults when you factor in your time, foods, water, electricity, etc...BUT I do agree that you will learn to appreciate these fish more when you actually get to raise them into adults. Best of luck with them!

Joey!

[Skip]

Get 3 to 4 inch.. Not to small, not to big

[discuspaul]

All the best to you, Meg, with your new group of youngsters.
Call on us if you have questions or need any help.

[mecase]

Hi Meg and welcome to SD! In the end, it's actually more expensive getting babies over adults when you factor in your time, foods, water, electricity, etc...BUT I do agree that you will learn to appreciate these fish more when you actually get to raise them into adults. Best of luck with them!

Joey!

I suspect you are right about the cost being greater with babies....when you consider that I have now ordered much special food, a larger growout tank since the 20 gallon they are now in is only going to be large enough another couple of weeks, etc.

Get 3 to 4 inch.. Not to small, not to big
Mine are 2.5" - 3". 2 Red Turqs, 2 Cobalt, 2 Blue Diamond and 2 Brilliant

All the best to you, Meg, with your new group of youngsters.
Call on us if you have questions or need any help.
Thanks for all the well wishes. I am sure I will have my questions along the way and am grateful for this site and all the knowledge here!

[Larry Bugg]

Hi Meg and welcome to SD! In the end, it's actually more expensive getting babies over adults when you factor in your time, foods, water, electricity, etc...BUT I do agree that you will learn to appreciate these fish more when you actually get to raise them into adults. Best of luck with them!

Joey!

I suspect you are right about the cost being greater with babies....when you consider that I have now ordered much special food, a larger growout tank since the 20 gallon they are now in is only going to be large enough another couple of weeks, etc.

Get 3 to 4 inch.. Not to small, not to big
Mine are 2.5" - 3". 2 Red Turqs, 2 Cobalt, 2 Blue Diamond and 2 Brilliant

All the best to you, Meg, with your new group of youngsters.
Call on us if you have questions or need any help.
Thanks for all the well wishes. I am sure I will have my questions along the way and am grateful for this site and all the knowledge here!

Someone has a reply that you want to reply to. Look at the bottom of their reply. You will see Reply, Reply with Quote and then just teh "+. You can hit teh Reply with Quote if you just want to reply to one message and it will put that message in your new message with their name. Like I just did here.

[Larry Bugg]

I have been reading this forum for months now and was going to buy 6 adult Discus for my 80 gallon planted tank but decided that I would learn more (and save money) by growing juvies. I bought 8 juvies this weekend at my LFS here in Portland, OR. I was originally going to order from Hans but found out from the LFS that their fish come from Hans so I went that route. They all look healthy and ate the first day. I am lucky enough to work from home so they are in a tank in my office and can eat many times a day as well as get used to activity around them (and I can do the daily water changes easier). It has been fascinating so far watching them work out the pecking order of their little group. I will post pictures when I have enough posts.

Meg

If you want to reply to more than one message hit the "+ for the first message and then hit Reply With Quote for the next message and it will bring up both Quotes in your new message box like I did here.



Hi Meg and welcome to SD! In the end, it's actually more expensive getting babies over adults when you factor in your time, foods, water, electricity, etc...BUT I do agree that you will learn to appreciate these fish more when you actually get to raise them into adults. Best of luck with them!

Joey!

I suspect you are right about the cost being greater with babies....when you consider that I have now ordered much special food, a larger growout tank since the 20 gallon they are now in is only going to be large enough another couple of weeks, etc.

Get 3 to 4 inch.. Not to small, not to big
Mine are 2.5" - 3". 2 Red Turqs, 2 Cobalt, 2 Blue Diamond and 2 Brilliant

All the best to you, Meg, with your new group of youngsters.
Call on us if you have questions or need any help.
Thanks for all the well wishes. I am sure I will have my questions along the way and am grateful for this site and all the knowledge here!

Welcome to the forum and the world of Discus. This is a great place to hang out.

[farebox]

Hello Meg, good luck with your fish. Just wanted to let you know with some afford they will grow out nicely. I did the same thing, brought total of five 2-3inch fish for my 55GA planted tank about a year ago, and just yesterday a pair formed and laid eggs on the filter tube. All fish have grown to about 5-6 inches now. So hang in there and enjoy....
farebox

[mecase]

If you want to reply to more than one message hit the "+ for the first message and then hit Reply With Quote for the next message and it will bring up both Quotes in your new message box like I did here.




Welcome to the forum and the world of Discus. This is a great place to hand out.
Thanks for the technical help. I trust you meant "hang" out!?


Hello Meg, good luck with your fish. Just wanted to let you know with some afford they will grow out nicely. I did the same thing, brought total of five 2-3inch fish for my 55GA planted tank about a year ago, and just yesterday a pair formed and laid eggs on the filter tube. All fish have grown to about 5-6 inches now. So hang in there and enjoy....
farebox
Thanks. I am enjoying already. I have never seen as much pushing and shoving as when I feed them, but I will just try to make sure they all get plenty to eat and resist the urge to anthropomorphize (sp?)

[deepflyball]

Meg i would think real hard about growing out discus in a planted tank. 50 to75% water changes each day feeding beefheart in planted tanks is hard. Thats why most everyone feeds in bearbottom tanks. Jerry

[mecase]

Meg i would think real hard about growing out discus in a planted tank. 50 to75% water changes each day feeding beefheart in planted tanks is hard. Thats why most everyone feeds in bearbottom tanks. Jerry

I'm not going to put them in the planted tank until they are around 5". After reading all the info here about the benefits of a barebottom tank I put them in a 20 gallon. I have a 50 gallon on the way, which will also be bare bottom, that I will transfer them to in the next couple of weeks. I have had them for a week now and they are doing well and eating 6 times a day. I am experiencing a mini cycle as I have gone from 6 tetra to these 8 juvies in that tank. I am doing large (75%) water changes and adding Seachem Stability. Hopefully it will calm down soon. The big problem I have right now is that I have to travel this week for work. I had no travel scheduled for the next couple of months but, Murphy's Law, I was informed of a meeting I must go to this coming week. I plan on doing a large water change tomorrow before I leave and will be back on Friday when I can do another. My son, the marine biologist and long time aquarist, will come by on his lunch hour and do a 25% water change. I'm planning on having him feed them once a day with flakes (they eat them fine). I am really only worried because of the mini cycle. Does this plan seem reasonable?

[mecase]

Could use some advise. I have had my 8 juvies for 2.5 weeks. They are eating fine and alot and are growing really fast. I have them in a 20g tank that was cycled. I have gotten a 50g that I was planning on moving them to in 2 or three weeks. I have it set up but it is not cycled. The 20g is just not able to keep up with the bio load. I have been doing two 75% water changes a day (with Prime) to try to keep control of the ammonia and nitrites as well as vacuuming every two hours. I did a water change this morning at 8 and now at 2PM ammonia is at .5 and nitrites are at 1. Here is my question: would they be better off in the totally uncycled 50 gallon with 2x daily large water changes than they are in the 20 g? At least the bioload would be diluted by the larger volume of water and it would actually cycle at some point. I have a hydro sponge in the 20 g but it has only been in there for less than a week I also put some ceramic bio material in the filter tank 2 weeks ago that I can move to the 50g.

[Skip]

if your tank is reading 2ppm ammonia, your tank is not cycled

[mecase]

Sorry if I was not clear...what I was saying is: at 2 oclock in the afternoon the ammonia is at .5 after doing a 75% water change at 8 AM. My whole point is that I do not believe that the tank will ever be able to cycle completely with the bio load that is being added to it. When I put them in the tank, it was cycled and I would think that a mini cycle would have been completed by now if it was going to at all (2.5 weeks). Would the fish be better off in a much larger tank with multiple daily water changes even though it has not cycled? My sense is that they would be but I don't want to endanger them if I am wrong.

[evenstarms]

I am here in Portland, OR as well and am looking at getting my first discus. I was thinking about getting them from Hans also but if the fish store here in Portland gets them from Hans I would love to know which LFS it was. I don't know if you are supposed to tell me but if you could that would be great. I usually go to The Wet Spot. I am so looking forward to getting started with discus.

[Skip]

unless you are getting the fish before the get into the tanks at the LFS.. its not the same thing.. no telling what a hans fish will catch in the LFS tanks.. they don't qt.. just plop and drop into their existing tanks.. as one newbie to another, you should just save up a little and get them directly from HANS..

[ericatdallas]

I am here in Portland, OR as well and am looking at getting my first discus. I was thinking about getting them from Hans also but if the fish store here in Portland gets them from Hans I would love to know which LFS it was. I don't know if you are supposed to tell me but if you could that would be great. I usually go to The Wet Spot. I am so looking forward to getting started with discus.

It's no secret...
The Cichlid Exchange
2030 NE 42nd Avenue
Portland, OR 97213
Phone: 503 287 4731
Fax: 503 287 4752

Liquid Sunshine
410 E. 11th Avenue
Eugene, OR. 97401
Phone: 541 344 3474

http://www.discus-hans-usa.com/or.htm

Although, why would you want to order it from a LFS if you could order it from Hans?

[Skip]

Although, why would you want to order it from a LFS if you could order it from Hans?

its worth it, to have Hans personally pick the fish out for you :)

[mmorris]

I have had my 8 juvies for 2.5 weeks. They are eating fine and alot and are growing really fast. I have them in a 20g tank that was cycled. I have gotten a 50g that I was planning on moving them to in 2 or three weeks. I have it set up but it is not cycled. The 20g is just not able to keep up with the bio load. I have been doing two 75% water changes a day (with Prime) to try to keep control of the ammonia and nitrites as well as vacuuming every two hours. I did a water change this morning at 8 and now at 2PM ammonia is at .5 and nitrites are at 1. Here is my question: would they be better off in the totally uncycled 50 gallon with 2x daily large water changes than they are in the 20 g? At least the bioload would be diluted by the larger volume of water and it would actually cycle at some point. I have a hydro sponge in the 20 g but it has only been in there for less than a week I also put some ceramic bio material in the filter tank 2 weeks ago that I can move to the 50g.

Eight juvies in a 20 gallon? I'd move them to the 50 gallon immediately. If you move all of the media from the 20 to the 50, then the 50 will be cycled every bit as much as the 20. I'm a bit surprised the tank hasn't caught up. How long did you have the tetras in the tank before you got the discus and are they still in the tank? What are you using to test your water? How old is the kit? Are you seeing any signs at all that ammonia and nitrite are stressing the fish? You got the discus 2 1/2 weeks ago, but the ceramic is only from 2 weeks and the sponge from a week. What were you using for filtration when the tetras only were in the tank?

[mecase]

Eight juvies in a 20 gallon? I'd move them to the 50 gallon immediately. If you move all of the media from the 20 to the 50, then the 50 will be cycled every bit as much as the 20. I'm a bit surprised the tank hasn't caught up. How long did you have the tetras in the tank before you got the discus and are they still in the tank? What are you using to test your water? How old is the kit? Are you seeing any signs at all that ammonia and nitrite are stressing the fish? You got the discus 2 1/2 weeks ago, but the ceramic is only from 2 weeks and the sponge from a week. What were you using for filtration when the tetras only were in the tank?

I decided that I would move them to the 50 gallon and I will move the media as well. It has a penguin bio wheel filter as does the 50 gallon. The bio wheels in the larger one are bigger than the one in the 20 gallon so I can't just switch one of them out. I can put the small one in the tank of the larger filter but had some concern that it would not get enough oxygen to keep the bacteria viable if it were submerged. I put the sponge and the ceramic media in to try to increase the ability of the bacteria to handle the bio load when it didn't seem to be getting through the mini cycle. I use an API kit and it is working quite well on my other tanks so I trust it is accurate. The tetra were in the tank for about 6 weeks and it tested as cycled but there were only 6 serpae tetra that got fed a few flakes every day or every other day. I have been watching the juvies and don't see any signs of stress. One won't eat anything but bloodworms but I don't think that is a result of the ammonia or nitrite. Is it possible that it is? All the others eat anything I give them.
Thanks for the help

[mecase]

I decided that I would move them to the 50 gallon and I will move the media as well. It has a penguin bio wheel filter as does the 50 gallon. The bio wheels in the larger one are bigger than the one in the 20 gallon so I can't just switch one of them out. I can put the small one in the tank of the larger filter but had some concern that it would not get enough oxygen to keep the bacteria viable if it were submerged. I put the sponge and the ceramic media in to try to increase the ability of the bacteria to handle the bio load when it didn't seem to be getting through the mini cycle. I use an API kit and it is working quite well on my other tanks so I trust it is accurate. The tetra were in the tank for about 6 weeks and it tested as cycled but there were only 6 serpae tetra that got fed a few flakes every day or every other day. I have been watching the juvies and don't see any signs of stress. One won't eat anything but bloodworms but I don't think that is a result of the ammonia or nitrite. Is it possible that it is? All the others eat anything I give them.
Thanks for the help

And I forgot.....the tetra are back in the 80g planted tank

[mmorris]

It has a penguin bio wheel filter as does the 50 gallon. The bio wheels in the larger one are bigger than the one in the 20 gallon so I can't just switch one of them out...One won't eat anything but bloodworms but I don't think that is a result of the ammonia or nitrite. Is it possible that it is? All the others eat anything I give them.

Can you move the whole filter over, not just the bio wheel? I doubt very much Hans or the lfs feeds nothing but bloodworms so it might be stress making the one finiky. But, he's eating.

[mecase]

I got the babies into the 50 gallon and moved over the 20 gallon filter with the existing sponge and 1 new one. I am able to keep the water parameters in line with 1 50% WC a day. We now have NH3/NH4 @ .5 (but Seachem ammonia alert says 0), NO2 @ .5 and NO3 @ <10 right before WC so it is looking pretty good. I floated the bio wheels from the new filter. I don't know if it will do anything but it can't hurt. When I feel sure the sponges can handle the tank, I'll remove the small filter and put on the new one.

I've attached a couple of clips of them on YouTube. The one concern I am still having is the small guy that you can see in the corner of one of the videos. After many hours of watching his behavior I am beginning to think he may be blind. I see him eat only if something smacks him in the face. If the other fish are very active, like while eating, he will stay out of the way in the corner but will swim with them otherwise. I can't really see anything wrong with him. I did try an Epsom salt treatment thinking he might be blocked but saw no noticable difference. Has anyone had any experience with this kind of thing? I was thinking of trying to work on hand feeding him and see if that might possibly help.

Well, I need 2 more post to post links so....

[mecase]

9

[mecase]

10

[mecase]

http://www.youtube.com/user/mecase11#p/a/u/1/5dph791ob74
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvMs_97s-8w

[discolicious]

I'm sure your little "hider" isn't blind. He is exhibiting the normal behavior for the fish that is at the bottom of the totem pole in the pecking order. He stays out of their way when they're feeding because he innately understands that he will be attacked if he does. He is accepting his place (for now). He swims with them when they aren't eating as a way of trying to safely work his way in to earn a right to feed with them. There are different things you can try like always feeding them on one end of the tank. Once they learn to go there to eat, you can slip him a little in his area and he will probably get it while the others are distracted. You can also try slipping a divider in while they are feeding to build his confidence. Most of the time, the fish will begin to solve the problem on his own. I have two 2.5" discus in a tank with five that are 3.5 to 4". Neither one backs down to any of them. The low man is a 4" blue snakeskin that hides until eating time, then comes out and grabs plenty of food while a Blue Diamond and a wild blue cross chase him around. Though he is larger than they are, he has accepted this role for now. It will probably change later.

[mecase]

Thanks for the response. I tested him/her this morning when he had his nose to the glass and, you are right, he is definitely not blind! I tried feeding the other fish in the front corner and slipped him some bits behind the sponge. The others quickly got over and ate those and then went back to the other corner so we will have to keep working on that one. I guess, in the long run, he will have to work this one out for himself. I really never thought that I would care so much about a fish...Discus can do that to you!

[mmorris]

I don't think this is normal, particularly since you got them a month ago. Does he eat at all? Has this being going on since you got him?

[mecase]

I really don't think he is eating at all. Every once in a while I will think I see him catch something but, if so, it is few and far between. I've gone back over videos I have taken and see him eating on June 7, so I think it must be a couple of weeks. I can't see anything wrong with him but I am so new at this that there might be something obvious that I am missing. The others have grown so much in the last 2 weeks that it is becoming quite obvious that he is not getting the nutrition he needs. I tried to take a video that shows him better:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqoI3ED5YiU

[mmorris]

He's looking pretty thin. I'd start off by worming him. I use levamisole (Vermisole).

[mecase]

OK, I've got the Vermisol on order. Hopefully that will do the trick. If that is the problem would it be a safe assumption that all the fish need to be treated?

[Skip]

yes.. it is good idea.. for just a standard bath procedure.. if never done

[mecase]

It has been awhile since I started with my Discus and thought I would post an update. The little guy that had such a hard time finally got well. He has grown some but I'm sure he will never get as large as he could have and is still living in a 20 gal so I can feed him frequently. Two of the others are 6" and the rest are 5" or a little under. Attaching link to video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5WUv9H2rW4