Take a look at my new Juvenile Discus

[gabloo]

Morning Guys,

If you read my other post, I had purchased 6 Discus from bad seller and luckily able to return 5 but had to keep the one that have no issue with it. That guy is the first one in the photo. I know he is stunned and eyes are too big for his body ration. Please take a look at that guy and give comments please. I want to make his life better than what it is now.
I recently purchased 5 2" juvenile from Rick who live near me. He seems to know his discus and a lot of people are buying from him so he must be a good seller. Does anyone of you purchase his discus before?
I have little issue with my babies’ discus.
1. Their fins are always close. Are they shy or am i doing something wrong?
2. How do they look?
3. Their color seems to be a lot darker.
4. Most of my discus doesn’t have round body shape, will they eventually get rounder if i feed them good?
3. Any comments will be appreciate it.

I am trying to feed them 6 times a day with FBW for now. I order a bunch of pellets and flake and also beef heart. They are in 10 g tank but will be move to 55 gallon in a few weeks. Temp is about 88 F. Please let me know how my little guy look.

Thanks in advance

1.
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[moon_knight1971]

Really worried about the fish in pics 3 & 4. The rest look ok. This is a good group to start out with if you are new to discus. Some of their shapes will look better once they hit the 3.5 - 4 inch mark. They will relax more once they get used to you. They tend to do better in groups of 6 or more. Good luck!

Joey!

[goblin321]

The darker fish in pics 3 and 4 look stressed. I would keep an eye on them. I had a dark colored fish in the beginning when i was just getting into discus and she didn't make it. High quality flakes would be great to get their immune system up. What is the PH and maybe some stress away added to the water will help. Good Luck!

[Discus-Hans]

Did you mix the one from the "bad seller" and your new ones direct in the same tank??

Don't want to go into shape etc. but you got something going there, I would contact "Rick" to help you on this one. In my opinion it's one of the tasks of the seller to help you if there are any problems or questions,

Hans

[White Worm]

Unfortunately, it seems as though you have still purchased some low quality discus. Dont know who Rick is but these are some poor looking discus. Lots of clean water and a varied diet is the best you can do and they might round out a little more as they get older.

[Discus-Hans]

Unfortunately, it seems as though you have still purchased some low quality discus. Dont know who Rick is but these are some poor looking discus. Lots of clean water and a varied diet is the best you can do and they might round out a little more as they get older.

Don't want to say direct they are low quality Discus, hard to say when a Discus has the fins down, etc and sure not feeling happy,

Hans

[kevin joseph]

the one in pic 3 is taking a poop.

[vera]

Not looking good :(

[gabloo]

I left them in a dark room for about 12 hours today and when i came back, i saw them swimming around with their fins open. but after i fed them food, some of my guy close their fins again. What could be the reason? They are still shy to me? Could tank size stressing them out?

I put a few aquarium salt whenever i do wc. Will it help relax discus a bit?

Discus_hans - Unfortunately, i did mix them together :(.

[gabloo]

Here some update,

Most of my discus are getting better. I moved them into 20 g tank with bare buttom, i added about 2 tea spons of aquarium salt per gallon and temp is about 85 F. Most of my discus color are a lot lighter now and their fans are open but the little guy from pic 2 and 3 is still in same stage. His/Her color is very dark and fans are not open. Is there anything i can do for that guy? He is still eating very well and swim sometime.

[ericatdallas]

If those are the only two breeders/sellers in your area, it's time to look out-of-area. The first one actually looks the best.

[Discus-Hans]

If those are the only two breeders/sellers in your area, it's time to look out-of-area. The first one actually looks the best.

And is probably the one who infected the rest,

Glad to hear they are doing better,

Hans

[gabloo]

Is there any recommendation for little guy that is not doing well?

[Fourseasonz]

Which city do you live in? I might know this Rick that you are talking about

[gabloo]

I live in san jose. He is from milpitas, he is a good seller tho. When i text him about my issues with discus, he gave me a few tips which worked out pretty well.

[Darrell Ward]

Is your tank cycled? The reason I ask, is the fish in pic. one has gill damage from ammonia. This could explain the others deteriorating condition.

[vera]

+1
and any reason to add aquarium salt ?

[gabloo]

I am not sure whether i can call my tank cycled or not. My tank was planted tank with ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite 0 and ph is about 7.6. However, since i was planning to put discus in BB tank, i removed everything. I do water change every day and my tap water has ammonia, Nitrate 0. If my fish has gill damage, is there a way to treat them?

Vera - People said adding aquarium salt or table salt will help discus less stress, am i wrong?

I am doing everything wrong one after another :I(.

[Vee]

Salt helps with osmotic regulation in the fish, at least according to a writer in Aquarium Fish International. I use 1 tsp per 5 gallons.

[Skip]

I am not sure whether i can call my tank cycled or not. My tank was planted tank with ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite 0 and ph is about 7.6. However, since i was planning to put discus in BB tank, i removed everything. I do water change every day and my tap water has ammonia, Nitrate 0. If my fish has gill damage, is there a way to treat them?


do you know what a CYCLED tank means?

[Vee]

You need to test your aquarium water at the end of the day before a water change to see if your ammonia is spiking. If it is, you need to change 50% water 2x a day, or more, depending on what your levels are. Last year one of my tanks crashed and my ammonia was a constant 5 ppm so I had to change 75% of the water 3 times a day for a couple of days before things started to turn around.

[gabloo]

I m thinking of culling that dark one what do you guys think? Is it too early for me to make that decision? I just don't wan that little guy to infect others.

[Second Hand Pat]

Is your tank cycled? The reason I ask, is the fish in pic. one has gill damage from ammonia. This could explain the others deteriorating condition.

Darrell, how can you tell??

[gabloo]

He was right tho. I checked my water perimeter and its off. It has ammonia at .5ppm and nitrate was at 10. I just did 75 % water change and gonna do it twice a day till everything settle back. Again, should i cull dark color guy?

[ericatdallas]

Salt helps with osmotic regulation in the fish, at least according to a writer in Aquarium Fish International. I use 1 tsp per 5 gallons.

Without getting into the Salt vs No-Salt debate (I'm in the no-salt camp), here's some numbers to think about ...

1 teaspoon of NaCl in 1 gallon of water equals 3000 ppm. So 1 tsp in 5 gallons is 600 ppm! According to Amazon river data I found, the most saline part of the river has 22 ppm, you're nearly busting that by 30 times. The lowest salinity in the river is 400 ppb.

So the most salt you should put is 1 tsp per 100 (hundred) gallons. I know the Discus don't live in the river, but the Amazon river does influence the salinity of the ocean.


The Amazon is responsible for about 20% of the Earth's freshwater entering the ocean.[5] The river pushes a vast plume of freshwater into the ocean. The freshwater, being lighter, overrides the salty ocean, diluting the salinity and altering the color of the ocean surface over an area up to 1,000,000 square miles (2,600,000 km2) large. For centuries ships have reported freshwater near the Amazon's mouth yet well out of sight of land in what otherwise seemed to be the open ocean.

So I would imagine anything that is fed with Amazon water is similiarly influenced. I'm not sure how it works with the Osmotic regulation, as it evolved in a low salinity environment. Another thing about high salinity water is oxygen has a harder time diffusing into it.


Which city do you live in? I might know this Rick that you are talking about

I live in san jose. He is from milpitas, he is a good seller tho. When i text him about my issues with discus, he gave me a few tips which worked out pretty well.

This is the second time I've heard about this "Rick" from Milpitas in two weeks and not in a good way....

[Darrell Ward]

Darrell, how can you tell??

From the swollen, discoloration around the gill area. Classic symptoms of ammonia burn...

[Vee]

"Freshwater fish have a higher internal salt concentration than their aquatic environment. Because of this, freshwater (an area of low salt) naturally tends to move into the fish (an area of high salt)...Therefore, when you increase the salinity of a freshwater system you are actually putting less burden on teh fish to manage its fluid homeostasis, which can help reduce stress on the animal...
-Aquarium Fish International, April 2011, pg. 60

[ericatdallas]

"Freshwater fish have a higher internal salt concentration than their aquatic environment. Because of this, freshwater (an area of low salt) naturally tends to move into the fish (an area of high salt)...Therefore, when you increase the salinity of a freshwater system you are actually putting less burden on teh fish to manage its fluid homeostasis, which can help reduce stress on the animal...
-Aquarium Fish International, April 2011, pg. 60

The reason I don't want to be dragged into a debate about salt? I have yet to see anyone with a definitive answer. This is why I put facts and not conjecture. It's a fact that those are the salinity readings in the Amazon.

If you don't know something, try to do what's worked for millions of years (or however long Discus have been in that environment).

Will salt help, it's possible... could it hurt? Also possible. I think that quote oversimplifies the process... The author fails to mention how much salt? When is it too much? By his simple statement (or what you quoted), he is implying that the more salt the better, therefore, seawater at 10,000 ppm is good for discus? We know there is 'too much' salt for fish (frehswater and marine). In fact, too much salt can be stressful because then you're putting the process in reverse for the fish, an environment it was not evolved for.

[Melissa]

Gabloo, I'm sorry you're having troubles. Although a seller may be good at communicating and answering questions... It appears this seller has sold you fish with issues.... I would not call him a good seller....

If I were you, I would ask for my money back. I usually don't chime in and say things like this when I see a thread with this situation going on... But really, it is a shame that you have had this experience and are forced to begin your discus keeping venture with problems from the start.
Communicate with the seller at this point, see what can be done about taking these fish back. There's no telling what they could be carrying as far as parasites and other health problems so until you get rid of this sickly stock, I would not suggest trying to find better healthier fish yet.

Regarding your question about culling the littlest one, I don't think that would do any good in preventing the spread of his problems to the other fish. They all likely have whatever he has anyway coming from the same source...

[gabloo]

The problem is, It was probably my fault putting two groups of fish form different source together. I was pretty sure the other group had problems but fish from rick was seem to be good until they got into my tank. I will see what rick will do for me. However, the rest are getting better, i will post pics of them in a few mins.


Gabloo, I'm sorry you're having troubles. Although a seller may be good at communicating and answering questions... It appears this seller has sold you fish with issues.... I would not call him a good seller....

If I were you, I would ask for my money back. I usually don't chime in and say things like this when I see a thread with this situation going on... But really, it is a shame that you have had this experience and are forced to begin your discus keeping venture with problems from the start.
Communicate with the seller at this point, see what can be done about taking these fish back. There's no telling what they could be carrying as far as parasites and other health problems so until you get rid of this sickly stock, I would not suggest trying to find better healthier fish yet.

Regarding your question about culling the littlest one, I don't think that would do any good in preventing the spread of his problems to the other fish. They all likely have whatever he has anyway coming from the same source...

[gabloo]

Here the updated photo i took with my phone so not very good quality. Let me know if you see more issue of my discus from photos plz.

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[Darrell Ward]

The problem is, It was probably my fault putting two groups of fish form different source together. I was pretty sure the other group had problems but fish from rick was seem to be good until they got into my tank. I will see what rick will do for me. However, the rest are getting better, i will post pics of them in a few mins.

Yeah, you had, or are maybe still having some water quality issues. Really can't fault the seller IMO. All seem to be showing exposure to ammonia (not surprising) but overall, seem to look better. The dark one probably ain't gonna make it unfortunately, and will likely further go downhill until one morning you find him floating.

[gabloo]

Hey Darrell,

You were totally right about water quality. I did 75 % water change yesterday night and 60 % this morning. Just after those two water change, they seem a lot better. Color are a lot lighter and fins are all out, even the darker one. I will keep on doing water change twice a day. Hopefully, they will get better.


Yeah, you had, or are maybe still having some water quality issues. Really can't fault the seller IMO. All seem to be showing exposure to ammonia (not surprising) but overall, seem to look better. The dark one probably ain't gonna make it unfortunately, and will likely further go downhill until one morning you find him floating.

[Melissa]

How long have you had them?

[gabloo]

Less than 3 weeks


How long have you had them?

[Darrell Ward]

Good luck with them.

[Melissa]

Well, you're definitely on the right track trying to get their water sorted out.
:)
Maybe you've already said, but I was wondering what do you feed them? Are they all eating? Have you seen any white feces? Or have you seen any itching or scratching on airline or other things in the tank?

[gabloo]

At this point, i feed them frozen blood worm. I got beef heart but it's seem to be too big for them to eat. I ordered discus pellet and they are on it way. All of them are eating since the first day, even the darker one. I feed them 6 - 8 times a day.I don't see any white feces. I do see the darker one itching and scratching around. O ya! i do see some sort of white clear color stuff on my darker discus.


Well, you're definitely on the right track trying to get their water sorted out.
:)
Maybe you've already said, but I was wondering what do you feed them? Are they all eating? Have you seen any white feces? Or have you seen any itching or scratching on airline or other things in the tank?

[Darrell Ward]

You'll have to shave, or chop up beef heart into tiny pieces for little ones to eat. At the moment, I would concentrate on the water quality issues first. This is the #1 priority. Any parasite issues can be dealt with later, if they are any.

[gabloo]

I used Salad shooter like the other post recommend. They don't seem to like it or not use to it. Ya i will keep up with my water change.

[Sean Buehrle]

I used Salad shooter like the other post recommend. They don't seem to like it or not use to it. Ya i will keep up with my water change.

I wouldnt feed them too much either .
Its just adding to your problems.

[vera]

Vera - People said adding aquarium salt or table salt will help discus less stress, am i wrong?


Hi Gabloo , aquarium salt is used to adjust water parameters aka Gh etc while table salt is known to remove stress in fish
how are fishes today ? from last photos they were looking much better

[ericatdallas]

Hi Gabloo , aquarium salt is used to adjust water parameters aka Gh etc while table salt is known to remove stress in fish
how are fishes today ? from last photos they were looking much better

Vera, I think you may be thinking of a different product. In the US, aquarium salt is repackaged NaCl and the same thing as table salt (well there is some debate about 'harmful' (to fish) additives to table salt). I'm not sure, but are you thinking about Marine Salt (for salt water tanks)?

[vera]

I'll check Eric but that wat was written on package of aquarium salt

[gabloo]

My discus are a lot better but I sold all of them on craiglist for very cheap. I am going to get some new discus from kenny so i had to rid of those guys. Hopfully whoever get it will take of them. I am kind of sad tho.

[ericatdallas]

My discus are a lot better but I sold all of them on craiglist for very cheap. I am going to get some new discus from kenny so i had to rid of those guys. Hopfully whoever get it will take of them. I am kind of sad tho.

Hahah, in a few days they're going to come on here asking about their new discus :P

Sterilize that tank with bleach before adding the discus from Kenny.

[vera]

Hahah, in a few days they're going to come on here asking about their new discus :P

Sterilize that tank with bleach before adding the discus from Kenny.

LMAO

[vera]

@Gabloo cant go wrong with Kenny Discus ! best of luck

[gabloo]

Should i bleach it?

[Melissa]

YES!!! Bleach the bejesus out of the darn thing.... Kennys fish are clean and healthy... The best of the best. Yu do NOT want them to be exposed to anything that group had....

[ericatdallas]

I would dump the filter media too (or sterilize it). You're going to need to cycle your tank so either wait until next shipment or ask Kenny if he'll prepare a sponge filter for you that you can buy.

Why would you pay a premium for quality discus only to make them just like your previously sick discus? Start from scratch.


YES!!! Bleach the bejesus out of the darn thing.... Kennys fish are clean and healthy... The best of the best. Yu do NOT want them to be exposed to anything that group had....

Do it twice just to make sure :)

For my QT tank, I just sterilized it by putting about two cups of bleach into the tank. You could definitely smell it. I then ran the hot water through it. I then rinsed, repeat. Rinsed again with clean water and drain. Fill and put extra dechlor just in case.

you probably will get away with just once, but hey, why take the chance?

[gabloo]

OKIE!!! I m on it right now. Kenny gonna sell me 3 cycled spong from his tank. So, i don't have to worry about cycling right? Also, i read about RO water, how does that work? Where do i buy it?

[ericatdallas]

You can make RO water yourself with a $100 RO filter and replacement media at regular replacement cycles and sometimes LFS will sell it by the gallon.

Stick with tap water unless you have a good reason for using RO.

You might still experience a mini-cycle but just keep up with your WCs and you'll be fine. If you're getting cycled sponges, definitely sterilize EVERYTHING. While you're at it, throw the nets, siphons, or anything else that made contact with the fish into the tank.

[gabloo]

Its very hard, I have 4 tanks at home :(. 1 75 (turtles), 55 ( planted)10 ( CRS ) and 40 ( upcoming discus ). I only use one small equitment to change water and stuff. I should use seperate equitment for each ha?

The reason i m asking about RO is because, I have some german blue rams and i want to breed them. From what i read online, they need RO water to soften the water. Is there a cheap way to get them?

[ericatdallas]

Its very hard, I have 4 tanks at home :(. 1 75 (turtles), 55 ( planted)10 ( CRS ) and 40 ( upcoming discus ). I only use one small equitment to change water and stuff. I should use seperate equitment for each ha?

The reason i m asking about RO is because, I have some german blue rams and i want to breed them. From what i read online, they need RO water to soften the water. Is there a cheap way to get them?

No, but you should have separate equipment for QT. You could roll the die but then you ....


The problem is, It was probably my fault putting two groups of fish form different source together. I was pretty sure the other group had problems but fish from rick was seem to be good until they got into my tank. I will see what rick will do for me. However, the rest are getting better, i will post pics of them in a few mins.

Then you'll say, "The problem is, I didn't properly clean my equipment..."

[Melissa]

If you want a cheap RO unit.... the cheapest i found was on eBay when i searched "Portable RO unit"...

My unit directly hooks up to the faucet when i want to use it, its very convenient. I should note, you will not want to use 100% RO water. An RO filter strips the water of essential minerals that your Discus and other fish need... I suggest using an RO/tap water mixture to achieve soft enough water for breeding.

Since you are getting by using one set of water changing equipment for your 4 tanks... why not keep on using that equipment for your remaining 3 tanks but to be safe get separate hoses and stuff for your discus tank? You really do need to be careful not to cross contaminate. Not one drop of water should pass between your discus tank and your other tanks if you do it that way.... just a suggestion.

If you are getting cycled filter media from Kenny thats fantastic. I would say to dump or sterilize everything in the tank you're planning on putting them in, and you will not need to worry about cycling your tank then. As Eric said, you may experience a 'mini-cycle' where your water may look cloudy from bacterial blooms and you will need to be careful to watch your water parameters. (Ammonia and Nitrite)

:) So happy you're going with great fish from Kenny!!

[gabloo]

I preordered discus already, can't wait to pick them up. I will post pictures as soon as i get them. I am very excited.

I am not sure my other tanks are affected or not. I have 3 tanks and used same water hose to change water. In one of my planted tank i have rams, tetras, guppies and other fish in it. I don't see them having any issue at all. They tank was totally cycled. I am planning to put rams from that tank to my discus tank, is there a way i can treat them so that they will not carry any diseases with them?

I guess i will hold on to RO unit for now for couple months till my rams and discus are ready to breed.

[strawberryblonde]

I breed my rams in plain old tap water. Unless your water conditions are really extreme you shouldn't have any problems breeding them.

You definitely want to purchase separate equipment for cleaning and maintaining your discus tank. Turtles, in particular, can carry some very nasty germs that don't bother them, but do bother other aquatic animals.

You also need to QT the rams before you put them in with the discus. Since you don't know what caused the problems with your first batch of discus, you have to assume that it could be contamination from sharing equipment with your other tanks.

For now, why don't you concentrate on just getting the discus tank disinfected and setup again, then get the new fish from Kenny and the cycled sponges from him. Once the discus tank has been up and running successfully for a month or two, THEN you can QT the rams and add them to the discus tank.

For me, it just would seem too difficult and risky to try to add the rams to the new discus right off the bat.

[gabloo]

Strawberry - good idea. I will do that then. I just bleached my aquarium, filters, heater and everything that is going to be in my discus tank. I will be putting them in 40 gallon for now. I m selling all my turtles so in a few week, i should have 75 gallon for them.

About QT - I am a bit confuse about how to QT rams. My rams are healthy in my planted tank. Let say after a few months, if i put them in QT tank, they will do fine since they were doing ok in my other tank. The thing that i am worry about is them carrying diease and infect my discus ( if there was any ). So, how would i know whether they are safe to put in my discus tank in QT? Do i supposed to put special setup or medicine?

[biotopica]

Weird